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Yes, I'm serious. It startles me a bit to know that you are too.

The law of the land stands. You don't have to like it, you do everything you can to change it, but in the meantime, you abide by it or you suffer the consequences.
So we shouldn't feel sorry for people who are forced to make these choices? The concept I am attempting to refute here is that we should apparently feel GOOD, or almost worse nothing, that this man was forced to choose between being entirely defenseless and dying or being seriously injured by people breaking into his home, or breaking the law and living but going to prison.

At the end of the day I don't care how you or others feel about this I guess, but I sure as hell feel sorry for everyone in this world who is forced by law to be defenseless in the face of violence and evil. You can go on being callous and relish in others misery or whatever you are doing, I do not subscribe to that method of thought and for being so uncaring for my fellow human.
 
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So we shouldn't feel sorry for people who are forced to make these choices? The concept I am attempting to refute here is that we should apparently feel GOOD, or almost worse nothing, that this man was forced to choose between being entirely defenseless and dying or being seriously injured by people breaking into his home, or breaking the law and living but going to prison.

At the end of the day I don't care how you or others feel about this I guess, but I sure as hell feel sorry for everyone in this world who is forced by law to be defenseless in the face of violence and evil. You can go on being callous and relish in others misery or whatever you are doing, I do not subscribe to that method of thought and for being so uncaring for my fellow human.
I do feel badly for those who live in places where all guns have been taken. The people there who vote asked for this. The ones who did not like it sadly have to go along. I have all my life carried at work. Often knowing full well that if I ever had to use the weapon I would be out of a job. I was of course willing to make that trade off. If I had been fired over it I would not have expected anyone to feel sorry for me, it was my choice.
 
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So we shouldn't feel sorry for people who are forced to make these choices? The concept I am attempting to refute here is that we should apparently feel GOOD, or almost worse nothing, that this man was forced to choose between being entirely defenseless and dying or being seriously injured by people breaking into his home, or breaking the law and living but going to prison.

At the end of the day I don't care how you or others feel about this I guess, but I sure as hell feel sorry for everyone in this world who is forced by law to be defenseless in the face of violence and evil. You can go on being callous and relish in others misery or whatever you are doing, I do not subscribe to that method of thought and for being so uncaring for my fellow human.
You can feel however you want, but don't expect me or anyone else to feel the same way. Just because someone else has a different perspective doesn't make them callous.

Again, it sucks he went through what he did, but again, decisions have consequences.

Feelings...nothing more than...feelings....
 
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Sorry, but we have enough problems with our rights being attacked here in the good 'ol USA for me to worry or even care about what happens in other countries.
Ummm, that's what's coming HERE. Read the story, it progressively happened the same way there, one mass shooting at a time.

I've told people who say they'll just keep their guns even after they are illegal, what will you do when you have to use it and they send you to prison for life over it, based on this EXACT story.
 
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Ummm, that's what's coming HERE. Read the story, it progressively happened the same way there, one mass shooting at a time.

I've told people who say they'll just keep their guns even after they are illegal, what will you do when you have to use it and they send you to prison for life over it, based on this EXACT story.
:s0092: All I can hope for is that for every one person who uses a gun they kept anyway after they were taken and ends up in jail for it, at least 10 of the people who voted for it will be victims of the criminals they wanted to "protect".
 
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I believe a healthy concept to remember is that we are all uniquely human and react to messages differently. For the OP @clearconscience it obviously had an effective reaction. For others, they might be mildly offended (likely a better word choice) or turned off by this type of message. As an instructor, facilitator, communicator, I've learned that you need to be able to say something about five different ways to effectively reach an audience. It's not right verses wrong, it is just what resonates with each individual.


Yes, this. Those of us how are passionate about freedoms and liberty are vastly outnumbered by people who want to stop by Dutch Bros. on their way to work, put in their eight hours, crack a beer or glass of wine when they get home and watch TV or scroll FB. Choosing not to be ignorant comes with the added "stress" of a call to action (about a myriad of issues).

Agree, but nose deep, as in where the top of the useless mask sits.
Yep we're blowing bubbles already.
 
