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The Underwood Ammo is designed to induce a large wound channel in soft tissue but allow penetration to FBI standards as well. The flutes cause massive cavitation in soft tissue. In bone and more dense tissue, however, the fact the bullet doesn't deform allows just the kind of barrier penetration it demonstrated through my ankle bones. So I think the injuries I suffered actually prove the bullet does what it claims to do, rather than refute it. That said, I would have much rather conducted the test in ballistic gelatin, not my left foot. :)


Were those pictures from before or after the doc flossed it and opened it up more?

I kinda feel like he mutilated your poor foot more than neccasary!
 
Totally necessary, to try and avoid small foreign bodies in the wound. I had my foot torn open by the kickstarter of a motorcycle. Was an idiot and waited a day to go to the hospital and they had to spread the wound open and take steel wool type grit and rake the wound to abrade it.
 
When I first started sport motorcycle riding, I joined a group called BARF- the Bay Area Riders Forum; it's a lot like this forum. One of the things that struck me on this forum was the amount of people describing how they messed up, some with some pretty graphic pictures of road rash if they weren't wearing good / proper gear. I learned the abbreviation "ATGATT", for All The Gear, All The Time. Those stories and photographs made a strong impression on me as a n00b rider, and those stories kept my rolling on the throttle pretty moderate, especially on public roads.

And who (if you ride) hasn't seen the pictures of the girl whose boyfriend dumped them while she was riding with him- her wearing a tank top, short shorts, and flip flops. She had third degree burns from sliding on the asphalt on more than 30% of her body. Don't google that unless you're prepared.

And that's my point- you're doing a real public service here. People think "that won't happen to me", or "whatever"... it's all metaphysical and theoretical until you're bleeding and you can see tendons and meat that you shouldn't be seeing.

Maybe someone, having viewed your post, as their hand is descending to their grip, will just for a split second remember reading this thread, and slow down just that tiny bit that will make the difference between business as usual, or seeing tendons and meat.

Heal up soon!
 
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Were those pictures from before or after the doc flossed it and opened it up more?

I kinda feel like he mutilated your poor foot more than neccasary!
After. Not really. The problem is that they had to ensure that no extraneous powder, metal, bone fragments, shoe material, sock fragments, etc. were imbedded in the wound. One speck and it could lead to a bone and/or tissue infection. It's pretty standard medical practice to do that sort of extra debridement. A deep infection could cause the loss of my foot every bit as much as the wound itself.
 
@SynapticSilence , I hope you have paid leave from work. I feel for you, I got injured on a dirt bike before I had benefits at work and that was pretty rough. Be sure to keep us posted if you need a hand (or foot) around the house. Sorry, couldn't resist. Thank you for the reminder to always be diligent.
 
Chief, as others have offered, quick recovery!

But what did you learn from this incident? you mentioned you were in poor health of late, under med(s)?

If so, could they have altered your cognition to have been a contributor to your NGS injury?

While I will take a beating for suggesting it please take a moment and discuss with your Physician(s) the side effects of your current meds and Chief, please do this individual and your partner a huge favor, cease the oxycodone at your earliest opportunity and get on non-prescriptive pain control. Just cuz it is prescribed, always remember that despite your best intentions the Oxy sneaks up on you and quite literally can be worse than the NGS wound you sustained.

Thanks for your service Chief, and best wishes on a speedy recovery!
 
@SynapticSilence , I hope you have paid leave from work. I feel for you, I got injured on a dirt bike before I had benefits at work and that was pretty rough. Be sure to keep us posted if you need a hand (or foot) around the house. Sorry, couldn't resist. Thank you for the reminder to always be diligent.
Thanks. I'm retired from the Air Force, retired from Washington County Mental Health (State of Oregon retirement), have early Social Security retirement, get 80 percent service connected disability pay, and still have a contract with Multnomah County Mental Health where I work one or two days a week but can get others to fill in for me. And since I turned 65 on Monday, I've got Medicare with Tricare for Life (military retired health insurance) as secondary insurance. And I have a years younger wife who's a medical professional (psychiatric nurse practitioner) with a healthy income herself. So I'm a lucky man in all of those aspects. Everyone on the forum, you included, reminds me why I've enjoyed my posts, experiences, and interactions here. You're all a great bunch of people. Thanks for the offer and for caring. Luckily I've also got two adult kids in the local area who have jumped in and helped out since this happened. Again, I appreciate the comments and the support.
 
