When should we buy metals? Silver, Platinum, Gold, etc?

[RX-79G]

Try "reading" my message again I said PM's are A tool in the survival kit, NOT the only tool. And yes, before there were civilizations, people did use barter but when they became civilizations, they used money in the form of silver, gold and copper coins. Do you really think humanity will fall all the way back to the stone age? That we will start from scratch? We'll all be doing the Bartertown thing from the Road Warrior movies forever? Well, if that's your fantasy,, have fun with it. Personally, I think that we would rebuild society. It's what humans have done throughout history. It's what we do. And if I'm right about that, then even if I don't live to see it, my kids or grandkids will and the PM's I have saved will help them in that new society.
So yes, you're damn straight I plan on living through any "poop storm"/collapse. If you don't think you're going to make it through the poop storm then you should probably hang yourself now to save yourself a lot of suffering.

And you're wrong about silver (and gold) Your hammers build things Gold and silver build civilizations including the ability to build, defend, and create.
Think bigger.

I think you're failing to realize there are other possibiities besides going back to a previous economic model. As I pointed out, gold, silver (and copper) were precious in part because of their industrial functions, not just because people used them as money and jewelry. But modern goods don't need them nearly as much because we have all sorts of substitutes, not to mention an incredible amount of scrap. The last time silver really mattered, there was no such thing as refined aluminum or stainless steel. The world has changed and it can't just change back.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I think you're failing to realize there are other possibiities besides going back to a previous economic model. As I pointed out, gold, silver (and copper) were precious in part because of their industrial functions, not just because people used them as money and jewelry. But modern goods don't need them nearly as much because we have all sorts of substitutes, not to mention an incredible amount of scrap. The last time silver really mattered, there was no such thing as refined aluminum or stainless steel. The world has changed and it can't just change back.

Oh ffs, the only thing to realize is realized gains or losses.

 

[GWS]

Well thank you for showing me that rationale discussion is dead. I can see by your responses it is not me living in fantasy as I do not base any of my decisions or thinking on movies or hyperbole. I wish you endless riches in your future Utopian society that you and your offspring create.

I suspect you have more in common with your bag of hammers than I originally thought. Good luck to you. I think you're going to need it
And it's rational discussion, not rationale.
Happy hammering!

 

[GWS]

I think you're failing to realize there are other possibiities besides going back to a previous economic model. As I pointed out, gold, silver (and copper) were precious in part because of their industrial functions, not just because people used them as money and jewelry. But modern goods don't need them nearly as much because we have all sorts of substitutes, not to mention an incredible amount of scrap. The last time silver really mattered, there was no such thing as refined aluminum or stainless steel. The world has changed and it can't just change back.

I think what you're failing to realize is that having PM's is simply covering a bet, like having extra food, guns or ammo. But I'll ask you this--If silver doesn't matter, then why is it trading at over $25 an ounce? Why is gold trading at $1954 per ounce? Clearly more people than me find it valuable.
PMs are a more compact medium of exchange than stainless steel or aluminum which is the whole purpose of money. A civilization needs money to transact business in an efficient manner. Having people trading in truckloads of steel is neither efficient or sustainable and things like the internet may not be running for things like bitcoin. And after an economic collapse, fiat currency will primarily be used for tinder or toilet paper. Hard assets such as silver and gold will be valued. At least that's my opinion.
However I acknowledge I could be missing something. What means of trade do you see as possible. post-Bartertown?

 

[RX-79G]

I think what you're failing to realize is that having PM's is simply covering a bet, like having extra food, guns or ammo. But I'll ask you this--If silver doesn't matter, then why is it trading at over $25 an ounce? Why is gold trading at $1954 per ounce? Clearly more people than me find it valuable.
PMs are a more compact medium of exchange than stainless steel or aluminum which is the whole purpose of money. A civilization needs money to transact business in an efficient manner. Having people trading in truckloads of steel is neither efficient or sustainable and things like the internet may not be running for things like bitcoin. And after an economic collapse, fiat currency will primarily be used for tinder or toilet paper. Hard assets such as silver and gold will be valued. At least that's my opinion.
However I acknowledge I could be missing something. What means of trade do you see as possible. post-Bartertown?

It is valuable in this, pre-collapse world.

I think I already mentioned heirloom seed stock. Water handling equipment.

 

[ma96782]

12 pages and some people refuse to don't get it...

Yup.....like with all your investments. Just......

Buy low and Sell high.

Aloha, Mark

 

[GWS]

It is valuable in this, pre-collapse world.

I think I already mentioned heirloom seed stock. Water handling equipment.

But PMs having value in pre-collapse world is why they will still have value post-collapse. PMs are a known quantity. An ounce of gold or silver is a measurable quantity and difficult to fake.
How does a person know the seeds you are selling are viable? If you're selling plant starts, how do I know they're heirloom plants/seeds? I don't mean to imply you personally would cheat folks, but as a first time buyer, how would I know a seller's seeds are the real deal? By the time they sprouted (or did not sprout) the seller is long gone.
However, while heirloom seeds and water handling equipment are indeed valuable, they are still barter items and yes, I acknowledge barter will be going on for a while, but not forever. I'm asking about a post-barter world.

What do you think the currency of the world will be when it rises out of barter? To have an efficient economy you need a stable currency. Heirloom seeds will not do the job

 

[Mono1]

The answer to the question in the thread Title is: "Yesterday".