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1) "So, what I hear you saying is, he should have killed the 1st burglar before he was able to get outside, kill the 2nd, and then bury them under the crawl space of his house."
Considering the outcome he couldn't have been any worse off.

2) "Sadly that is the kind of story the media is NOT interested in."
Not only are they not interested, but they would actively suppress it.

3) To the comrade in the video: BFYTW
 
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Long story... can you compress it into a 30sec tiktok video?

Anyway...in this particular Situation it would be better to shoot to wound and let them run off and don't call the police I guess. Or well yeah... don't let them get away and bury them in the crawlspace 🙄
 
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Hire McCauley Culkin to goon-proof your house. Keep a camera nearby and say that you were filming a sequel when an accident occurred. OSHA matter now. :s0033:
 

CLT65

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Yes, I'm serious. It startles me a bit to know that you are too.

The law of the land stands. You don't have to like it, you do everything you can to change it, but in the meantime, you abide by it or you suffer the consequences.
I haven't been following the whole thread, just thought I'd throw my 2c in, for what it's worth. Probably not where you were going with this, but I remember a couple decades ago when a couple of young American gals were arrested in a Muslim country, by the Taliban perhaps? I forget the specifics. They were accused of proselytizing and were sentenced to death. As I recall, they were missionaries, being missionaries in a Muslim country, well aware of the consequences of their actions yet they felt led to do it anyway. They knew the consequences but I still felt bad for them. I had a coworker at that time who opined that he didn't feel bad for them at all, because "They knew the law, and the consequences for violating it."

Just because someone runs afoul of the law of the land, doesn't mean we can't feel badly for them, depending on the circumstances. IMHO, to just say "They knew the law, so screw 'em" is very callous.

On the other hand, I remember the story in the original post, and as I recall there was more to it. IIRC, the homeowner wasn't quite so pure and innocent as the story portrays.

That said, I'm reminded slightly of another story I heard through a friend. Apparently a friend of his got in some trouble over a gun he shouldn't have had (NFA item). He showed it to an acquaintance who thought it was cool and even shot it, but turned around and turned him in for it. When questioned by mutual friends as to why, he said that he really didn't have any problem with him having it, as he wasn't any kind of menace to society, and he thought that people should generally be able to have them anyway, but "the law is the law" so he was obligated to report it.

By the way, had the guy been my friend and showed it to me, I would have advised him to get rid of it immediately, as NFA stuff is serious business and I don't want ANYTHING to do with that kind of trouble, but unless he was some kind of danger I wouldn't have dutifully run down and turned him in. I expect that quite a few people would though.
 

OldBroad44

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"Wake up" , is the part of the cheesy , after school special story that lost me.
If 2 armed criminals are already in my house I'm done. Having a gun isn't going to change that. My wife might be able to throw a beer bottle or 2 at them, but I take around 40 minutes to get 1 foot on the floor anymore.
I keep my EDC within reach from bed and also do dry fire drills from bed. Did so decades before I got to where it takes me at least 30 seconds to get out of bed. If two armed criminals got in my house at night and I heard them before they reached the bedroom, I'd figure odds would favor me. Only one guy at a time could approach down the hall. And he would have to expose himself at the room door and look, while I would be waiting with gun already pointed in the right direction. Of course, i might end up hurt or dead. No guarantees. But that would be true even if I were fifty years younger. Having a gun would change the odds quite a bit as long as you have use if one hand/arm and vision good enough to see.
 

Mathias

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Was sent this in an email, and it gave me a sick feeling



Half-awake, and nearly paralyzed with fear, you hear muffled whispers.

