Where to Be...

[U201491]

Satellite internet - BTDT - flaky, expensive, slow, high latency, not good at all for VPN (if you are working from home, it is very likely you will need VPN) or voice.

Internet is a very real problem for those in the hinterlands that need internet. Once you get out of the suburbs the bandwidth and reliability and options go down. The further you get off the beaten path, the worse it gets.

You honestly think there will be an internet ???????
Thats the very last thing I would be concerned with.

 

[Certaindeaf]

SHTF talk is fine and dandy but if you're out in the sticks and a tree hits the wires (THTW), you'll often find that crews will prioritize denser packed hubs/populations before the lone neckbeards. Something to consider, considering your job/daily work.

 

[The Heretic]

I won't disagree with this. I will just add the concept of 'Globalization' that began a few decades ago. For the underdeveloped part of the world to increase individual wealth, which would provide additional customers for the business community, some of the wealth of the developed parts of the world need to give up some of their wealth. As noted, there are finite resources and an expanding market. So far it seems to be going as the top 2% has it figured out. Those gaining goods and services they could only once dream about are giddy. Those having to surrender to increased costs for food, clothing, shelter, energy, and lost jobs are squealing like stuck pigs, but so far there has been no major insurrections. Another generation, or two and things will be a lot more level than they are today and maybe calmer.

I don't know or agree that the first world needs to give up wealth for third world and developing countries to increase their "wealth", but I do know that those things needed for life - water, air, food, land, energy - are becoming increasingly expensive because for the most part they are finite and the population is increasing.

Even a toddler understands that more people sharing one birthday cake means smaller pieces of cake for everyone - and yet I still have trouble getting adults to understand this basic concept as it applies to water, food, land, energy and why this means those resources will just keep increasing in cost and decreasing in availability until such a point where we "peak" and something has to give - i.e., the population goes down (possibly by a lot of people starving and dying).

 

[The Heretic]

SHTF talk is fine and dandy but if you're out in the sticks and a tree hits the wires (THTW), you'll often find that crews will prioritize denser packed hubs/populations before the lone neckbeards. Something to consider, considering your job/daily work.

Yes, this is why all of my neighbors (as do I) have gensets, hookups and disconnects.

It is fairly common to find such setups in rural housing that is among the forests.

I live on a low mountain range that is in the middle of farmland, and it is mostly forest up here. I've lost power 3 times so far last winter, none this winter - yet (although I see the lights flickering when the wind blows). Each time the utility co. fixed the problem before I even noticed it (I was either asleep or at work and the only way I knew it happened was some appliances needed their clock reset) - but that was isolated problems, not widespread.

When it is widespread they naturally triage to get the most people back online in the shortest period of time. That means people like me who live in sparsely populated areas get our power back last - which sometimes can mean weeks.

When I retire in about 5 years, I will move even further out, and the land will have a southern exposure, I will probably build from scratch, I will have solar backup and so on.

 

[EZLivin]

You honestly think there will be an internet ???????
Thats the very last thing I would be concerned with.

There better be an internet! My plan is to be at home and watch SHTF/TEOTWAWKI on the internet! (But I'm close to having my HAM base station set up just in case.)

 

[3MTA3]

When the sky falls the Internet will be shut down as one of the first steps to prevent communication between the sheep. No baah, baah, baah for you. Either that or only state controlled sites will be available. Definitely no social media - they have seen how effective it was during the Arab Spring. Expect Ham to be closely monitored.

 

[Trailboss]

I'm pretty sure that "where to be" is a state of; preparation, mind and planning even more than a location. Urban areas have resources that can be bartered for. Urban areas have more bad guys but also have more unarmed victims to distract the bad guys. A smart, well prepared, well defended compound is not an easy target for bad guys. Better for them to attack the unarmed population.

 

[The Heretic]

I am not sure the OP was meaning that he needed internet during SHTF, but rather for his job - which is the case for a lot of people now, including myself.

That said, even if/when the internet goes away (and I am betting it would not go away overnight, and therefore would be of value until then for more than just watching porn), you can setup an ad-hoc wifi mesh network that is independent of the internet. Such a network allows you to communicate and share info with your neighbors, without having to leave your home (which may be an issue if SHTF) and depending on your setup, you may have access to surveillance cams on your neighbor's property.

I live on a private road with about 8 family residences. I am putting up some outdoor surveillance cams that in a SHTF situation I may wish to share access with my neighbors so they can keep an eye on things. I can think of a number of scenarios where this would be a very real advantage. If the neighborhood is under siege or we just need to keep an eye on who is coming and going, then more eyes and ears are better.

Also, most smartphones today work well with wifi, and some would work on a mesh network without a cellular provider - giving you a wireless telephone network that you can use to talk to your neighbors as long as you are within the range of any of the wifi nodes.

 

[3MTA3]

I am not sure the OP was meaning that he needed internet during SHTF, but rather for his job - which is the case for a lot of people now, including myself.

Exactly correct. I'm looking for a location that will have viable Internet service now that will also be a good choice when SHTF happens, I don't expect that the Internet will be available during SHTF, and even if it is all reachable content will likely be controlled.

That said, even if/when the internet goes away (and I am betting it would not go away overnight, and therefore would be of value until then for more than just watching porn), you can setup an ad-hoc wifi mesh network that is independent of the internet. Such a network allows you to communicate and share info with your neighbors, without having to leave your home (which may be an issue if SHTF) and depending on your setup, you may have access to surveillance cams on your neighbor's property.

I live on a private road with about 8 family residences. I am putting up some outdoor surveillance cams that in a SHTF situation I may wish to share access with my neighbors so they can keep an eye on things. I can think of a number of scenarios where this would be a very real advantage. If the neighborhood is under siege or we just need to keep an eye on who is coming and going, then more eyes and ears are better.

