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nwslopoke

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Cheer up, @Old Dog. I'm cynical about much that's happening in American politics but cheered by the situation with respect to guns, at least on the national level. In fact I'm excited by the possibilities.

One of the major reasons why America has become more anti-gun in recent years is because the population has become largely urban, and is now third generation or more urbanite. Many did not have guns at home growing up. Most have never gone to war. Most have never handled a gun. They don't hunt, have never needed to protect livestock, have never lived very far from a police station. The closest place to shoot outdoors may be many hours away. There may be no ranges nearby. And for a lot of people, ranges just don't appeal. And the police were relatively nearby and reasonably responsive. These people never expected to own a gun themselves. So they had nothing to lose if gun ownership was made as difficult as possible. If anything, they thought, they had everything to gain by anti-gun laws as it might mean fewer guns in the hands of bad guys. Which it might, as there would be fewer legally owned guns available for bad guys to steal so greater odds the criminal would be unarmed. And even if the laws did not actually work, the gun-less urbanite still probably figured that the anti-gun laws at least didn't hurt him. And so he voted for them.

Many such urbanites change their minds about owning guns only after they or a friend or family is attacked. Then they come to realize that a cop even five minutes away might as well be on the moon in many situations. They need real fear to come close before they reevaluate. During the last year or so, with mobs in the street allowed to run wild every day for months, and city governments requiring police to stand down and not even pretend to protect, serve, or enforce the law, fear has come fully close to huge numbers of urbanites for the first time. The huge number of first time gun buyers of all ethnic groups with almost equal numbers of women and men is the result. I'm guessing there will be many more sales once manufacturing catcher up with demand.

How will these new gun owners vote? I think that their voting WILL change instantly in some (but not all) ways. Because as a gun owner, every anti-gun law restricts them too. As long as they had no gun and expected to never have one, they imagined that gun laws might or might not restrict bad guys, but would at least not harm they themselves. Now they want a CC, and won't want more laws restricting where you can carry. If they have a gun for HD they won't want laws that say it has to be stored in a way its inaccessible. Will their voting change in all ways instantly? Probably not. For example, if they simply buy a shotgun and don't get formal training or join a forum or interact with other gun people, they may still want to ban the other guy's gun--the AR or high capacity semiautomatic and mags. But a lot of them are buying 9mm, high capacity if legal in their state, wishing it were if not. They will at least have taken a couple of steps in the right direction with respect to voting 2A. In addition, they will be more open to arguments from our side. Before, they had thought all guns were evil and gun owners were criminals and nuts. Once they buy their first gun, that stereotype is broken forever.

Another factor is there is a solidly conservative Supreme Court. And it will likely be hard to pass a bill expanding the court with the senate tied and in dem hands only by virtue of the breaking vote of the VP.

In addition the democrats actually lost House members in 2020. They gained a couple of senators, so tied up the senate. However, an overview is that America didn't vote democrat overall. On the national level they were divided. They simply didn't vote for Trump. If the Republicans manage to put up any reasonable non-Trump candidate in 2024 I think they will have a good chance of taking the Presidency, the House, and the Senate. Even in ordinary times with a younger more charismatic president, in re-election years the presidents party usually loses power in congress.

What might be possible then? National law or Supreme court ruling establishing constitutional carry everywhere? Law/ruling establishing right to buy and own all guns and accessories including silencers and forbidding states from restricting types of guns, waiting periods, records of ownership, etc.? Everyone older than 18 can buy or own a gun of any kind including handguns. No more restrictions on buying guns or ammo than on tp or anything else. No public venues such as stores or restaurants can exclude people with guns. No jobs can have no gun policies. Nor landlords. Nobody should be able to override a constitutional right on their property.

Right. We couldn't get all this stuff right away. But we should think about what we want, and not waste the opportunity if Republicans win the house, senate, and presidency in 2020. And that just might happen. Biden has lost much/all credibility over his unnecessarily inept withdrawal from Afghanistan. And even the dems hate Kamala Harris. The dems may retire Biden and nominate KH for pres. KH didn't even have the few % of support among dems it took to stay in the debates.

We have fought for 2A on the state level when the federal government and supreme court were against it. During my entire youth and middle age the supreme court never even affirmed that 2A included the individual right to keep and bear arms or use them for SD. Now the situation is partially reversed. And Oregon and many states are locked into corrupt rule by one party monopolies that are anti-gun. If 2020 goes the way I'm hoping we need to be ready to focus on 2A rights at the national level.
Don't discount programming by the entertainment industry. Fantastic images that have little in common with reality. Shooting accurately from the hip. Handguns from every prime time TV show kept in unlocked top drawer. Revolvers with silencers. Rednecks and southern imbeciles (even though Kentucky and Tennessee have higher rated schools than the west). Government agencies with the highest degree of dedication to our safety.

The summer of love and being mislabeled as domestic terrorists should be shaking that reality tree. I was raised a lefty but I also have been punched in the face and have had guns pointed at me. My fantasy was shattered a long time ago. Any idea the current administration and their European buddies prioritize the individual is a joke.
 

Old Dog

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Sorry, I'm not appreciating all the Buffalo Springfield references, especially the anti-American commie Neil Young.

Y'all can be "cheered" by what you believe is going on in the gun world, but from where I sit, things still look pretty grim. We have lost the narrative, as I noted, and the proletariat believes the tripe CNN, MSNBC and the Seattle Times puts forth.
 

Knobgoblin

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Sorry, I'm not appreciating all the Buffalo Springfield references, especially the anti-American commie Neil Young.

