When to draw?

[SquatchWorks]

Thanks for the responces guys!!!

I will be checking out that webpage after this... Thanks!!!

I think it is good after something happens to talk about it and find out what you can do next time about it.



Just to clear a few things up that I have read from your replys....

My gun was in a IWB holster (very very nice holster) I can and could have pulled with no trouble even with the seatbelt on...

I could have drove off, but I would have run a red light with LOTS of traffic, and caused an accident and then I would have had to get out, with that jackass still behind me...

I will be getting some Pepper Spray, or Bear spray for use in all of my cars very soon!!!

If the window was broken, or my car was damaged I WOULD have Pulled my gun. But I Ignored him. Even after he tryed to open my car door... He was Very close to be seeing the business end of a 45acp.

And Finally... I can handle myself if there was no car or gun... Im over 200# @ 6'4" and can defend myself,... I just dident want a fight in the street or damage to my car, or get punched in the face (It would have not been the 1st time, but I dont care for the way it feels)... Next time, HE WILL get sprayed in the face with the F'ing strongest grade peperspray I can find, in the biggest can they make!!! And I hope its my wife that sprays him!!!

 

[kenr74]

If I was in that situation I would have pulled it but not shown it. What if he had walked up and shot you through the window before you could even unholster? I can understand not showing or pointing your weapon but I would have had it ready to go before he got to my door.

 

[matt_w]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this (I think most people here are mature enough to not go around getting in fights with strangers), but had you actually gotten out of the car when he told you to and gotten in a fight (without using a firearm), couldn't that be considered "combat by agreement"?

161.215 Limitations on use of physical force in defense of a person. Notwithstanding ORS 161.209, a person is not justified in using physical force upon another person if:


3) The physical force involved is the product of a combat by agreement not specifically authorized by law. [1971 c.743 §24]

 

[Riot]

Did you feel that your life was is in immenant danger? Can you articulate this to a jury of your peers?

Answer those questions, then it becomes obvious if you should have drawn your pistol or not. Other than that if you thought that you may become a victim of an assault....SPRAY EM TILL THEY BLEED I say...

 

[dobeman]

. Next time, HE WILL get sprayed in the face with the F'ing strongest grade peperspray I can find, in the biggest can they make!!! And I hope its my wife that sprays him!!!

by the way, www.corneredcat.com has a nice write-up on pepper spray as well... good reading

 

[dobeman]

Did you feel that your life was is in immenant danger? Can you articulate this to a jury of your peers?

Answer those questions, then it becomes obvious if you should have drawn your pistol or not. Other than that if you thought that you may become a victim of an assault....SPRAY EM TILL THEY BLEED I say...

long day - just had a funny thought.. so he sprays the dude, the dude staggers, blinded, into traffic and gets hit.. then he sues the guy who sprayed him and wins.. ah ... what a litigious society we live in.. anyway, spray on!!

 

[Riot]

long day - just had a funny thought.. so he sprays the dude, the dude staggers, blinded, into traffic and gets hit.. then he sues the guy who sprayed him and wins.. ah ... what a litigious society we live in.. anyway, spray on!!

That could go either way...he opens his door- pushing him into traffic. He drives off, runs over his feet. He sees the gun and is mentally scared from the "violent encounter"...ect, ect.

 

[unseen]

This brings an interesting point can you draw your pistol sitting in your seat with your seat belt on? I prefer to un-holster my pistol as I am getting into the car. Sure it may not be the best but it works. As long as you have control of your pistol and in any type of situation you want to be able to put the front sight post center mass as fast as possible. If someone is trying to open my door in the process of yelling and screaming is going to get at least a car door in the balls and a good shot of the .40 caliber projectile siting in battery. Thats just the way I run things. Results may vary.

 

[clearconscience]

Question: When to draw?
Answer: When someone needs to die. Only.

Don't ever draw in a road rage incident. Stay in your car call the cops, the aggressor always goes to jail.

I was in a similar situation. My girlfriend (ex) flipped a car full of guys off, they started swerving at me, tailgating, yelling at me to pull over. I waited about 5 miles, then exited the freeway and they followed, I turned at the next exit, pulled to the side of the road and they kept going took off. I had one hand on my door handle and the other on my Beretta.
I thank God they kept going. I was only 21 just got my permit, and would never think abot grabbing my gun in that situation again. Call the Cops, go to a public place. Only if they crash into you, and rush you pull a gun. If there's more than one/ a lot bigger than you, and have used their vehicle ain an assault then you "could" be justified. But never takt that chance unless you have no other way to escape with your life or someone else's

 

[Newcastle]

You should have pulled out Peter, rolled down your window, grabbed the b!tch by the back of his scruff, pulled him down and made him eat pipe.

