Which primary arm for potential SHTF?

[HaveGun]

I still think the chance of violence reaching my little area is pretty slim, but I do work in a nearby college town. Violence could conceivably break out and I might have to grab something other than my P365 to throw in the SUV when heading to work or for supplies. I mean, things look pretty bad all over the US and I don't see it getting better no matter who wins in November. I'm currently shopping for a tactical vest and am upping my ammo supply, as well as dusting off my tactical range toys. But for the vest, wondering which long arm to kit it for.

So, I have a number of firearms and don't need any more. That may be blasphemy to some, but I have all the bases covered. The two that it comes down to for violence in city limits is either an AR in .223 or an Extar EP-9, which takes 9mm Glock mags. Both have the same capacity (33 rounds vs. 30). Both have the same goodies. Bothe have been 100% in functioning and reliability. Both carry well and are extremely accurate. Both have the same manual of arms. I also have about the same amount of ammo on hand for either, though I am set up for reloading 9mm and not .223.

It really comes down to 9mm out of a 7.5" barrel, or .223 out of a 16" barrel. And also, the Extar would use the same mags as my SHTF sidearm; a Gen 5 MOS G19.

Would be interested in hearing different thoughts on both. I also have an AR-10 set up as well, but it's a mountain SHTF rifle and not suitable for urban environments.

These are my two choices:

Read More

 

[andreys21]

EXTAR. - Smaller package. Great for URBAN CQB and within a vehicle, whereas AR is too long and overpenetrates. I dont expect you'd be dealing with ARMED ambushes so no need for distance work. Remember, your number one priority is to avoid conflict first and foremost. Running away safely is best option.

Nutnfancy, wether you're a fan or not, put out 2 videos on kit options for LOW and HIGH probability of armed conflict. check em out, he makes a good case for PCCs.

- HPAC

- LPAC

 

[rangerstx4]

16in AR. Nothing wrong with the 9mm, but the 16in ar with defense ammo is dumping a whole lot more energy into the threat.

 

[Member 52301]

Hello Have Gun,

There is nothing wrong with saying or writing that you may not need some firearms. It is an individual decision to make and no person can make that choice for you other than YOU.

Do you plan on mainly keeping and using only 9mm and .223 caliber firearms or keeping one or two extra calibers in a handgun, rifle or shotgun to your firearms?

I would choose the .223 rifle OVER the 9mm rifle. I would keep the PISTOL on your body too. How much factory ammunition do you have in your vehicle when you travel? ADDED MORE.

I would CHOOSE a RIFLE over a handgun if the poop really HIT the fan whether it was in a 22lr (Here!), 22wmr (None here now.) or in a 30-30 caliber (Here!).

(I am debating about one firearm (Rifle!) right now myself. My husband wants to give me one of his rifles but it is a heavier wood/steel SWEET CF lever action rifle but if the poop hits the fan - I would be better off using it even if I was not holding it 24/7 compared to my main CZ 455 Lux 22lr bolt action rifle.)

Take care.

Old Lady Cate

 

[Steelturtle]

In a very urban environment like the city? The Extar for sure. The magazine and ammo compatibility alone is a huge seller.

That said. If you are in Suburbia the the AR is a better choice for the longer effective range.

Basically how far away can the bad guys be? And how much cover is there?

 

[orygun]

An AR pistol in .223/5.56 would be my choice for urban issues.

 

[cookie]

A pistol is easy to carry concealable and won't draw attention like a rifle. A Glock in 9mm would be ideal. And be easier to control as in retain in a mob situation . Beware of the internet experts.

 

[turbo_vanner]

lol, I live in PDX and even I'm not bothering to carry an AR.

Float your own boat how you see fit though.

 

[cookie]

Hello Have Gun,

There is nothing wrong with saying or writing that you may not need some firearms. It is an individual decision to make and no person can make that choice for you other than YOU.

Do you plan on mainly keeping and using only 9mm and .223 caliber firearms or keeping one or two extra calibers in a handgun, rifle or shotgun to your firearms?

I would choose the .223 rifle OVER the 9mm rifle. I would keep the PISTOL on your body too. How much factory ammunition do you have in your vehicle when you travel? ADDED MORE.

I would CHOOSE a RIFLE over a handgun if the poop really HIT the fan whether it was in a 22lr (Here!), 22wmr (None here now.) or in a 30-30 caliber (Here!).

(I am debating about one firearm (Rifle!) right now myself. My husband wants to give me one of his rifles but it is a heavier wood/steel SWEET CF lever action rifle but if the poop hits the fan - I would be better off using it even if I was not holding it 24/7 compared to my main CZ 455 Lux 22lr bolt action rifle.)

Take care.

Old Lady Cate

How many shots does the 30/30 hold and how long does the 30/30 take to reload. If we are bench racing? Ar or AK would be a better choice off the top of my head . Lots of magazines.

 

[Steelturtle]

A pistol is easy to carry concealable and won't draw attention like a rifle. A Glock in 9mm would be ideal. And be easier to control as in retain in a mob situation . Beware of the internet experts.

Vs both hands on the Extar? I respectfully disagree. As for concealing I run a Savior Bag SBR Bag that looks like a backpack but has quick deployment loops and a pistol pocket that makes quick access easy too

 

[cookie]

Vs both hands on the Extar? I respectfully disagree. As for concealing I run a Savior Bag SBR Bag that looks like a backpack but has quick deployment loops and a pistol pocket that makes quick access easy too

That is fine you disagree.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I still think the chance of violence reaching my little area is pretty slim, but I do work in a nearby college town. Violence could conceivably break out and I might have to grab something other than my P365 to throw in the SUV when heading to work or for supplies. I mean, things look pretty bad all over the US and I don't see it getting better no matter who wins in November. I'm currently shopping for a tactical vest and am upping my ammo supply, as well as dusting off my tactical range toys. But for the vest, wondering which long arm to kit it for.