At least two people have broken into your house and are moving your way.
With your heart pumping, you reach down beside your bed and pick up your shotgun.
You rack a shell into the chamber, then inch toward the door and open it...
In the darkness, you make out two shadows, One holds something that looks like a crowbar.
When the intruder brandishes it as if to strike, you raise the shotgun and fire.
The blast knocks both thugs to the floor.
One writhes and screams while the second man crawls to the front door and lurches outside.
As you pick up the telephone to call police, you know you're in trouble.
In your country, most guns were outlawed years before, and the few that are privately owned are so stringently regulated as to make them useless.
Yours was never registered.. Police arrive and inform you that the second burglar has died.
They arrest you for First Degree Murder and Illegal Possession of a Firearm.
When you talk to your attorney, he tells you not to worry: authorities will probably plea the case down to manslaughter.
"What kind of sentence will I get?" you ask. "Only ten-to-twelve years,” he replies, as if that's nothing.
"Behave yourself, and you'll be out in seven."
The next day, the shooting is the lead story in the local newspaper.
Somehow, you're portrayed as an eccentric vigilante while the two men you shot are represented as choirboys. Their friends and relatives can't find an unkind word to say about them..
Buried deep down in the article, authorities acknowledge that both "victims" have been arrested numerous times.
But the next day's headline says it all: "Lovable Rogue Son Didn't Deserve to Die."
The thieves have been transformed from career criminals into Robin Hood-type pranksters..
As the days wear on, the story takes wings.
The national media picks it up, then the international media. The surviving burglar has become a folk hero.
Your attorney says the thief is preparing to sue you, and he'll probably win.
The media publishes reports that your home has been burglarized several times in the past and that you've been critical of local police for their lack of effort in apprehending the suspects. After the last break-in, you told your neighbor that you would be prepared next time. The District Attorney uses this to allege that you were lying in wait for the burglars. A few months later, you go to trial.
The charges haven't been reduced, as your lawyer had so confidently predicted.
When you take the stand, your anger at the injustice of it all works against you..
Prosecutors paint a picture of you as a mean, vengeful man.
It doesn't take long for the jury to convict you of all charges.
The judge sentences you to life in prison.
This case really happened.
On August 22, 1999, Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk,England, killed one burglar and wounded a second.
In April, 2000, he was convicted and is now serving a life term…
How did it become a crime to defend one's own life in the once great British Empire ? It started with the Pistols Act of 1903.
This seemingly reasonable law forbade selling pistols to minors or felons and established that handgun sales were to be made only to those who had a license.
The Firearms Act of 1920 expanded licensing to include not only handguns but all firearms except shotguns..
Later laws passed in 1953 and 1967 outlawed the carrying of any weapon by private citizens and mandated the registration of all shotguns.
Momentum for total handgun confiscation began in earnest after the Hungerford mass shooting in 1987. Michael Ryan, a mentally disturbed man with a Kalashnikov rifle, walked down the street shooting everyone he saw.
When the smoke cleared, 17 people were dead.

The British public, already de-sensitized by eighty years of "gun control", demanded even tougher restrictions. (The seizure of all privately owned handguns was the objective even though Ryan used a rifle.)

Nine years later, at Dunblane, Scotland, Thomas Hamilton used a semi-automatic weapon to murder 16 children and a teacher at a public school.
For many years, the media had portrayed all gun owners as mentally unstable, or worse, criminals.
Now the press had a real kook with which to beat up law-abiding gun owners.
Day after day, week after week, the media gave up all pretense of objectivity and demanded a total ban on all handguns.
The Dunblane Inquiry, a few months later, sealed the fate of the few sidearm's still owned by private citizens.
During the years in which the British government incrementally took away most gun rights, the notion that a citizen had the right to armed self-defense came to be seen as vigilantism.
Authorities refused to grant gun licenses to people who were threatened, claiming that self-defense was no longer considered a reason to own a gun.
Citizens who shot burglars or robbers or rapists were charged while the real criminals were released.

Indeed, after the Martin shooting, a police spokesman was quoted as saying, "We cannot have people take the law into their own hands"
All of Tony Martin's neighbors had been robbed numerous times, and several elderly people were severely injured in beatings by young thugs who had no fear of the consequences. Martin himself, a collector of antiques, had seen most of his collection trashed or stolen by burglars.

When the Dunblane Inquiry ended, citizens who owned handguns were given three months to turn them over to local authorities.

Being good British subjects, most people obeyed the law. The few who didn't were visited by police and threatened with ten-year prison sentences if they didn't comply.

