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Oh, I did on the first page with a rifle suggestion. I was just ruminating on another aspect. Back on topic it is. Cheers.
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Oh, I did on the first page with a rifle suggestion. I was just ruminating on another aspect. Back on topic it is. Cheers.
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Good question and when I got hired into the Army Small Cal Weapons Lab and had access to weapons guys that had been in the gov't from late 40s, early 50s whose job was Product Engineering I knew I had a treasure trove of experience which I guess was 400 years combined so I conducted a survey and every one I talked to I asked. "If you were going into a long term situation and you could take any gun you wanted that you had to depend on it working day in and day out for years what would it be?"
Product Engineering will expose you to every negative thing that has come up in the life of a weapon system and you have the complete history of every firearm the gov't has used and every part of every weapon has it's own file and you can pull the file and read the entire history of that part and every change of every weapon and why it was changed. These are called revisions in the business and I have seen drawings that have revisions which are characterized by the alphabet and I have seen drawings from single letters all the way to double letters. For instance you get to Revision Z and you start over with AA;, AB, AC etc.
Just because someone is a gun designer does not mean he realizes how it will be used when it gets to the field. The small arms field starts with designers, then goes in second level development, then goes to test and evaluation and then it goes to the troops and all bets are off as to what happens when the troops get it.
Troops will do things with a weapon that nobody in the above development cycle ever conceived of happening to a weapon.
For instance we had a "Test Platoon" at Aberdeen of troops and we could go down and get some to test the weapon under consideration and talk about getting a education, you just sit back and watch what happens and as the saying goes, "STAND BY FOR NEWS! ! ! ! "
I checked out five troops to shoot the M16A1E1 adopted as the M16A2 and three of the five inserted a loaded magazine in the weapon UPSIDE DOWN in broad daylight! ! ! ! ! One guy could not get his out so I told him to hold the rifle and I jerked him around a bit before the magazine came out.
When I was in Product Engineering we got in a M16 about every four months that had blown up. I watched as my trainer and a metallurgist looked things over and there are a number of things you check such as bolt hardness, barrel hardness, barrel socket hardness, locking lug integrity of socket and bolt etc etc.
The third one that came in I did the investigation on and it was the worst I have yet to see. The upper receiver was about 3" wide, the lower receiver was about 2" WIDE, the magazine was launched from the weapon so hard that the magazine went into the forearm of the troop shooting it. The barrel was undamaged.
Every last one said the same weapon and it wasn't a AR.
When I got to Product Engineering the M16 engineer in charge said the M16 already had over 550 changes since it was adopted and by now I suspect that number has passed 700. There were all kinds of hearings about all kinds of problems that surfaced and there were problems that surfaced engineering never got the word on.
For instance a new NRA Rep was hired for SC and GA and we got to be friends which wasn't but a few months and he came down terminal and passed quickly. He told me in Nam they found a entire Marine Fire Team dead and all 12 weapons were hopelessly jammed. I asked another Marine if he had heard of that and he said he had and worse he didn't expand on. Everyone pretty well knows about propellant problems but there were many more.
For instance when I was testing I failed the system at 6000 rounds. The barrels were gone, actually way past gone. They were right at rejection at 4800 rounds. The USMC requirement was for 12,000 rounds. The was a conference and decision was made to run a matrix and 140,000 rounds was shot up in 14 days
without a day off and we found out the cause.
The ;dispersion requirement (most people call accuracy") is acceptance is 4.5" or less at 100 yards. Most rifles deliver about 3" to 4" at 100 yards. Reject is anything over 7.2" at 100 yards or yaw cards show 15 degrees or more or velocity drops 200 FPS or more. Very few systems exceed the velocity drop.
I had five misfires in 244,000 rounds and that shook the house so to speak. Five misfires are allowed in 5 million rounds.
Product Engineering will expose you to every negative thing that has come up in the life of a weapon system and you have the complete history of every firearm the gov't has used and every part of every weapon has it's own file and you can pull the file and read the entire history of that part and every change of every weapon and why it was changed. These are called revisions in the business and I have seen drawings that have revisions which are characterized by the alphabet and I have seen drawings from single letters all the way to double letters. For instance you get to Revision Z and you start over with AA;, AB, AC etc.