Y'all can be "cheered" by what you believe is going on in the gun world, but from where I sit, things still look pretty grim. We have lost the narrative, as I noted, and the proletariat believes the tripe CNN, MSNBC and the Seattle Times puts forth.
Not sure if I qualify as part of the "we" ,
but the narrative has been slipping steadily left since before I was born.

I would love to see non biased, truthful reporting in the media
But neither of these are typically successful . The most well received and profitable reporting is heavily biased, and pandering .
Things will swing back the other way eventually. I reckon.
 

Knobgoblin

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So be it. Eph them.

Joe
Amen , brohem.

Every time a few dudes are gathered around BSing and someone starts sniveling about how they don't want to be on any "list " I say let's make the list as big as possible.
You get enough people unafraid to express their dislike of infringements on our rights, then the maybe they'll think twice about infringing too far.
 

Mathias

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Amen , brohem.

Every time a few dudes are gathered around BSing and someone starts sniveling about how they don't want to be on any "list " I say let's make the list as big as possible.
You get enough people unafraid to express their dislike of infringements on our rights, then the maybe they'll think twice about infringing too far.
If you're not on a list.....you're not trying hard enough.
 

Knobgoblin

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If the alphabet bois sent me a pin everytime I typed a "trigger " word .

images.jpeg-61.jpg
 
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Amen , brohem.

Every time a few dudes are gathered around BSing and someone starts sniveling about how they don't want to be on any "list " I say let's make the list as big as possible.
You get enough people unafraid to express their dislike of infringements on our rights, then the maybe they'll think twice about infringing too far.
When I was a kid we had a neighbor who would drive really fast up the street and into her driveway. It was an isolated road with no sidewalks so most of us walked in the street. People started complaining about it to each other but not to her. I assumed it was because she was very aggressive with people who disagreed with her. For various reasons this person thought she was in some sort of elevated position in the community.

At a block party one day she stood up and loudly announced that she had heard that some people were talking about her driving habits and wanted to know who those people were. A lady from the house two doors down from her stood up and replied "You can count me as one of them. I have children who ride their bikes on this street and you don't even slow down for them. Frankly it's frightening." You could have heard a pin drop. Miss Thing just turned around and walked into her house. Never heard another thing about it. I barely knew the lady who spoke up but I remember feeling some admiration for her and realizing I had learned something that day.

And no, she didn't slow down much afterward but she did keep her mouth shut, mostly.
 

Knobgoblin

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When I was a kid we had a neighbor who would drive really fast up the street and into her driveway. It was an isolated road with no sidewalks so most of us walked in the street. People started complaining about it to each other but not to her. I assumed it was because she was very aggressive with people who disagreed with her. For various reasons this person thought she was in some sort of elevated position in the community.

At a block party one day she stood up and loudly announced that she had heard that some people were talking about her driving habits and wanted to know who those people were. A lady from the house two doors down from her stood up and replied "You can count me as one of them. I have children who ride their bikes on this street and you don't even slow down for them. Frankly it's frightening." You could have heard a pin drop. Miss Thing just turned around and walked into her house. Never heard another thing about it. I barely knew the lady who spoke up but I remember feeling some admiration for her and realizing I had learned something that day.

And no, she didn't slow down much afterward but she did keep her mouth shut, mostly.
Bullies need an audience of cowards to flourish.
 

Old Dog

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When I was a kid we had a neighbor who would drive really fast up the street and into her driveway. It was an isolated road with no sidewalks so most of us walked in the street. People started complaining about it to each other but not to her. I assumed it was because she was very aggressive with people who disagreed with her. For various reasons this person thought she was in some sort of elevated position in the community.

At a block party one day she stood up and loudly announced that she had heard that some people were talking about her driving habits and wanted to know who those people were. A lady from the house two doors down from her stood up and replied "You can count me as one of them. I have children who ride their bikes on this street and you don't even slow down for them. Frankly it's frightening." You could have heard a pin drop. Miss Thing just turned around and walked into her house. Never heard another thing about it. I barely knew the lady who spoke up but I remember feeling some admiration for her and realizing I had learned something that day.

And no, she didn't slow down much afterward but she did keep her mouth shut, mostly.
This is a really great lesson, great story. There are all sorts of courage in the world.
 
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When I was a kid we had a neighbor who would drive really fast up the street and into her driveway. It was an isolated road with no sidewalks so most of us walked in the street. People started complaining about it to each other but not to her. I assumed it was because she was very aggressive with people who disagreed with her. For various reasons this person thought she was in some sort of elevated position in the community.

At a block party one day she stood up and loudly announced that she had heard that some people were talking about her driving habits and wanted to know who those people were. A lady from the house two doors down from her stood up and replied "You can count me as one of them. I have children who ride their bikes on this street and you don't even slow down for them. Frankly it's frightening." You could have heard a pin drop. Miss Thing just turned around and walked into her house. Never heard another thing about it. I barely knew the lady who spoke up but I remember feeling some admiration for her and realizing I had learned something that day.

And no, she didn't slow down much afterward but she did keep her mouth shut, mostly.
Throw a chunk of pipe through her windshield, she'll get the message.
 
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Throw a chunk of pipe through her windshield, she'll get the message.
Truth be told, one night my brother went out and poured a thin strip of used oil on the street in front of their driveway. The next day in the afternoon there was a loud screech of tires and when I looked, her car was sitting at a funny angle in the driveway. She was sitting very still in the driver's seat. Must not have noticed the oil on the way out and came home at her usual breakneck speed. She slowed down after that. A little.
 
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