Also, most smartphones today work well with wifi, and some would work on a mesh network without a cellular provider - giving you a wireless telephone network that you can use to talk to your neighbors as long as you are within the range of any of the wifi nodes.

Great idea - Me likey! Me man love you long time!

 

[rick benjamin]

Read this book.
Thinking About Survival: Bruce Clayton: 9780873642934: Amazon.com: Books

 

[The Heretic]

Me man love you long time!

Thanks. I am flattered, I really am, but me no swingy that way. ;-)

 

[3MTA3]

Thanks. I am flattered, I really am, but me no swingy that way. ;-)

Me neither, It's an expression we tekkies use when someone has a brilliant idea or solves a tough problem. No ladyboy here...

 

[The Heretic]

Ookaaay


You might want to rethink that...

 

[U201491]

There better be an internet! My plan is to be at home and watch SHTF/TEOTWAWKI on the internet! (But I'm close to having my HAM base station set up just in case.)

About busted a gut on that one...........oooooK

 

[EZLivin]

About busted a gut on that one...........oooooK

Look, I'm committed to it! I have enough popcorn, wine, tequila, vodka, mixers, and assorted snacks to get us through 90 days of knock-down drag-out SHTF. My internet connection works well enough that we can sit on the deck with our laptops (if it is summer) and enjoy some sun while we are watching.

Ok, here's the "but": But... I'm not looking for MadMax, but only for madness and mayhem in the usual areas of the usual cities as result of a currency "event." Kinda like what happens in LA when they don't like court decisions, or in Vancouver BC when they lose a hockey championship game. In my view the situation would blow over in 90 days, and likely would not cause an internet disruption. Internet is necessary for commerce, which is necessary for societal stability, so it should remain up. But I do believe in 'hedging,' so if it goes full-scale SHTF TEOTWAWKI across the board then we will adapt to that too (snacks but no internet).

 

[The Heretic]

Not sure how much EZL is being facetious and how much is being serious, but I basically agree (in all seriousness).

The only way the internet would go down would be either a collapse of sufficient magnitude to cause the supporting infrastructure to collapse, or the government would feel it was necessary in the case of such widespread insurrection that it felt threatened (and even then I doubt they would throw the switch on the whole network - if they could - they would just take down any "subversive" websites)

I watched Y2K go down (i.e., fizzle, if even that) on what then passed for the internet.

It was in a way entertaining - pretty much like now, there were those who were sure it would be TEOTWAWKI (including one guy, who in all seriousness, believed that when there was a "pole shift" of the earth's magnetic field, this would also - somehow - cause, temporarily, a sudden increase in the gravitational field of the earth such that for hours to days we would all be suddenly heavier and we should therefore take our food and water off shelves and put it on floor so we could drink and eat).

I was both pleased and somewhat surprised that very very little happened. I wasn't expecting much, as I knew that billions had been spent to fix most problems, but I did expect that a few orgs would have serious problems that could spread.

 

[EZLivin]

I was serious. (But I really do believe in hedging my bets since I know I could be wrong.)

 

[3MTA3]

I was both pleased and somewhat surprised that very very little happened. I wasn't expecting much, as I knew that billions had been spent to fix most problems, but I did expect that a few orgs would have serious problems that could spread.

I was part of that effort and worked on systems that definitely would have been impacted. One of the systems I worked on was used to provide oversight to nuclear power plants in the event that certain data points went out of spec as a response to Three Mile Island. It's almost a shame that the Y2K efforts were so successful, because the perception outside the industry was that it must not have been all that big a deal to begin with.

 

[The Heretic]

I was part of that effort and worked on systems that definitely would have been impacted. One of the systems I worked on was used to provide oversight to nuclear power plants in the event that certain data points went out of spec as a response to Three Mile Island. It's almost a shame that the Y2K efforts were so successful, because the perception outside the industry was that it must not have been all that big a deal to begin with.

As you say, people outside of the industry generally have no idea how much time, effort and money was spent to fix or at least mitigate issues. Of course, a lot of that, at least in business apps (including gov business) was spent replacing rather than rewriting many apps that were so obsolete (due to platform, language, framework or just plain badly written) that it made more sense to take the opportunity to rewrite them instead of patch them up.

I did my little bit; I changed some code in the app I was working on - took 30 minutes to change, compile and test - including the database.

 

[EZLivin]

...It's almost a shame that the Y2K efforts were so successful, because the perception outside the industry was that it must not have been all that big a deal to begin with.

It was also an example of how the chronic doom-n-gloom folks often fail at seeing the entire picture. I remember Gary North (and a few others in that community) going on and on about how Y2K was going to be the end of civilization. They all endlessly quoted Ed Yardeni to support the TEOTWAWKI argument, but when Ed determined the potential problem was solved a lot of them didn't bother to mention that, and continued with their TEOTWAWKI line. Well, the tech folks did their part to fix it, and old "Bubbles" Greenspan pumped in massive liquidity, so the end result was Y2K was a non-event (on the surface). But a lot of folks upped their preps during that time so it really ended up being a win-win for lots of people.

I think those that view the current world economic situation as being simply the work of an evil cabal of omnisicient/omnipotent individuals bent on destroying the US are failing to see the entire picture also. Sure, there are some wealthy and malevolent individuals (Soros for example) who hate us, and would love to destroy our system and knock us down a few rungs, but there are just as many powerful folks and institutions who want to see it continue the way it is so they can enjoy the little kingdoms they have created for themselves. There are way too many conflicting goals and wild cards out there to be able to accurately forecast how this crisis will continue to unfold and play out. It is entertaining to try though