I only saw one mistake, the one where it was unknown if it was loaded.
Every gun is loaded, I have that stuck in my head. Don't care if its at Cabelas on a rack.
I was shot in the foot by my friend whom thought point at my foot was clearing his rifle was a good idea.
Sorry that happened to you, I have a dead toe nail that barely grows where it hit about 42 years ago.
I say only one mistake, because all the others only came after that one .......
 
Chief, as others have offered, quick recovery!

But what did you learn from this incident? you mentioned you were in poor health of late, under med(s)?

If so, could they have altered your cognition to have been a contributor to your NGS injury?

While I will take a beating for suggesting it please take a moment and discuss with your Physician(s) the side effects of your current meds and Chief, please do this individual and your partner a huge favor, cease the oxycodone at your earliest opportunity and get on non-prescriptive pain control. Just cuz it is prescribed, always remember that despite your best intentions the Oxy sneaks up on you and quite literally can be worse than the NGS wound you sustained.

Thanks for your service Chief, and best wishes on a speedy recovery!
No meds. I had two major neck surgeries in the first half of this year. As a result, I lost a lot of strength and stamina that I'm only now regaining and turning the corner on. The one possible area that may have complicated in this incident was my loss of control of the slide when it slipped out of my grip and slammed back into battery. The CZ 75D PCR (and CZs in general) have narrow slides that ride inside the frame, rather than outside the frame as in other semi-autos. Plus the fact that this was a new gun meant the recoil spring was still very tight and stiff. The combination of narrow slide, stiff recoil spring, and my diminished left hand strength all probably contributed to me losing purchase on the slide as I did. The slide slamming closed is also what caused the gun to shift in my right hand and move to where it was pointing down at my left foot instead of a neutral direction. So it wasn't being mentally foggy that did it. Just a combination of factors, all of which would have probably been ok if I hadn't been in such a frickin' hurry to get out of the house. Good idea to mention that, though. People who are on pain and other medications often think they're fine. But they're not. No way I'm carrying or shooting if I'm on any mind-altering substance.
 
Notice a couple guys talking about bikes and injuries, they've hurt me waaay worse than a 9mm.

While I may not have feeling in one finger and have a collapsed knuckle I've got 3 plates, 1 22" Titanium rod, 2 4" 'pins' and 19 screws in my body from dirt bikes. I've broken 19 bones riding (3 others in sports and a knuckle being a knucklehead), my wrists 5 times. In '10 I broke 5 at one time and laid on the trail for almost 2 hours in Feb until they carried me out to an ambulance. My worst day so far, where some of my metal parts came from including the rod.

There are many ways to hurt yourself and limiting your activities to things that won't hurt isn't living. Heck we all know our last day could be tomorrow, in light of that it's important to continue doing the things you love. Even after all those injuries I never once got on a bike and thought "I better be careful, I might crash today", 99% of the days are yeehaw days so why dwell on the 1% that's going to happen anyway.

I remember when I started riding on the street, in the back on my mind I'd say to myself "the law of averages is against me, the more I ride the closer I am to a crash". I rode into SE Portland from the west side for 2 years on a bike (all I had at the time), down 26, over the Ross Island and back. Eventually going to lunch one day I did crash, nothing major but it was like a wave of relief came over me as in my mind I'd reset my averages and was good to go for a while. Silly I know but on the other hand there's some truth there. I used to fish constantly, barbed myself through the finger one time, sharp hooks and all, handle them enough and eventually something happens. At least it wasn't me that got it in the back of the head, I was holding the rod that time :) When I went to the doc w/the hole in my hand, as she was irrigating it we were BS'ing (everyone was very cool about it) and she said "well you know, do something long enough...." I actually stopped her and and laughed saying it shouldn't be that way, it was because I was an idiot. But again, some truth there.

My big lesson was not to surrender to complacency, always be diligent around firearms. I've been handling them since I was a kid, I did get complacent and had done so many times prior to that. I used to snicker at guys who were uber cautious, after all it's just a gun. That was my reset, teaching young kids is how I reinforce it.

