JavaScript is disabled
Our website requires JavaScript to function properly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser settings before proceeding.
Said it once, twice, three times. You need a pump shotgun with cylinder bore. The idea isn't engaging targets at many ranges, it's getting the effort out of there alive. You can put slugs, buck, bird, lead, steel, flechette, anything through them. Hunting, fighting, door breaching, you name it. Yes capacity is limited. I don't care.
 
I was often issued a Colt 9mm SMG where I worked. Nice little gun, light and easy to handle. There were a couple of drawbacks. One was effective range. There was a point where it lost accuracy. I don't recall the exact range but it was closer than I thought. Best guess would be 115 yards. The other concern was, simply, a lack of power. It was good in a house or shooting across a street. It was excellent where over-penetration was a concern.

The time came when we were issued M-4s. We breathed a sigh of relief. The M-4 is a genuine 500 yard rifle.

The downside to everything is noise. Firearms are unbelievable loud in a restricted space. I don't mean irritating or annoying. I mean impeding or debilitating. My vote would be for anything you can get a sound suppressor on and shoot decently. Being useable in a vehicle would be a big plus.
 
Said it once, twice, three times. You need a pump shotgun with cylinder bore. The idea isn't engaging targets at many ranges, it's getting the effort out of there alive. You can put slugs, buck, bird, lead, steel, flechette, anything through them. Hunting, fighting, door breaching, you name it. Yes capacity is limited. I don't care.
I just don't see the point of a shotgun. Capacity is SEVERELY limited compared to both of my choices, effective range is limited, they are slow on follow up shots, big, heavy, and cumbersome.

Sure, you can shoot slugs, bird shot, and buckshot through them, but what if you have your gun full of bird shot, then suddenly a threat appears that you need to engage at 100 yard? How long is it going to take you to empty the gun of the 5, 6, or 7 rounds of whats in it, then reload it with the appropriate ammo?

My girlfriend can pick up my Extar or AR and use it effectively immediately, but the 12ga pump hurts her and she refuses to shoot it.

Shotguns make sense only as a spare firearm that cover a lot of bases, but make zero sense as a primary SHTF weapon, IMHO.
 
I just don't see the point of a shotgun. Capacity is SEVERELY limited compared to both of my choices, effective range is limited, they are slow on follow up shots, big, heavy, and cumbersome.

Sure, you can shoot slugs, bird shot, and buckshot through them, but what if you have your gun full of bird shot, then suddenly a threat appears that you need to engage at 100 yard? How long is it going to take you to empty the gun of the 5, 6, or 7 rounds of whats in it, then reload it with the appropriate ammo?

My girlfriend can pick up my Extar or AR and use it effectively immediately, but the 12ga pump hurts her and she refuses to shoot it.

Shotguns make sense only as a spare firearm that cover a lot of bases, but make zero sense as a primary SHTF weapon, IMHO.
I hear your opinion and respectfully disagree. And I'm appreciative you at least read my post :D
 
Maybe these guys for a SHTF situation...
AD71C951-1B36-41A3-A1FD-9D8E38279289.jpeg 84E44FAE-63A9-4ABD-9E7C-3259823F4051.jpeg
 
I just don't see the point of a shotgun. Capacity is SEVERELY limited compared to both of my choices, effective range is limited, they are slow on follow up shots, big, heavy, and cumbersome.

Sure, you can shoot slugs, bird shot, and buckshot through them, but what if you have your gun full of bird shot, then suddenly a threat appears that you need to engage at 100 yard? How long is it going to take you to empty the gun of the 5, 6, or 7 rounds of whats in it, then reload it with the appropriate ammo?

Don't see the point? Maybe a couple moments with this video might change your mind. The firepower one can bring to bear is astounding.



Capacity? Watch the video at 5:24 when dude changes his mag out. You never seen a Vepr-12 with a 25 round mag have you? It isn't much larger, if at all, vs an AR-15, and yes, your girlfriend would certainly dislike shooting it as would anyone downrange as well. One does have less range and likely more weight with a full 25 round drum in particular, but a good part of the USA people hunt deer with the ammo just fine. What kind of range would you need in the city? And why would you load up with birdshot during an urban SHTF time? And vice versa? Regardless, a mag fed shotgun can change that ammo out in seconds if you got caught in the wrong place with the wrong ammo.

regardless, I suspect The Heretic nailed it upthread. It's the one you have one you when you need it that counts and is most important.
 
Last Edited:
Don't see the point? Maybe a couple moments with this video might change your mind. The firepower one can bring to bear is astounding.



Capacity? Watch the video at 5:24 when dude changes his mag out. You never seen a Vepr-12 with a 25 round mag have you?
I've shot one and it was unreliable, heavy, and not something I would want to rely on if SHTF.

Sorry, not going to buy that a 12ga is better than a PCC or M4 in terms of reliability, capacity, or maneuverability.

GZSAdRcuRLiiwH6IN8xdkQ.jpeg
 
A photography comment/quote I once read: The best camera is the one you have with you.

So...

