Where to buy body armor?

[20ozjolt]

I had assumed he ment 3a....

Might use a conjunction plate or special threat plate if set on soft armor

 

[CountryGent]

So instead of soft body armor, I went with steel plates. Came in yesterday.

 

[American123]

Why? Just why?

View attachment 646333crazy they know people are dumb enough to try this. Looks like some decent stuff though

If you don't stand by your product it's hard to ask other people to trust it.

I watched a documentary on a company that makes bulletproof clothing that diplomats around the world end up wearing. All of the employees regularly put on one of their garb chosen at random off the rack and get shot in it.

The point being, they are selling a product that has no allowance for failure due to poor craftsmanship, and every employee is vitally invested in making quality products.

 

[MannyGlocks]

I want the 'cloaking option' - If you're invisible it's harder for the bad guys to shoot you...

 

[CamoDeafie]

I want the 'cloaking option' - If you're invisible it's harder for the bad guys to shoot you...

Kinda easy. Just dress up as an antifa demonstrator or one of those vag-hat beings with emo haircuts and skinny jeans the bad guys may assume you to be too far gone to shoot

 

[User 1234]

I tried on my newly-arrived armor tonight too.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I've been looking at these; 190 for a set, says NIJ level 3 certified, 2.2kg per (almost 5lbs each?).. from Canada; 2 NIJ Level 3 Hard Armor Polyethylene Ballistic Plate for Bullet Proof Vests for sale online | eBay

But theres also an US sourced, 10x12 single curve ceramic plate thats 80 shipped; 8.8lbs max weight, looks like just back plates, no fronts... looks to be older ceramic materials? Unsure.

Body Armor Plate-Single Curve Ceramic-Stand Alone Performance-NIJ Level III+ | eBay

They do not come with carriers; but that is fine because I have a green carrier that should work OK with them; if not, I can make one, or make use of my DBT Fast Attack PC which calls for L SAPI plates.. likely would pair with 3A soft inserts that are going to fill the DBT rig up.

 

[American123]

I've been looking at these; 190 for a set, says NIJ level 3 certified, 2.2kg per (almost 5lbs each?).. from Canada; 2 NIJ Level 3 Hard Armor Polyethylene Ballistic Plate for Bullet Proof Vests for sale online | eBay

But theres also an US sourced, 10x12 single curve ceramic plate thats 80 shipped; 8.8lbs max weight, looks like just back plates, no fronts... looks to be older ceramic materials? Unsure.

Body Armor Plate-Single Curve Ceramic-Stand Alone Performance-NIJ Level III+ | eBay

They do not come with carriers; but that is fine because I have a green carrier that should work OK with them; if not, I can make one, or make use of my DBT Fast Attack PC which calls for L SAPI plates.. likely would pair with 3A soft inserts that are going to fill the DBT rig up.

When you are buying something that you want to he able to depend on to save your life in a tough situation it would probably be best to stick with reputable sources, not sure ebay, would qualify.

If you are looking at steel, it would be tough to be AR500 - their stuff has been tested and tested and tested to show what abuse it will stop, and what will defeat it. They also offer polyethylene options, significant weight reduction, but not as much protection as steel or ceramic. Just depends what you are prioritizing in the weight to strength to cost ratio.

 

[CamoDeafie]

When you are buying something that you want to he able to depend on to save your life in a tough situation it would probably be best to stick with reputable sources, not sure ebay, would qualify.

If you are looking at steel, it would be tough to be AR500 - their stuff has been tested and tested and tested to show what abuse it will stop, and what will defeat it. They also offer polyethylene options, significant weight reduction, but not as much protection as steel or ceramic. Just depends what you are prioritizing in the weight to strength to cost ratio.

I'm trying to avoid steel armor, primarily due to spall even with coatings. The $190 shipped set's weight seems to indicate polyethylene, although made 2011? The other armor seems to be either alumina silica or similar , older ceramics.

 

[American123]

I'm trying to avoid steel armor, primarily due to spall even with coatings. The $190 shipped set's weight seems to indicate polyethylene, although made 2011? The other armor seems to be either alumina silica or similar , older ceramics.

Have you watched the AR500 build up coating review videos - they take .308, .223, etc and they eat it up, fully contained, no spall escapes. They do it for multiple rounds too, in some cases MANY. If you took those same amount of rounds and put them into polyethylene it would likely fail before the same amount of rounds that are still stopped by steel started to spall and escape the coating.