To the OP, don't let it slow you down or stop you from doing what you love. Never say never again (I hate superlatives) but know that you are now more experienced and have more to offer in the way of positively impacting those who handle firearms. 'I've been there, don't be like me' sorta thing, real life and all. Humbling a bit but you can still keep your head up and eyes steady while saying it knowing that it's behind you and you're better in some way because of it (gotta look on the bright side right :))

Sorta like an Allman, rambling.......
 
Ever since my negligent pistol discharge and injury yesterday morning, I've been pondering whether to post anything here. I'm embarrassed, feel stupid, and am kicking myself for violating the cardinal rule of handling guns — never be in a hurry. Someone referred to me once in my trading feedback as a "legend of the forum." Well, that wasn't really accurate in the first place. But it's in no way accurate now. I think I have to go back to square one after negligently (not accidentally) shooting myself in the foot.

I hadn't been able to go shooting for at least three months due to health problems, but finally felt great on Monday. So I was transferring a few pistols from my safe to my range bag to take with me. I was clearing each of them and finally got to my CZ 75D PCR 9mm. I checked the chamber and, to my surprise, noticed it was loaded, which meant I hadn't unloaded it when I moved it from my bedside table safe to the main safe. Mistake number one. I was also in a hurry to get out the door. Mistake number two.

As I prepared to clear it, I accidentally dropped the fairly stiffly sprung slide (new gun) back into battery. Mistake number three. What I also didn't notice was that in pressing the slide back and seeing the round in the chamber, I must have also cocked the pistol somehow. Mistake number four. And when the slide dropped, my grip slipped with the result that I painted my left foot with the barrel. Mistake number five. Also, when the slide dropped, I must have had my finger in the trigger guard, because the firearm suddenly discharged, sending a 9mm Underwood 90 grain XTreme Defender bullet traveling at 1420 FPS through the right top of my left foot, through a couple of large bones in my foot/ankle, and out the left side of my foot just above the pad on the bottom. Mistake (big mistake) number six.

The initial moment of disbelief following my first negligent discharge in over 55 years of firearms handling was quickly followed by a whole bunch of pain. That , however, was quickly replaced by an adrenaline-fueled mental rush telling me to assess the damage I'd done to myself. Of course, I was home alone. mistake number seven. And I realized I didn't really know where my cell phone was. Mistake number eight.

A visual check showed the round had gone through the top of my shoe, my sock, and the top of my foot. I was bleeding like a stuck pig all over the floor, but I found no signs of arterial bleeding. So I managed to hobble into my office down the hall, retrieve my cell phone, and call 911. The 911 operator instructed me to stay calm, made sure I hadn't been trying to kill myself, directed me to keep pressure on it, and alerted the Sheriff and an ambulance to respond to my house. I took myself out on the front porch to wait on them. They arrived within minutes.

It wasn't until they arrived that I realized the bullet had gone through and through. They got me in the ambulance while the deputies secured my gun (keeping it until I'm out of the hospital) and closed up my house. Then off I went to the Emergency Department at PeaceHealth Southwest Medical Center where I was evaluated and whisked off to surgery to assess the damage and clean out the wound.

For some reason known only to god, I missed every single artery and tendon in my foot. I missed the flexor tendon in the top of my foot by a mere millimeter. If I'd hit it, I wouldn't have been able to raise the front of my foot. I missed both the arteries by a whisker. And I didn't damage a major nerve. Interestingly, the flutes on the nose of the solid copper Underwood bullet essentially acted like a drill, boring a hole through two of the larger bones in my foot before exiting out the left side. The surgeon said it was a perfect line from entry to exit, so much so that a straight metal probe stuck through the entry wound went through my foot without a single obstruction. He also ran a length of sterile gauze soaked in antibiotics all the way through to "floss" my foot by moving it back and forth to remove bone chips and any debris from my shoe and sock that may have been dragged into the wound. Additionally, he had to enlarge the entry and exit holes to about 2-3" to effectively flush and clean the wound out.

So now I'm in the hospital until at least Thursday. The greatest danger now that things have been cleaned up is the risk of infection, so I've been on IV antibiotics since admission. They'll be taking me back to surgery tomorrow to close the wounds as much as possible, since as they are now they might never heal by themselves.

The pain has been well controlled by Oxycodone. I won't be able to bear weight on it for several weeks at least, but presumably I won't have any lasting physical restrictions. And I count my lucky stars that I somehow came through what is certainly the most insanely negligent and severe physical injury I've had in my lifetime — All because of a cascading series of mistakes that had me clearing a gun in a hurry that should have already been cleared in the first place.