What gun are you keeping with you? Can you consistently get rounds on target with that gun? Are you proficient with that gun in case of a problem (e.g. 'stovepipe' due to a failure to eject FTE)?
I got tired of the bunker so I put another wheelbarrow on top of my existing tactical wheelbarrow, much like the hermit crab, and now can get about pretty good with the assistance of two ski poles and my arms poking out.
 
I'd weigh them and see which is lighter. The AR breaks down into a smaller size if needed. I'm personally concerned with how much ammo weighs more than the gun it fires. I've got a CMMG banshee in .45 that is super quiet suppressed. But 500 rounds of .45 ACP isn't something you can carry in a normal backpack but .223 is. So, I'd choose the AR. Only advantage I see with the 9mm is that its considered a pistol for purposes of having it readily available inside your vehicle. The CMMG is my "hotel not expecting trouble and it fits in my bag" gun and my AR-15 is my sleeping in the desert after exploring an abandoned mine. Both are unwieldily in a vehicle. If I'm sleeping in my truck it would be my Glock 17 with the big mag or (try not to laugh) my semi-auto MAC-10. Not horribly unwieldy, in a small space and quiet.

But seriously give total weight of everything you feel you need in a serious situation a good logical look.
 
lol, I live in PDX and even I'm not bothering to carry an AR.

Float your own boat how you see fit though.
My business (not my real estate office) is a couple minutes away from the protests in Portland and I feel totally safe walking around downtown, even with my kids. And I'm not always armed. If I am carrying, it's just my P238 in my pocket. I haven't been downtown after midnight with my kids (before or after Floyd) and I doubt I would ever have a reason to.

Sorry, to disappoint. I'm not at home every night waiting for someone to kick down my door. :confused:
 
I went with the CZ 457 Lux in 22wmr.

We have a back up, second, CZ 457 Lux in 22wmr (My husband is using that now.) and another CZ 457 Lux in 22lr. We still have the sweet CZ 455 Lux in 22lr that I mentioned in this thread too.

The extra - 2nd 30-30 rifle was sold.

My husband has several rifles (CF and RF) to choose from and he carries a pistol on a daily basis too.

Cate
 
I'd weigh them and see which is lighter. The AR breaks down into a smaller size if needed. I'm personally concerned with how much ammo weighs more than the gun it fires. I've got a CMMG banshee in .45 that is super quiet suppressed. But 500 rounds of .45 ACP isn't something you can carry in a normal backpack but .223 is. So, I'd choose the AR. Only advantage I see with the 9mm is that its considered a pistol for purposes of having it readily available inside your vehicle. The CMMG is my "hotel not expecting trouble and it fits in my bag" gun and my AR-15 is my sleeping in the desert after exploring an abandoned mine. Both are unwieldily in a vehicle. If I'm sleeping in my truck it would be my Glock 17 with the big mag or (try not to laugh) my semi-auto MAC-10. Not horribly unwieldy, in a small space and quiet.

But seriously give total weight of everything you feel you need in a serious situation a good logical look.

I agree with the 'weight' factor even if I do not own your types of guns.

I always considered some SHTF situations even as a younger/stronger lady (Middle aged at the time.) when it came to a rifle and/or a handgun PLUS ammunition. (I no longer own, carry or shoot handguns.)

It is something to consider even in a traveling situation and not 'running' for the hills. Been there - done that when traveling a lot on a regular basis especially out here and packing SEVERAL firearms in a truck, suv, van or in a car for a time frame = past tense. I did the same thing when camping too.

I always considered the ammo weight with my firearms and how I would store them while I traveled many miles on a regular basis while looking at real estate combined with camping trips.

Besides, I consider my regular home my safe place aka my home base and the only way that I would leave it in a SHTF situation would be due to a forest fire, any type of fire, a flood or an earthquake. And I would try to get back to my home as quickly as I could even if it meant camping out on my own land.

Cate
 
I'd weigh them and see which is lighter. The AR breaks down into a smaller size if needed. I'm personally concerned with how much ammo weighs more than the gun it fires. I've got a CMMG banshee in .45 that is super quiet suppressed. But 500 rounds of .45 ACP isn't something you can carry in a normal backpack but .223 is. So, I'd choose the AR. Only advantage I see with the 9mm is that its considered a pistol for purposes of having it readily available inside your vehicle. The CMMG is my "hotel not expecting trouble and it fits in my bag" gun and my AR-15 is my sleeping in the desert after exploring an abandoned mine. Both are unwieldily in a vehicle. If I'm sleeping in my truck it would be my Glock 17 with the big mag or (try not to laugh) my semi-auto MAC-10. Not horribly unwieldy, in a small space and quiet.

But seriously give total weight of everything you feel you need in a serious situation a good logical look.

Breaks down quickly and easily (one button). Reassembles quickly and easily. Small size both assembled and broken down. Light weight. Fifty rounds per mag. Ammo is half the weight of a 9mm or 5.56x45. Light recoil. Better range than a 9mm or .45. The Five Seven shoots the same ammo and has 20-30 rd mags.