Just because someone is a gun designer does not mean he realizes how it will be used when it gets to the field. The small arms field starts with designers, then goes in second level development, then goes to test and evaluation and then it goes to the troops and all bets are off as to what happens when the troops get it.
Troops will do things with a weapon that nobody in the above development cycle ever conceived of happening to a weapon.
For instance we had a "Test Platoon" at Aberdeen of troops and we could go down and get some to test the weapon under consideration and talk about getting a education, you just sit back and watch what happens and as the saying goes, "STAND BY FOR NEWS! ! ! ! "
I checked out five troops to shoot the M16A1E1 adopted as the M16A2 and three of the five inserted a loaded magazine in the weapon UPSIDE DOWN in broad daylight! ! ! ! ! One guy could not get his out so I told him to hold the rifle and I jerked him around a bit before the magazine came out.
When I was in Product Engineering we got in a M16 about every four months that had blown up. I watched as my trainer and a metallurgist looked things over and there are a number of things you check such as bolt hardness, barrel hardness, barrel socket hardness, locking lug integrity of socket and bolt etc etc.
The third one that came in I did the investigation on and it was the worst I have yet to see. The upper receiver was about 3" wide, the lower receiver was about 2" WIDE, the magazine was launched from the weapon so hard that the magazine went into the forearm of the troop shooting it. The barrel was undamaged.
Every last one said the same weapon and it wasn't a AR.
When I got to Product Engineering the M16 engineer in charge said the M16 already had over 550 changes since it was adopted and by now I suspect that number has passed 700. There were all kinds of hearings about all kinds of problems that surfaced and there were problems that surfaced engineering never got the word on.
For instance a new NRA Rep was hired for SC and GA and we got to be friends which wasn't but a few months and he came down terminal and passed quickly. He told me in Nam they found a entire Marine Fire Team dead and all 12 weapons were hopelessly jammed. I asked another Marine if he had heard of that and he said he had and worse he didn't expand on. Everyone pretty well knows about propellant problems but there were many more.
For instance when I was testing I failed the system at 6000 rounds. The barrels were gone, actually way past gone. They were right at rejection at 4800 rounds. The USMC requirement was for 12,000 rounds. The was a conference and decision was made to run a matrix and 140,000 rounds was shot up in 14 days
without a day off and we found out the cause.
The ;dispersion requirement (most people call accuracy") is acceptance is 4.5" or less at 100 yards. Most rifles deliver about 3" to 4" at 100 yards. Reject is anything over 7.2" at 100 yards or yaw cards show 15 degrees or more or velocity drops 200 FPS or more. Very few systems exceed the velocity drop.
I had five misfires in 244,000 rounds and that shook the house so to speak. Five misfires are allowed in 5 million rounds.
Last Edited:
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AR or 10/22.
u know how many people stocked up on .223/5.56 and 22LR ammo from 2008-2016? the ammo is everywhere. same with AR mags
u know how many people stocked up on .223/5.56 and 22LR ammo from 2008-2016? the ammo is everywhere. same with AR mags
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OH yeah, I have heard folks say they have 50K stored in for years.but it boils down to whether your weapon will take high round numbers and be like a lab, wagging and waiting for something else to eat.
Hate to tell you folks but ARs are like women, they can't stand to be dirty and if you come in and dirty something up you are gonna hear about it. The AR will just shut up/shut down.
At Aberdeen the cleaning schedule was every 600 rounds or at the end of the day's firing schedule. If I shot 1300 rounds it got cleaned at 600, 600 and 100.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but gas operated systems are going to let you down if you don't practice TLC.
I laid off HP competition for a few years while reworking this old house (1855) we bought when I retired and we came home. I was amazed and how many people were carrying them to the line and the real shocker was the first relay came off the line on Viale at Perry which was about 115 shooters and about 75 of them went to the Army/Marine vans with stoppage problems. That line wasn't finished and the second relay shot and another 75 went and lined up at the vans. I did not have a camera but would have loved a pic of that.
After the pit change I went to the vans and asked the armorers what was breaking and they all said the ARs went down/ stopped because they had not been cleaned properly. Again if you don't pay attention to your wife what is going to happen to you? For you single guys that means you don't eat, for your rifle it means the same thing.
