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In regards to post #40
Well no offense taken...
But I really know about the M21 already... as I used one in combat and not just on a range.
I was speaking only of the M21 not a M14....as well.

Legends , facts and myths aside...I wouldn't count myself as dead or having a inaccurate , unreliable rifle , if all I had was a M14.

No offense meant in my reply here...
Andy
 
Certainly none taken. I wasn't saying having a M14 meant you were undergunned, just that I wouldn't count on the typical off the rack M14 of those days as being a target rifle.

A battle rifle, sure, but it was still outdated. That doesn't mean I think its bad, otherwise I would never suggest a person get a JRA M14.
 
Challenge accepted @ron
Would be a pleasure to shoot " across the course" with you and see how things play out!:) might be better if you brought out a N.M. though, make things more fair! Even better if some one also wanted to bring a Garand along!:D
 
Guess no ticket for me... Feel left out. :(

Oh well, I can keep enjoying the built in hand warmers (steel handguards*) here. o_O


*You missed out on seeing me shoot with oven mitts! <|:•)
 
No offense, but the M21 was not the typical M14. Similar to the Mosin Nagant, accurate samples would be used as "snipers" (when they decided to start having them that is). Originally accuracy standard was 5.5" and they would ship the rifle out, that would change (for the worse) until they replaced the M14. That doesn't mean they were all bad, some were accurate (otherwise the M21 would not exist). But as far as standard issue went, I would discourage holding your breath for an accurate one.

Legends have myths and facts. The idea that all M14s were accurate, however, is on the myths side.

As is the legend about all ARs being accurate and all AKs being inaccurate.

If a person goes back and reads various reviews of ARs early on (70s and 80s), off the shelf ARs were not that accurate (2-3 MOA) and AKs slightly less accurate.

Granted, both ARs and M1As have had more potential for accuracy, but no small part of that is because people spent time working on how to get the best accuracy out of them - including military armorers.

I had a very custom M1A (bullpup) that would shoot 0.5 MOA in my hands, and I am nothing special - a lot of people can shoot better than I can, especially now with my eyesight going. But it was a $3K rifle with a customer barrel setup (tensioned), weighed 12 pounds and it was created specifically as a sniper rifle by people who knew what they were doing (McMillan and AWC).
 
Both my M-1As and BM-59 shoot quite well, and are not very finicky with good ammo, but are no where near as reliable as others. The BM-59 is more accurate then the "Standard" M1A, but less then the N.M. and the FAL, which is so close as is comes down to what I had for breakfast which will preform slightly better that day. My Garand will also shoot well in this case! Especially with the better 180 gr high B.C. ammo!
 
As is the legend about all ARs being accurate and all AKs being inaccurate.

If a person goes back and reads various reviews of ARs early on (70s and 80s), off the shelf ARs were not that accurate (2-3 MOA) and AKs slightly less accurate.

Granted, both ARs and M1As have had more potential for accuracy, but no small part of that is because people spent time working on how to get the best accuracy out of them - including military armorers.

I had a very custom M1A (bullpup) that would shoot 0.5 MOA in my hands, and I am nothing special - a lot of people can shoot better than I can, especially now with my eyesight going. But it was a $3K rifle with a customer barrel setup (tensioned), weighed 12 pounds and it was created specifically as a sniper rifle by people who knew what they were doing (McMillan and AWC).
For the most part that's why I don't buy into "inherently more accurate" when it should be read "potentially more accurate." If they wanted to, they could make pretty accurate AKs, but the AK is accurate enough for what it is.

Accurate enough for DMRs to be based on the AK/RPK design! To be honest, if it wasn't for the sanctions I would have ended up with a Vepr in .308 instead of a FAL. But on the plus side, I have a FAL.
 
M1 Garand!!! 30-06 power

6737739B-0F89-4DF4-88F9-6639D1D88740.png
 
Challenge accepted @ron
Would be a pleasure to shoot " across the course" with you and see how things play out!:) might be better if you brought out a N.M. though, make things more fair! Even better if some one also wanted to bring a Garand along!:D
okay sounds good. We'll have a good time burn some powder. I'll take a look at the schedule at Douglas Ridge. There's a across the course match coming up soon. Have you ever gone across the course before. In high-power is unsupported no bipod.;)
 
Short of there being a rail, there's really no way to use a bipod on the FAL to begin with. The FALs with a bipod are generally not shot with the bipod deployed as its detrimental to accuracy, for civilian use the bipod is just for appearance and to fill in the gaps in the handguard.
 