Police later bragged that they'd taken nearly 200,000 handguns from private citizens.

How did the authorities know who had handguns?
The guns had been registered and licensed.Kind of like cars. Sound familiar? WAKE UP AMERICA; THIS IS WHY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS PUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT IN OUR CONSTITUTION.
As I have said in the past, before you shoot anyone, assume that you will be spending the rest of your life in prison if you pull the trigger. Maybe you won't but the possibility that you will is becoming more of a reality with every day that passes.

828b6f7311c7b5e1.jpeg
 
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......and then he went to the garage for a good shovel and dug a deep hole in the corner of the yard.

ever notice how these stories go badly after you read " ...called 911"

heard a story years ago about a fella walking home from a bar, confronted by a mugger with a knife demanding his wallet. He promptly pulled out a pistol and shot him in the leg, and continued walking home.
 
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Well this is where were headed, some places its already here.
You are correct, this should be a wake up call to all gun owners to get off the bubblegumming couch and get involved!!!
They think that they have too much to loose (monetarily), just wait till they have to surrender guns and can’t legally protect themselves nor their family…
 
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OldBroad44

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......and then he went to the garage for a good shovel and dug a deep hole in the corner of the yard.

ever notice how these stories go badly after you read " ...called 911"

heard a story years ago about a fella walking home from a bar, confronted by a mugger with a knife demanding his wallet. He promptly pulled out a pistol and shot him in the leg, and continued walking home.
I think calling 911 is dangerous while you're under attack. If someone is breaking in or has broken into my house, for example, I need to focus on dealing with that. I don't want dispatch trying to keep me on the phone. Or trying to order me to do dumb sh1t such as putting gun down and hiding in a closet. I also can't afford to have cops show up until I know for sure the bad guy is gone and the event is over. I don't dare put down my gun until emergency is over. And cops might shoot me if they show up and they see me with a gun. Even if I am inside my own home and they are outside.

I figure practically speaking, when I call 911 I am transferring command over the emergency to the cops or they might view it so. And I have the added danger of being shot by the cop. I can honorably defend myself against an attacking bad guy. I can't honorably defend myself against a cop attacking me by mistake. In addition, my priorities and the cops are different. I want to stay armed and focused totally on the bad guy. I can't do that and stay on phone with cops.
 

CRBMoA

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I think calling 911 is dangerous while you're under attack. If someone is breaking in or has broken into my house, for example, I need to focus on dealing with that. I don't want dispatch trying to keep me on the phone. Or trying to order me to do dumb sh1t such as putting gun down and hiding in a closet. I also can't afford to have cops show up until I know for sure the bad guy is gone and the event is over. I don't dare put down my gun until emergency is over. And cops might shoot me if they show up and they see me with a gun. Even if I am inside my own home and they are outside.

I figure practically speaking, when I call 911 I am transferring command over the emergency to the cops or they might view it so. And I have the added danger of being shot by the cop. I can honorably defend myself against an attacking bad guy. I can't honorably defend myself against a cop attacking me by mistake. In addition, my priorities and the cops are different. I want to stay armed and focused totally on the bad guy. I can't do that and stay on phone with cops.
QTF - This is well thought out
 

Longwalkhome

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I think calling 911 is dangerous while you're under attack. If someone is breaking in or has broken into my house, for example, I need to focus on dealing with that. I don't want dispatch trying to keep me on the phone. Or trying to order me to do dumb sh1t such as putting gun down and hiding in a closet. I also can't afford to have cops show up until I know for sure the bad guy is gone and the event is over. I don't dare put down my gun until emergency is over. And cops might shoot me if they show up and they see me with a gun. Even if I am inside my own home and they are outside.

I figure practically speaking, when I call 911 I am transferring command over the emergency to the cops or they might view it so. And I have the added danger of being shot by the cop. I can honorably defend myself against an attacking bad guy. I can't honorably defend myself against a cop attacking me by mistake. In addition, my priorities and the cops are different. I want to stay armed and focused totally on the bad guy. I can't do that and stay on phone with cops.
Being on the phone is being on a leash... and muzzled :s0093:
 
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