If you use the wrong lube it is not going to let you get by long. I lube mine with Mobil 1 0-20 Synthetic Motor oil. I started telling folks about this years ago and I haven't had anyone say they found anything better. About two months after I wrote that on CMP site I noticed the AMU shooters were lubing their rifles with it. I don't use CLP on anything with over one part and it used to be good for rust prevention but apparently the forumula has changed as I wiped down a tin can with it and sat it outside and it rusted THAG within a couple weeks.
The best thing about Mobil 1 is that it does not run from heat and keeps the carbon soft that accumulates on the bolt to the point you can just wipe it off.
Remember one thing BESIDES ANTI GUN POLITICIANS CARBON IS our WORST ENEMY"
We used CLP in the cold room at Aberdeen (-65 below 0) and only weapon that fired with it in it was a M1911A1. We warmed the room up and finally figured out about -20 was a low as you could go. We had it in no 10 cans about 2" deep in the room. You could put a brush in it, let the brush go, walk to the big thick refrigerated door, open it, shut it and walk to the observation window and the brush handle had not touched the side of the can yet. It was like honey in the winter time.
For general all around lube/cleaning I used Ed's Red. Make up 1.5 gals at a time. I do not add acetone, just 1/3rd K1 kerosene or diesel fuel, 1/3 mineral spirits and 1/3rd Mercon/Dexron Trans fluid. Never had a problem with it. A phd chemist I know ran the calculations and told me it looked like it would be good to about -50 below zero but alas I have not tested it. I do know I left it in a 30 cal barrel stored muzzle down for 14 months and borescoped it and it was still wet.
Ed Harris is the father of it and a long time friend and he told me about it maybe 1 years ago and I made some up and never looked back.
Bottom line is to keep a AR going you are going to have to carry patches, patches and more patches and maybe a quart of Ed's Red in your pack and you need a cleaning rod (preferrably without joints). GI cleaning rods have probably ruined 1 million bores it not 3 million.
One of my best friends is Airborne and he brought a Delta Group Sgt home with him and I met them at a match. This guy had been in Group for years and I watched him clean his AR after the match and it reminded me of a doctor cleaning out a bad wound before he sewed the victim up. His AR was absolutely sanitary when he got through but he worked on it for 45 minutes I guess. He also had surgical instruments to get into the action and other places.
Bottom line folks if you have a AR and are going to bet your life on it you are going to have to CLEAN it continually or SHE will stag on you.
Next problem you are going to find is the lower receiver is not going to hold up as long as a MILSPEC receiver. They are Martin Hard Coated which for lack of a better term armor coats them. I am not aware of any after market receivers that are as durable as a MILSPEC receiver.
If you take a fall on an AR you are also likely to break the rifle in half. There is a ring on the back of the lower receiver the buffer tube screws into that will break off and it has had it until you get a new receiver. I dropped one in the cold room and it broke in half.
You have better get the parts you are likely to lose when you take it apart. For instance if you lose the take down pin (cotter pin) which is very easy to do your system has just died. You might be able to keep it going with a finish nail cut the same length.
If you use MILSPEC ammo it will probably group at 4" initially. Depending on your rate of fire if you don't overheat the barrel your initial dispersion will start to open up at 2400 rounds. At 3600 rounds you will see a marked increase. At 4800 rounds you will be getting groups of 6" to 7". Rejection is 7.2" at 100 yards. If you use handload ammo with stick propellant you may get it to 12,000 rounds if you keep your barrel clean and stay away from heavy bullets. Match shooters with 55 gr. bullets change barrels about 2000 rounds. If you try and run the heavy bullets it will be more often. The Army Marksmanship unit changes barrels at 700 rounds using heavy bullets.
You want to clean your barrel as soon as you quit shooting while the barrel is warm preferably. If you let the barrel cool down the propellant residue gets hard and of course is carbon which is hardest substance known. If you clean your barrel quickly while it is still warm it is easy to get out. If you let barrel cool off and shoot it say the next day or much later the same day the propellant residue will be impacted into the bullet jacket as it goes down bore and it is removing metal all the way to the muzzle. Once the muzzle opens your accuracy has had it.
Take a 3X5 parallel card and draw a black circle on it and shoot your rifle at it from 25 yards. A new barrel will make nice round holes. As the barrel wears your bullet holes will become elongated (egg shaped). Its time to get a new barrel as your bullets are yawing which is detrimental to dispersion which will also be getting larger..
www.shootersforum.com
You have to watch your trigger pin and hammer pin holes for elongation. They will tend to get "egg shaped" and your internal parts relationships tend to change. At depot level they have a <> (diamond shaped gage) and if it is a NO GO which means if the gage will enter the hole on either side the receiver is trashed. Now couple that with the strong possibility the holes might not be correctly located in the first place and...........................