Shot my M1 this weekend at the DRRC service rifle match.:D Next weekend at DRRC
March 24 Saturday is a Highpower Clinic. Sunday March 25, is a reduced coarse Clinic match
@ 200 yards. The Cascade League is geared for beginners. Each new shooter has a coach.:rolleyes:
I will shoot and help coach on Sunday.:) April 15 Across the Course 200/300/600 yards
at DRRC. http://www.ossa.org/uploads/2/5/3/2/25326702/2018_highpower_schedule_r4.pdf
Carl Haggland is the contact person for Highpower. He is the Oregon State Director.
They loan rifles and ammo to juniors. I hope you won't feel bad when a 14 year old
girl beats both of us.:confused::confused::confused:
Highpower
 
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I can't read the whole thread at once! :confused: I have owned and/or used M1 M1A FALs, AKs, AR Stoner designs of various "marks", CETME, H&K, mini 14, etc etc... I do not see the hate on the M1 or the M14. Unmitigated horsebubblegum if I must say it... ALL of the designs have arguable issues and frankly only the AK is well-nigh fail-safe. The loose M14 flash suppressor is a non-starter, all it takes is a quick tightening with a wrench.. mine have been so tight as to resist coming off even when I wanted to... The magazine-well issue is another non-starter, ya rock the mags in and with a bit of practice it is done without thinking, same as with the Kalash... Truly, compared to other designs the M14 is and was at it's inception dated but it is a hellofa rifle, probably the most accurate of the bunch, if not the most rugged in the field. AND IIRC it wasnt M14 barrels being bent, but rather the M16A1 of Mattie Mattel fame:rolleyes: with the pencil barrel that had the issue of bending.... hence the H-bar of more recent use. Scope mounting was easy, there is a threaded hole on the left side of the receiver made to take a threaded knob which holds the proper mount tight and easily removed.
Yes they are heavy when tricked out with mount and scope and one of the reasons I sold the last of mine not long ago and picked up a Colt M-forgery, much easier for an old goat to carry around. Nothing wrong with the "platform" itself IME, YMMV!
Too much, man, let it all hang out!:s0035:
 
The M-14 made a great replacement for both the M-1 Garand and the BAR which is what it was designed for. At one time I took 264 Rack Grade M-14s to the Range and qualified Expert with all but 4 of them and I was shooting all the way out to 500meters as that was Standard at the time. Shortly after that the Standard was changed to 300meters because the M-16A1 had become "THE" issue Rifle. The pop-up targets had to be adjusted to the much lighter impact of the .223 as well as reducing the range.
 
I shot an M1 Garand a lot and had vey little trouble with it other than disliking the clip charge. In the Marines in Viet Nam I was issued a early M16 and quickly found it to be a piece of junk and detrimental to my health. If it wasn't kept perfectly clean it jammed and the round was too light. A good rifle doesn't need to have the bolt seated with your thumb. I came across an M14 and carried it until I rotated. It pulled me out of numerous tight places and never failed. If you know your weapon, you know how to put a mag in it without screwing around. The M16 isn't even in the same league as the M14 in any way. My second favorite weapon in combat was the ubiquitous AK47.
 
Bayonets are a thing of the past, none of my modernized M14s wear them. Update your M14 / M1A with a gas lock front sight base and a DC Vortex flash suppressor. The overall length is reduced, and the Vortex is much more effective that the original design.
IMG_4971.JPG
 
I can't read the whole thread at once! :confused: I have owned and/or used M1 M1A FALs, AKs, AR Stoner designs of various "marks", CETME, H&K, mini 14, etc etc... I do not see the hate on the M1 or the M14. Unmitigated horsebubblegum if I must say it... ALL of the designs have arguable issues and frankly only the AK is well-nigh fail-safe. The loose M14 flash suppressor is a non-starter, all it takes is a quick tightening with a wrench.. mine have been so tight as to resist coming off even when I wanted to... The magazine-well issue is another non-starter, ya rock the mags in and with a bit of practice it is done without thinking, same as with the Kalash... Truly, compared to other designs the M14 is and was at it's inception dated but it is a hellofa rifle, probably the most accurate of the bunch, if not the most rugged in the field. AND IIRC it wasnt M14 barrels being bent, but rather the M16A1 of Mattie Mattel fame:rolleyes: with the pencil barrel that had the issue of bending.... hence the H-bar of more recent use. Scope mounting was easy, there is a threaded hole on the left side of the receiver made to take a threaded knob which holds the proper mount tight and easily removed.
Yes they are heavy when tricked out with mount and scope and one of the reasons I sold the last of mine not long ago and picked up a Colt M-forgery, much easier for an old goat to carry around. Nothing wrong with the "platform" itself IME, YMMV!
Too much, man, let it all hang out!:s0035:
It was accurate if QC was there or an armorer fixed it. They had so many issues from the factories in regards to accuracy they had much more looser standards with the M14 than they did the M1 Garand (they didn't do that just to do it either). That is not to say the potential wasn't there, just that it definitely needed kinks worked out.

My issue with the M14 was the adoption of 7.62 NATO instead of an intermediate cartridge when the rest of the world was wanting to change, as they realized most of the ones shooting weren't capable of taking full advantage of the rifle rounds. Then the U.S, when shown the FAL in .280 British, said that we must have a rifle round. Then Churchil came in and wanted a standard round as well, so the intermediate cartridge concept died for a few years.

The people capable of taking advantage of the rifle rounds are/were not the majority...
 

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