So, I have a number of firearms and don't need any more. That may be blasphemy to some, but I have all the bases covered. The two that it comes down to for violence in city limits is either an AR in .223 or an Extar EP-9, which takes 9mm Glock mags. Both have the same capacity (33 rounds vs. 30). Both have the same goodies. Bothe have been 100% in functioning and reliability. Both carry well and are extremely accurate. Both have the same manual of arms. I also have about the same amount of ammo on hand for either, though I am set up for reloading 9mm and not .223.

It really comes down to 9mm out of a 7.5" barrel, or .223 out of a 16" barrel. And also, the Extar would use the same mags as my SHTF sidearm; a Gen 5 MOS G19.

Would be interested in hearing different thoughts on both. I also have an AR-10 set up as well, but it's a mountain SHTF rifle and not suitable for urban environments.

These are my two choices:

View attachment 707784

I would have both personally, but if I had to choose only one it would be the .223 no question. 1100 ft lbs compared to 400, less recoil with AR, and extar is not small enough at 22.5" overall length to make that much difference.

If it were a ppc with a folding or collapsable stock such as PTR 9kt, Sp5k, or Stribog which are all about 14" then they are much more easily concealable. Even with a suppressor they are not super long if the brace is folding or collapsible.

Stribog (8" barrel) with folding brace

 

[cookie]

Tiny can be held close to the body and not a whole lot of leverage potential. Pull away from the person trying to disarm you and the barrel has a great chance of pointing at the person trying to disarm you.

 

[Jonnyuma]

The potential for having to maneuver inside of your own vehicle makes the Extar's size pretty attractive.

I'm also a fan of ammo/mag sharing... my SHTF gear includes two XDMs, big and little. They share everything, which is why I went down that road. The 4.5 also has a .40 barrel/spring/mags in case 9mm becomes scarce (as it always does).

All that is to say: doubtful you'd use the Extar within your vehicle since you also have a handgun. That makes the Extar's size (vs the AR) almost a non issue. The ammo sharing and mag compatibility lead me to give it (Extar) the nod for "away from home" carry.
If I had one, it's what I'd do.

 

[Member 34319]

lol, I live in PDX and even I'm not bothering to carry an AR.

Float your own boat how you see fit though.

What, you don't want to spend hours upon hours preparing for every tiny unlikely scenario?

I always appreciate your responses, at least I'm not the only one!

 

[Slagiatt]

For a truck gun, an ar pistol in 5.56. Legal to keep loaded in the rig. Mine has a 1-6 scope on it. Super quick target acquisition with both eyes open at 1 power, but if i want to stretch it out a little i can crank up to 6. Ready to rock in my rig with 40+1 and a spare mag.

 

[Camelfilter]

These conversations are always interesting!

However I've come to the resolve that the only tools(s) that matter, are the ones we have at hand. When we NEED them.

Waxing hypotheticals are fantastic, in the sense that if I have what fits whichever hypothetical AT HAND, whenever whichever hypothetical occurs.

So, in short, I have most all of our bases covered. Concealed carries, open carries, PDW's, mid ranges & long range tools. For us. And we practice with ALL of them.

To simply pick one, as "the best", and solely train with those tools would (IMO) be doing us a grave disservice. Should something untoward arise.

One never knows what the future may hold, nor what circumstance you'd be in.

To outright eliminate any tool because of what you THINK might happen, or be of use, is a bad idea.

Playing keyboard commando:

A heavy distance gas gun could certainly be of benefit in an "Urban" environ. Off the top of my head, overwatch, sight-lines down streets/avenues, less barrier blind etc etc.

Sure, a PDW/mid range would also be of use. Perhaps of more use in most "Urban" situations, but not all. They certainly wouldn't let a group or individual "own" the area as much as heavy/distance guns would.

Now if you foresee yourselves clearing buildings and such "routinely" (I don't, but again one never knows), then sure, heavy/distance/larger normally would get trumped by smaller/lighter tools.

So, in short, I honestly don't have a single best choice which would cover a hypothetical. It's kind of like being in true DGU situation, with a pocket pistol as the tool. I'd wager most folks would have "wished" they had had something else that day. But they used the tool they had...

 

[revjen45]

How many shots does the 30/30 hold and how long does the 30/30 take to reload. If we are bench racing?

The .30/30, like most repeating shotguns, can be reloaded while in action.
So - If you are carrying 35 rds. with 6 in the rifle/shotgun you can potentially fire 41 rds. before empty.

 

[oremike]

My primary arm is my 300 win mag as in if I need to grab and go that the one going with me. My truck gun is my Glock 22. If I wanted to keep something under the back seat in case I got stuck in a snow bank or whatever it would be my stainless Rossi carbine in 44 Mag. My underlying point is that everyone's perceived needs are different. I'm not a city boy so don't worry much about urban combat, I hope my Glock will give me enough room to get out of town and back to my 300 Winny.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

It would depend on just what S hit the fan....

If all I wanted to do was eat , have a rifle that I could count on to make that hit when needed , and for defense against a small group of individuals ....then I would pick my .54 Hawken Rifle copy.

I know this rifle inside and out , so to speak...it has kept me fed , won more than a few rifle matches for me and I know a few tricks to reload it quickly.

Like most things firearm related...what one chooses is very personal .
Their choice often reflects their likes in firearms and shooting style.

Also as pointed out by Camelfilter SHTF may occur when you do not have "your primary arm" for SHTF or even firearm of choice.
No need to curl up and wait to die , because SHTF caught you without your favorite firearm....
The best thing for you when SHTF happens...is to be adaptable to moment....
'Cause SHTF will play by its own rules , not yours.
Andy