Now MILSPEC parts? What does that mean. In reality it means the part will dupe the engineering drawings IN EVERY DETAIL from dimensions, coating, etc and the vendor submits parts to Rock Island Arsenal for gaging to MIL STD 105. They will pull like 100 parts, unpack them and submit them to gaging. If they fail the entire lot is returned to the vendor and he does not get paid BUT IS ALLOWED TO SELL THE PARTS TO RECOUP HIS EXPENSES.; A good friend used to be THE procurement contracting officer for spare parts and he told me he estimates 95% of the parts floating around out here won't meet the drawings for some reason.
That is just a few of the problems. Ever heard the term WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND IT IS US? My alteration is WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND IT IS ANY GAS OPERATED WEAPON because I am not aware of any that will sustain lack of TLC and stand by you thus you are your worst enemy and your weapon will agree.
Hate to tell you folks but ARs are like women, they can't stand to be dirty and if you come in and dirty something up you are gonna hear about it. The AR will just shut up/shut down.
At Aberdeen the cleaning schedule was every 600 rounds or at the end of the day's firing schedule. If I shot 1300 rounds it got cleaned at 600, 600 and 100.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but gas operated systems are going to let you down if you don't practice TLC.
I laid off HP competition for a few years while reworking this old house (1855) we bought when I retired and we came home. I was amazed and how many people were carrying them to the line and the real shocker was the first relay came off the line on Viale at Perry which was about 115 shooters and about 75 of them went to the Army/Marine vans with stoppage problems. That line wasn't finished and the second relay shot and another 75 went and lined up at the vans. I did not have a camera but would have loved a pic of that.
After the pit change I went to the vans and asked the armorers what was breaking and they all said the ARs went down/ stopped because they had not been cleaned properly. Again if you don't pay attention to your wife what is going to happen to you? For you single guys that means you don't eat, for your rifle it means the same thing.
If you use the wrong lube it is not going to let you get by long. I lube mine with Mobil 1 0-20 Synthetic Motor oil. I started telling folks about this years ago and I haven't had anyone say they found anything better. About two months after I wrote that on CMP site I noticed the AMU shooters were lubing their rifles with it. I don't use CLP on anything with over one part and it used to be good for rust prevention but apparently the forumula has changed as I wiped down a tin can with it and sat it outside and it rusted THAG within a couple weeks.
The best thing about Mobil 1 is that it does not run from heat and keeps the carbon soft that accumulates on the bolt to the point you can just wipe it off.
Remember one thing BESIDES ANTI GUN POLITICIANS CARBON IS our WORST ENEMY"
We used CLP in the cold room at Aberdeen (-65 below 0) and only weapon that fired with it in it was a M1911A1. We warmed the room up and finally figured out about -20 was a low as you could go. We had it in no 10 cans about 2" deep in the room. You could put a brush in it, let the brush go, walk to the big thick refrigerated door, open it, shut it and walk to the observation window and the brush handle had not touched the side of the can yet. It was like honey in the winter time.
For general all around lube/cleaning I used Ed's Red. Make up 1.5 gals at a time. I do not add acetone, just 1/3rd K1 kerosene or diesel fuel, 1/3 mineral spirits and 1/3rd Mercon/Dexron Trans fluid. Never had a problem with it. A phd chemist I know ran the calculations and told me it looked like it would be good to about -50 below zero but alas I have not tested it. I do know I left it in a 30 cal barrel stored muzzle down for 14 months and borescoped it and it was still wet.
Ed Harris is the father of it and a long time friend and he told me about it maybe 1 years ago and I made some up and never looked back.
Bottom line is to keep a AR going you are going to have to carry patches, patches and more patches and maybe a quart of Ed's Red in your pack and you need a cleaning rod (preferrably without joints). GI cleaning rods have probably ruined 1 million bores it not 3 million.
One of my best friends is Airborne and he brought a Delta Group Sgt home with him and I met them at a match. This guy had been in Group for years and I watched him clean his AR after the match and it reminded me of a doctor cleaning out a bad wound before he sewed the victim up. His AR was absolutely sanitary when he got through but he worked on it for 45 minutes I guess. He also had surgical instruments to get into the action and other places.