I hope forum members can read this and see the severity of the injuries I caused myself and learn from it. I'm not setting myself out as an example of anything except perhaps an arrogant fool. I had convinced myself that this could never happen to me because of all the years I've had handling firearms without incident. Mistake number nine, the mistake I hope this story impresses upon everyone who reads it. It can happen to you and possibly will the moment you convince yourself you're immune from being constantly vigilant about following all the rules of firearms safety.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm back to square one in terms of proving myself to myself. And proving myself to my amazing wife, who probably has been more traumatized than I have as a result of my own stupid impatience to get to the gun range. Feel free to comment here. I'm open to anything, including scathing remarks about my lack of discipline. That's because there wasn't a single thing accidental about this. The proper term is negligent, one I have to now fully embrace before I allow myself to pick up a gun again.

Full color pics follow. Squeamish people need not apply. On the entry wound, you can see what appears to be a whitish bone running top to bottom. That's actually the flexor tendon I mentioned. When I flexed my foot while the wound was unwrapped, I could watch it move up and down. Another reason they need to close my wounds tomorrow is that exposed tendons tend to die quickly. This is apparently not a good thing.

Again, this was the first negligent discharge I've had in over 55 years. But one is more than enough. Don't let this happen to you.
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Good cautionary tale. A sobering reminder that we all need to be diligent in our safety protocols, no matter how experienced we are. Thanks for sharing.
 
Notice a couple guys talking about bikes and injuries, they've hurt me waaay worse than a 9mm.

While I may not have feeling in one finger and have a collapsed knuckle I've got 3 plates, 1 22" Titanium rod, 2 4" 'pins' and 19 screws in my body from dirt bikes. I've broken 19 bones riding (3 others in sports and a knuckle being a knucklehead), my wrists 5 times. In '10 I broke 5 at one time and laid on the trail for almost 2 hours in Feb until they carried me out to an ambulance.
Dang! I almost feel lucky. Thanks for the perspective. :)
 
I was going to note on this, when I am under the weather for what ever reason, I wont touch a firearm unless a deadly threat was imminent. Firearms are for use with a clear mind and is also why hold my beer and hand me that shotgun do not work.
Even if one is a little off that day, best air on the side of caution.
 
Like so many others have said, thank you for this reminder to all of us. I posted a year or so ago about my mistake with ammo and the luck I had no thanks to me. We are human and all going to have bad days. In this field, it's helpful to share them as reminders to others. Thanks for such a well written documentation. Prayers to you for a speedy recovery.
 
Totally necessary, to try and avoid small foreign bodies in the wound. I had my foot torn open by the kickstarter of a motorcycle. Was an idiot and waited a day to go to the hospital and they had to spread the wound open and take steel wool type grit and rake the wound to abrade it.
They have these new self-cleaning shotgun rounds to skip that step next time.


not really
 
When I first started sport motorcycle riding, I joined a group called BARF- the Bay Area Riders Forum; it's a lot like this forum. One of the things that struck me on this forum was the amount of people describing how they messed up, some with some pretty graphic pictures of road rash if they weren't wearing good / proper gear. I learned the abbreviation "ATGATT", for All The Gear, All The Time. Those stories and photographs made a strong impression on me as a n00b rider, and those stories kept my rolling on the throttle pretty moderate, especially on public roads.

And who (if you ride) hasn't seen the pictures of the girl whose boyfriend dumped them while she was riding with him- her wearing a tank top, short shorts, and flip flops. She had third degree burns from sliding on the asphalt on more than 30% of her body. Don't google that unless you're prepared.

And that's my point- you're doing a real public service here. People think "that won't happen to me", or "whatever"... it's all metaphysical and theoretical until you're bleeding and you can see tendons and meat that you shouldn't be seeing.

Maybe someone, having viewed your post, as their hand is descending to their grip, will just for a split second remember reading this thread, and slow down just that tiny bit that will make the difference between business as usual, or seeing tendons and meat.

Heal up soon!
Good point. I occasionally work around/with high pressure lines/hoses and knew about "injection wounds" from day one but it didn't really hit home to my brainbone until I googled an injury or two and read the accounts of it happening.. before reading that and seeing the gruesome wounds I very likely would have acted much as they had (quickly and without thinking) and gotten myself mangled up too.
 

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