 

[brausso]

anyone toting a handgun should checkout this website before you pull the gun... www.corneredcat.com. Great information here. Lots to think about. Need to start thinking in terms of A-O-J: Ability - Opportunity - Jeopardy. It's how it will be dealt with in a legal proceeding.

I think the AOJ concept pretty much sums it up. The question is, can you fully think through all 3 of these when there are only seconds to decide??

 

[dobeman]

I think the AOJ concept pretty much sums it up. The question is, can you fully think through all 3 of these when there are only seconds to decide??

reading the article, jeopardy is the hardest one to establish, and fear does not count as jeopardy.

 

[brickman]

One more thing I have not heard metioned... I would be driving my wife's car for the next few weeks. I would not want my wife to come up against this jerk alone. I do beleive you did the right thing, but I understand it must have been a difficult few moments.

 

[krazed]

Let me throw some more fuel on this fire.
A friend of mine was in a similar situation. Unintentionally cut off a guy in a pickup. ?There were two others with him. They followed him for several miles until he got caught in traffic at a light. One guy jumps out and comes up along side with a baseball bat. My friend was carrying and saw him coming. He did not show anything but just waited. When the guy came up to the window he just broke it with the bat. This created thousands of shards which flew into my friends face, getting some in his eyes. He couldn't see anything or do anything. Fortunately, the light turned, the guy ran back to his truck and drove around and away.
The police came and took a report but still have not found anything. My friends eyes took a long time and some expense the heal.
He was never really in a position to draw based on what has been said here. But, If he had his gun out maybe this guy would have seen it and retreated before braking the window?

 

[RobertJ.]

You exercised good judgement in not showing him your weapon. Only in a rare set of circumstances would I show my weapon. If I show it, I've already decided to stop the threat, and it would likely be the last thing the attacker ever sees.

If you had shown your weapon, he could have gone back to his car, phoned the police, and reported that you threatened him. That would lead to your being pulled over, searched, disarmed, handcuffed, and would force you to prove you're not the bad guy.

Most of us are pretty nice guys, and I myself am very forgiving, especially on the road. It's a shame we have to deal with people who are totally unreasonable.

Bear spray is an excellent idea.

 

[unseen]

This situation can be "what if'd" a thousand times over. The fact of the matter is you carry a weapon to protect you and your family. The use of force continuum is a great tool, but you must remember that you can go from step one "Shout" to step five "shoot" (depending on which one you use) in one second. It response is proactive depending on the threat. Also, brandishing is a part of escalation of force. That said, it needs to be well thought of. Don't show your pistol to just some dude that flipped you off. The way I look at it when I show, if that dude decreases the distance between us or becomes more violent he is going to have a sucking chest wound shortly. Each situation is different. Do what you can to prevent violence all the time but remember you carry a pistol for that very reason.

Just my 2 cents, your results may vary.

 

[BlvdKing]

Let me throw some more fuel on this fire.
A friend of mine was in a similar situation. Unintentionally cut off a guy in a pickup. ?There were two others with him. They followed him for several miles until he got caught in traffic at a light. One guy jumps out and comes up along side with a baseball bat. My friend was carrying and saw him coming. He did not show anything but just waited. When the guy came up to the window he just broke it with the bat. This created thousands of shards which flew into my friends face, getting some in his eyes. He couldn't see anything or do anything. Fortunately, the light turned, the guy ran back to his truck and drove around and away.
The police came and took a report but still have not found anything. My friends eyes took a long time and some expense the heal.
He was never really in a position to draw based on what has been said here. But, If he had his gun out maybe this guy would have seen it and retreated before braking the window?

Bat or multiple assailents = justification of force... broken window or not

 

[SavageGerbil]

I've gotta say, in a situation where someone is trying to use violence on me, I'll do whatever is necessary to prevent it, I've already got a vertebrae out of place in my neck, I'd rather not see how much further it could go with a guy set on throttling my head for me. Even if I didn't, the potential for serious injury in a beating isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with, if someone wants to "teach me a lesson" he can go ahead and call me some names, maybe some obscene gestures, but attempt to hurt me and I'm going to use all available options to ensure I leave in the same condition I showed up in.

 

[Redcap]

You guys don't carry a non-lethal option? I keep lots of tools in my vehicles. A short crowbar leaning on the transmission hump of my truck, as well as a 4ft length of 3/8" chain, 1/2" and 3/4" breaker bars as well as ratchets with appropriately sized cheater bars, among other things. With those options (being the most easily available, more objects behind the seat), if someone can't see that I'm not particularly interested in a road-rage fight but also fully equipped, I have my USP sitting on my strong-side hip.

 

[SavageGerbil]

Redcap, careful with that stuff, could be charged with assault with a deadly weapon with a crow bar just as easy as a pistol. If I wouldn't draw my handgun I don't think I'd go all "Lord of the Rings" on them with a huge chunk of steel