Bottom line folks if you have a AR and are going to bet your life on it you are going to have to CLEAN it continually or SHE will stag on you.
Next problem you are going to find is the lower receiver is not going to hold up as long as a MILSPEC receiver. They are Martin Hard Coated which for lack of a better term armor coats them. I am not aware of any after market receivers that are as durable as a MILSPEC receiver.
If you take a fall on an AR you are also likely to break the rifle in half. There is a ring on the back of the lower receiver the buffer tube screws into that will break off and it has had it until you get a new receiver. I dropped one in the cold room and it broke in half.
You have better get the parts you are likely to lose when you take it apart. For instance if you lose the take down pin (cotter pin) which is very easy to do your system has just died. You might be able to keep it going with a finish nail cut the same length.
If you use MILSPEC ammo it will probably group at 4" initially. Depending on your rate of fire if you don't overheat the barrel your initial dispersion will start to open up at 2400 rounds. At 3600 rounds you will see a marked increase. At 4800 rounds you will be getting groups of 6" to 7". Rejection is 7.2" at 100 yards. If you use handload ammo with stick propellant you may get it to 12,000 rounds if you keep your barrel clean and stay away from heavy bullets. Match shooters with 55 gr. bullets change barrels about 2000 rounds. If you try and run the heavy bullets it will be more often. The Army Marksmanship unit changes barrels at 700 rounds using heavy bullets.
You want to clean your barrel as soon as you quit shooting while the barrel is warm preferably. If you let the barrel cool down the propellant residue gets hard and of course is carbon which is hardest substance known. If you clean your barrel quickly while it is still warm it is easy to get out. If you let barrel cool off and shoot it say the next day or much later the same day the propellant residue will be impacted into the bullet jacket as it goes down bore and it is removing metal all the way to the muzzle. Once the muzzle opens your accuracy has had it.
Take a 3X5 parallel card and draw a black circle on it and shoot your rifle at it from 25 yards. A new barrel will make nice round holes. As the barrel wears your bullet holes will become elongated (egg shaped). Its time to get a new barrel as your bullets are yawing which is detrimental to dispersion which will also be getting larger..
This is why you need a muzzle erosion gage.
www.shootersforum.com
You have to watch your trigger pin and hammer pin holes for elongation. They will tend to get "egg shaped" and your internal parts relationships tend to change. At depot level they have a <> (diamond shaped gage) and if it is a NO GO which means if the gage will enter the hole on either side the receiver is trashed. Now couple that with the strong possibility the holes might not be correctly located in the first place and...........................
Now MILSPEC parts? What does that mean. In reality it means the part will dupe the engineering drawings IN EVERY DETAIL from dimensions, coating, etc and the vendor submits parts to Rock Island Arsenal for gaging to MIL STD 105. They will pull like 100 parts, unpack them and submit them to gaging. If they fail the entire lot is returned to the vendor and he does not get paid BUT IS ALLOWED TO SELL THE PARTS TO RECOUP HIS EXPENSES.; A good friend used to be THE procurement contracting officer for spare parts and he told me he estimates 95% of the parts floating around out here won't meet the drawings for some reason.
That is just a few of the problems. Ever heard the term WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND IT IS US? My alteration is WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND IT IS ANY GAS OPERATED WEAPON because I am not aware of any that will sustain lack of TLC and stand by you thus you are your worst enemy and your weapon will agree.
Last Edited:
^^This^^
Also, no way in hell i would trust my life and the lives of my loved ones to a 10/22
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Ditto. Decent small game rifle. Kind of a fun plinker if you're into rimfires (I'm not, personally). But for defending the homestead; nope!
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Eh, maybe, but we live in the forest and I've suppressed our 10/22 so it does not call in a lot of attention. Spotting rabbits and such on our land is not uncommon.
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Holy crap, how many rounds does that thing hold?!Certainly happy to see someone, that's for sure!
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Certainly happy to see someone, that's for sure!
Haha. To answer the question, standard 25-round BX-25.
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Regarding the seemly never ending debate on should you or should not use a .22 during SHTF / to defend yourself etc....
To discount any firearm , as useless is foolish.
If all I had was a .22 firearm...I ain't just going to curl up and wait to die , 'cause that is all that I have.