20190209_221409.jpg
 
Breaks down quickly and easily (one button). Reassembles quickly and easily. Small size both assembled and broken down. Light weight. Fifty rounds per mag. Ammo is half the weight of a 9mm or 5.56x45. Light recoil. Better range than a 9mm or .45. The Five Seven shoots the same ammo and has 20-30 rd mags.

View attachment 732266

I love my 5.7's but ammo is not common so ones only going go have what they start with. Since they are very difficult to reload, reloading is not a viable option to keep the supply coming. Also read several accounts of it taking 5+ hits to bring down a target since most of the rounds just over penetrate and punch a bunch of little holes in the bad guy, vrs stopping them. I think w/o the fun switch to put more lead down range our PS90s are limiting our defense use of them.

Reminds me need to get that Form one sent in for mine, short barrel has been sitting in the drawer for too long for it.
 
I love my 5.7's but ammo is not common so ones only going go have what they start with. Since they are very difficult to reload, reloading is not a viable option to keep the supply coming. Also read several accounts of it taking 5+ hits to bring down a target since most of the rounds just over penetrate and punch a bunch of little holes in the bad guy, vrs stopping them. I think w/o the fun switch to put more lead down range our PS90s are limiting our defense use of them.

Reminds me need to get that Form one sent in for mine, short barrel has been sitting in the drawer for too long for it.

If you shoot them with the FMJ, it won't be effective, but the LF/HP and the BT are effective IMO. It is certainly not as effective as 5.56, but everything is a compromise.

I got 5.7 guns because I have one family member who has a health problem where recoil and firearm/ammo weight are a problem, and the health problem won't be getting better, it will be getting worse. All three of us have health issues where firearm/ammo weight and physical stamina are an issue, and for myself and one other, it will only get worse as time goes on. So these are our get home guns.

Once home, there are more effective firearms in 5.56 and 7.62 that can be used in stationary defense, the 5.7 guns will be used for what they are designed for - while doing other tasks (food gathering, etc.) where we are close to home and are not expecting encounters, but want/need a firearm to fight our way back to a stationary defensive position.
 
If you shoot them with the FMJ, it won't be effective, but the LF/HP and the BT are effective IMO. It is certainly not as effective as 5.56, but everything is a compromise.

I got 5.7 guns because I have one family member who has a health problem where recoil and firearm/ammo weight are a problem, and the health problem won't be getting better, it will be getting worse. All three of us have health issues where firearm/ammo weight and physical stamina are an issue, and for myself and one other, it will only get worse as time goes on. So these are our get home guns.

Once home, there are more effective firearms in 5.56 and 7.62 that can be used in stationary defense, the 5.7 guns will be used for what they are designed for - while doing other tasks (food gathering, etc.) where we are close to home and are not expecting encounters, but want/need a firearm to fight our way back to a stationary defensive position.

They do shoot light that is for sure. I do get it for health issues. For friends and family members that can not be behind recoil/concussion I have been having them shoot suppressed with great success. My father for his heart can not take the concussion anymore and shooting with a can allows him to shoot again.
 
They do shoot light that is for sure. I do get it for health issues. For friends and family members that can not be behind recoil/concussion I have been having them shoot suppressed with great success. My father for his heart can not take the concussion anymore and shooting with a can allows him to shoot again.

For the one family member the recoil is mostly for the handgun, but also for the rifle. I imagine that person could handle an AR in 5.56 for recoil, but the health issue has to do with muscle control/strength, so weight and balance are an issue too - the PS90 being a bullpup the balance is better for someone with muscle control issues.

I and the other member have no problem with recoil, but all three of us will have stamina issues. With 5 mags of ammo we get a good loadout of 250 rds for the rifle and 5 mags for the pistol ads another 120 rds - with much less weight than other gun/ammo options.

The only thing is that the PS90 is not a rifle that you want to be shooting a lot - it wears relatively quickly in several places (the stock wears out). Not going to be a big issue for us, but if a person is going to be shooting a thousand or more rounds a year, plan on having a spare stock on hand because eventually you will need to replace it. The Five Seven is made with stouter polymer, but if one has the factory adjustable sights they will probably want to replace them with better engineered sights as the factory sights have a reputation for coming loose.

Ammo cost is a concern, but I gathered 7K rounds before the ammo prices doubled. I have enough practice ammo (FMJ) to last, and more than enough self-defense ammo for SHTF given its role.
 
Unless it turns into Mad Max I'm happy with my Marlin 357 backed up by a normal capacity (11+) handgun. Sorry. . . I refuse to call normal capacity handguns "High Capacity".

If conditions were worse that general civil unrest I'd use my Mini-14, Good capacity 223 but looks generic and doesn't draw as much attention as my AR would.

My AR is a heavy barrel Olympic Match Colt so it's heavy and is better used as a longer range gun.

Also have a couple M1 Carbines as a light weight option.

Honestly, for just general civil unrest even a .22 or .22 mag rifle will be enough to keep the ANTIFA types at bay as they are cowards.
 

Upcoming Events

Tillamook Gun & Knife Show
Tillamook, OR
"The Original" Kalispell Gun Show
Kalispell, MT
Teen Rifle 1 Class
Springfield, OR
Kids Firearm Safety 2 Class
Springfield, OR

New Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Back Top