Your life, your choice though. The polyethylene seems like the way to go for Prioritizing weight over longevity and overall strength, things that go through it would be stopped by the steel. Everyone's body physique is also a factor. I don't expect the 145 lb wife to effectively sport 35 lbs of armor and gear, but the 8 lbs of polyethylene are doable, even if they are rated for less. Still more than nothing.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Okay. If AR500 plates with spall coatings are such great things, why is the military not using them? They're far cheaper than ceramics and polyethylene plates

Thats the sort of thing that blows "lowest bid contracts" out ... or maybe it may be that the Military doesn't find the steel armor to meet their specifications?

 

[American123]

Okay. If AR500 plates with spall coatings are such great things, why is the military not using them? They're far cheaper than ceramics and polyethylene plates

Thats the sort of thing that blows "lowest bid contracts" out ... or maybe it may be that the Military doesn't find the steel armor to meet their specifications?

I'd assume you already know the answer to this are are speaking rhetorically, but if not. Let me help illuminate some reasons.

Overall protection rating - ceramic and kevlar, often used in conjunction - provide a better level of protection than steel. They also provide a better level of protection at generally lesser weight.

Ceramic does not have as much of a multi hit protection ability compared to steel, and it also is brittle compared to steel and can be compromised by being dropped, where steel would not be compromised in this way.

.gov obviously chooses not to go with steel for their armor for front line troops for multiple reasons, weight, overall protection level probably being the two largest.

A US servicemen member wearing armor in any engagement area is far more likely to have that armor get shot than most American civilians who have bought armor, and of it does, they will be issued a replacement plate - compared to the majority of civilians who have bought armor and that armor will be possibly worn for training not and then but otherwise sit in the house for the next 30 years, one of the benefits of steel, especially the fully coated plates that are completely kept from any ability to rust, that armor in 30 years will be just as good as when it was bought. Compared to ceramic - still great, but got dropped by accident and now is cracked and rather worthless.

IMO the majority of civilians would be best served with steel, but this great country has the option to buy pretty much whatever you want, so get what you prefer for whatever reason you prefer it, even if it's illogical, haha

 

[StacattoP]

Okay. If AR500 plates with spall coatings are such great things, why is the military not using them? They're far cheaper than ceramics and polyethylene plates

Thats the sort of thing that blows "lowest bid contracts" out ... or maybe it may be that the Military doesn't find the steel armor to meet their specifications?

They get there stuff wayyyy wayyyy cheaper than the civilian market. Most basic 11b wear it because it's issued to them and don't have any other choice. Not here to argue on people's personal preference but if you look into most higher tier operators kit it's mostly ar500 of some type of steel plate with spall. Most ceramics if you drop on the ground even from shoulders length will crack and be deemed unfit for service. Yes steel plates are heavy and uncomfortable but for multi hit rateing it's simply the way to go. Both are good at what they do. Can they both fail at some point yes!

 

[CamoDeafie]

Not so long ago, there was a stink up and I believe some Congressional hearings about the failures of some of the armor used over there... as well as comments coming to light that troops in general were not allowed to buy their own armor to replace or upgrade, at least on an individual basis. I have seen quite a few photographs of US troops using PASGT equipment with ACU uniform pieces; and a lot of the Special Forces using Ceradyne's BALCS that were issued during the late 90s on unit purchases... and most interestingly, a bunch with the late 80s to mid 90s era Ranger Body Armor (only one plate up front, and soft armor on both sides). Quite a few photos floating around of Marines with black low profile carriers using ceramics at the time... because the issued Interceptors were too hot and reduced mobility for some of them at the time.

There's a reason the USMC seemed to go from Interceptors to MTVs to IMTVs to SPCs and CIRAS systems...

As someone into modern military history and gear used.. this is of note. So far; have not heard from deployed troopers that AR500 plates are used over there.

Wouldnt surprise me if the AR500 plates were used as training weights before going overseas though.

 

[BrandonQuixote]

Don't buy steel unless its from Steel Ops. Other steel plates, although light and thin- will spall and with shards of M855 or 7n6 in your throat, you're gonna wish it went through instead. I've seen independent tests on the Steel Ops stuff- the plate took a 12 round mix of 300blk, M855, 9x19 and i think 308 without spalling before succumbing to a center punch from a 270 Win from 50 yards. I think they use a 7/16th's plate of AR650, for what its worth. Hesco makes some of the better Ceramic plates...but they're expensive, thick and only multi-hit rated for certain calibers and well theres the dropping/ falling issue.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Some people have been saying "get Level 4s or nothing" lately on other forums... my beef is that according to the NIJ its only 1 hit rated for .30-06 AP ammo. Says nothing of being tested officially against M855A1 and 7.62x51 "AP" rounds.... granted the .30-06AP seems to be one of the most powerful rifle calibers short of .338 Lapua and 7.62x54R steel cores... whereas Level 3 NIJ qualifications seems to indicate "multi hit" rated for up to 6 shots?