Use what you have , to the best of your ability.
Some folks due to various reasons may only be able to own or shoot with a .22 firearm....
Like any other firearm , it it simply a matter of knowing your firearm and skill with it....this along with the willingness to use it , is what is needed here.
To be a bit grim here...
I have seen the .22 in use during a modern conflict and have seen men die from being hit with it.
In both cases here , rifles were used...one was a .22 bolt action trainer , the other a bolt action sporting rifle...distances were in the 75-100 yard range.
Nevertheless....
My biggest issue with the sole use of a .22 firearm for SHTF and self defense is the ammo itself.
I have had way too many failures to fire or feed with various .22 ammo to rely on some brands or types.
If you are going to use a .22 for SHTF / self defense....I suggest that once you find a brand or type of .22 ammo that you shoot well and functions well , in your firearm .....stock up on that ammo.
Its just an Aw Damn moment when at the range having fun , when you hit a dud .22 round or get a failure to feed , etc...but that same thing can mean life or death at different time.
Andy
To discount any firearm , as useless is foolish.
If all I had was a .22 firearm...I ain't just going to curl up and wait to die , 'cause that is all that I have.
Use what you have , to the best of your ability.
Some folks due to various reasons may only be able to own or shoot with a .22 firearm....
Like any other firearm , it it simply a matter of knowing your firearm and skill with it....this along with the willingness to use it , is what is needed here.
To be a bit grim here...
I have seen the .22 in use during a modern conflict and have seen men die from being hit with it.
In both cases here , rifles were used...one was a .22 bolt action trainer , the other a bolt action sporting rifle...distances were in the 75-100 yard range.
Nevertheless....
My biggest issue with the sole use of a .22 firearm for SHTF and self defense is the ammo itself.
I have had way too many failures to fire or feed with various .22 ammo to rely on some brands or types.
If you are going to use a .22 for SHTF / self defense....I suggest that once you find a brand or type of .22 ammo that you shoot well and functions well , in your firearm .....stock up on that ammo.
Its just an Aw Damn moment when at the range having fun , when you hit a dud .22 round or get a failure to feed , etc...but that same thing can mean life or death at different time.
Andy
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Good point. rimfire can't compete with center fire for reliability. From my experience it seems to me that the factors for rimfire not firing are #1 quality of the ammo. F.e. we have all probably shot cci mini mags and bulk cheapest Remington and can see a clear difference both in terms of failure to fire and not cycling due to inconsistent loads.
#2 (both ranked equally) are how it has been handled and age. Jostling rimfire ammo around imo does have a real affect on them, in contrast to centerfire. Age also has an affect on some types of ammo. Couple age with jostling around and they can really reduce the % that will fire.
#3 is a more indirect effect but "dirty" ammo, after many rounds, becomes a big deal. I have some guns that can go almost indefinitely when shooting clean burning and coated ammo. The same gun when using " dirty" ammo (meaning lots of residue including unburnt powder) can start to have failures fairly quickly. Not sure how much bullet coating plays into this also. Coatings definitely affect cleanliness of the barrel and a suppressor but not sure of impact other than that.
- Thread Starter
- #137
Reposting the OP scenario here on page 7 because who really checks back to page 1?
This thread isn't about YOUR thought of a SHTF scenario . It's about this one:
- Economic collapse a-la Great Depression
- You're out of work and about to be homeless
- You're not alone and have others to care for
- What you have with you needs to fit in the back of a pickup and possibly a backpack if you lose the truck
- You need to plan for not having the cash to buy gas anymore (no mobility / extremely limited mobility)
You've already sold off most of the gun collection for the cash for necessities and to stave off homelessness. But, which rifle(s) do you keep?
This thread isn't about YOUR thought of a SHTF scenario . It's about this one:
- Economic collapse a-la Great Depression
- You're out of work and about to be homeless
- You're not alone and have others to care for
- What you have with you needs to fit in the back of a pickup and possibly a backpack if you lose the truck
- You need to plan for not having the cash to buy gas anymore (no mobility / extremely limited mobility)
You've already sold off most of the gun collection for the cash for necessities and to stave off homelessness. But, which rifle(s) do you keep?
- Thread Starter
- #138
See above scenario.
Member 18201
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That scenario has minimal bearing on my situation, and hopefully I never have to be near another corpse.
Interesting premise for most on this forum, I surmise.
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