 

[StacattoP]

I'd assume you already know the answer to this are are speaking rhetorically, but if not. Let me help illuminate some reasons.

Overall protection rating - ceramic and kevlar, often used in conjunction - provide a better level of protection than steel. They also provide a better level of protection at generally lesser weight.

Ceramic does not have as much of a multi hit protection ability compared to steel, and it also is brittle compared to steel and can be compromised by being dropped, where steel would not be compromised in this way.

.gov obviously chooses not to go with steel for their armor for front line troops for multiple reasons, weight, overall protection level probably being the two largest.

A US servicemen member wearing armor in any engagement area is far more likely to have that armor get shot than most American civilians who have bought armor, and of it does, they will be issued a replacement plate - compared to the majority of civilians who have bought armor and that armor will be possibly worn for training not and then but otherwise sit in the house for the next 30 years, one of the benefits of steel, especially the fully coated plates that are completely kept from any ability to rust, that armor in 30 years will be just as good as when it was bought. Compared to ceramic - still great, but got dropped by accident and now is cracked and rather worthless.

IMO the majority of civilians would be best served with steel, but this great country has the option to buy pretty much whatever you want, so get what you prefer for whatever reason you prefer it, even if it's illogical, haha

Not so long ago, there was a stink up and I believe some Congressional hearings about the failures of some of the armor used over there... as well as comments coming to light that troops in general were not allowed to buy their own armor to replace or upgrade, at least on an individual basis. I have seen quite a few photographs of US troops using PASGT equipment with ACU uniform pieces; and a lot of the Special Forces using Ceradyne's BALCS that were issued during the late 90s on unit purchases... and most interestingly, a bunch with the late 80s to mid 90s era Ranger Body Armor (only one plate up front, and soft armor on both sides). Quite a few photos floating around of Marines with black low profile carriers using ceramics at the time... because the issued Interceptors were too hot and reduced mobility for some of them at the time.

There's a reason the USMC seemed to go from Interceptors to MTVs to IMTVs to SPCs and CIRAS systems...

As someone into modern military history and gear used.. this is of note. So far; have not heard from deployed troopers that AR500 plates are used over there.

Wouldnt surprise me if the AR500 plates were used as training weights before going overseas though.

Again buy what you want but let's stay on topic if we can . If you want open up a thread discussing the issue thanks.

 

[BrandonQuixote]

Some people have been saying "get Level 4s or nothing" lately on other forums... my beef is that according to the NIJ its only 1 hit rated for .30-06 AP ammo. Says nothing of being tested officially against M855A1 and 7.62x51 "AP" rounds.... granted the .30-06AP seems to be one of the most powerful rifle calibers short of .338 Lapua and 7.62x54R steel cores... whereas Level 3 NIJ qualifications seems to indicate "multi hit" rated for up to 6 shots?

the NIJ rating is a strange bird. I believe they have to be tested for "special threat" to get M855, 7n6 and whatever the x39 AP ammo designation is- certified. The special threat rating is independent of its "level" rating- so Level III can be special threat rated but a level IV could not. I think they're more focused on dealing with AK/AR pattern calibers.

 

[CamoDeafie]

So. I watched some videos on all these armor options, plus the taofeldermaus videos on the sketchiest ebay armor possible (those cheap, homemade? kevlar panels with no labels and such) ... quite interesting. Seems Level 3+ polyethylene is a winner so far, taking multiple hits without much brittleness (very similar to steel armor in that respect) without spalling . Rounds tend to stay intact inside the armor. Also seems some Special Threat rated Level 3 ceramic plates can take multiple hits of M855s before succumbing; about 6 to 8 hits in the same general area according to Demolition Ranch?

Jury is still out for me. I'm really tempted to get the Ebay Canadian police surplus 2.2kg level 3 NIJ rated plates, they do mention special threat rated with 3a backers I assume, if only to fit carriers for them, or outfit my wife with. Havent found good deals for bigger plates for big dudes yet.

 

[StacattoP]

Camodeafie go ahead and start a thread for this I am interested in seeing everyone's opinion.