We have recently seen a bullish breakout of a "Cup and Handle" formation which is extremely bullish. This recent Cup and Handle formed between 2011 and 2022, or over about ten years. The last Cup and Handle formed between 1996 and 2005, taking about ten years as well to form.

Once the signal came from that last 2005 breakout, gold moved from $400 to $1900 in six years. A nearly 400 percent return in six years time.

Here is some additional information on the formation:

The Korelin Economics Report

View attachment 1151123

Briefly went above $2,000 again today (spot). Typically Cup & Handles result in a breakout that is multiples higher; 3X, 4X, 5X.

This guy agrees:

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[gmerkt]

I think you're failing to realize there are other possibiities besides going back to a previous economic model. As I pointed out, gold, silver (and copper) were precious in part because of their industrial functions, not just because people used them as money and jewelry. But modern goods don't need them nearly as much because we have all sorts of substitutes, not to mention an incredible amount of scrap. The last time silver really mattered, there was no such thing as refined aluminum or stainless steel. The world has changed and it can't just change back.

Point well made. But silver was valuable as a monetary metal way back to the days of ancient Greece, long before industrial uses were subsequently found for it.

I think what you're failing to realize is that having PM's is simply covering a bet, like having extra food, guns or ammo. But I'll ask you this--If silver doesn't matter, then why is it trading at over $25 an ounce? Why is gold trading at $1954 per ounce? Clearly more people than me find it valuable.

It is a bet. But a pretty solid one compared to others. The Chinese are still socking away lots of gold. A few decades ago, central banks were referring to gold as a "barbaric relic" per Keynes. These days, they are buyers. My bet: A collapse or catastrophic erosion of the US Dollar (and maybe many other currencies) is more likely that a complete "end of the world as we know it" type event. As little as a couple of years ago, I thought the decline of the USD would be a longer-drawn-out affair. It is now beginning to appear that time horizon may be shorter.

How does a person know the seeds you are selling are viable?

Seed packs have an expiration date on the back. Which is inexact science, because some seeds, properly stored, will last a very long time. Others may have a high failure rate of germination if they get too old. Out of curiosity, scientists have gotten seeds that were a couple thousand years old to grow. Modern hybridized agricultural seeds, who knows.

 

[RX-79G]

But PMs having value in pre-collapse world is why they will still have value post-collapse. PMs are a known quantity. An ounce of gold or silver is a measurable quantity and difficult to fake.
How does a person know the seeds you are selling are viable? If you're selling plant starts, how do I know they're heirloom plants/seeds? I don't mean to imply you personally would cheat folks, but as a first time buyer, how would I know a seller's seeds are the real deal? By the time they sprouted (or did not sprout) the seller is long gone.
However, while heirloom seeds and water handling equipment are indeed valuable, they are still barter items and yes, I acknowledge barter will be going on for a while, but not forever. I'm asking about a post-barter world.

What do you think the currency of the world will be when it rises out of barter? To have an efficient economy you need a stable currency. Heirloom seeds will not do the job

I think there is no reason to presume that intrinsic value currency is a natural part of the world. We could suffer a collapse and still have electronic banking - keeping some networks running might be simple and stabilizing. For instance.

 

[GWS]

I think there is no reason to presume that intrinsic value currency is a natural part of the world. We could suffer a collapse and still have electronic banking - keeping some networks running might be simple and stabilizing. For instance.

Nor should you presume that IVC would be available either, and if its not available everywhere, it doesn't work. What value is Bitcoin to a guy in an area without access to electronic banking?

 

[RX-79G]

Nor should you presume that IVC would be available either, and if its not available everywhere, it doesn't work. What value is Bitcoin to a guy in an area without access to electronic banking?

What's silver to him, either? But it isn't about traveling to Paris on holiday. Economies will be local.

 

[GWS]

What's silver to him, either? But it isn't about traveling to Paris on holiday. Economies will be local.

Seriously? The silver is a tangible, real item.. It's something he recognize and and physically hold in his hand. Bitcoin is anything but that. What other currency is there where millions can be lost, with no recourse, because you forgot your password? Economies being local is still early/barter time. I am still waiting for what you think will be the currency when civilization is newly back, when there is commerce between cities states and nations? And lets pretend there is no World Wide Web. I mean really now, Has the world actually collapsed if the power is still on AND we have the internet?
What is the currency of the next civilization?
eta Every civilization on earth wants gold and silver Its part of the human zeitgeist

I think there is no reason to presume that intrinsic value currency is a natural part of the world.

I had to read that again
How is intrinsic value currency such as gold or silver not a part of the world, natural or otherwise? Its here. it's real tangible and since it presumably came from this planet, it is indeed natural. Its as real as it gets.
If the grid failed/we got hit with massive EMP/civilization collapsed tonight. anybody who has gold, silver or other PMs in his or her physical possession now would still have it tomorrow The same would not apply for my Bitcoin and probably my bank account, though there might be some recourse with the bank.

 

[gmerkt]

electronic banking

Cyber dollars are no less vulnerable than paper currency. In fact, maybe moreso.

Bitcoin thefts involving hundreds of millions of dollars worth are a good example of how it could go with electronic credits.

 

[RX-79G]

Seriously? The silver is a tangible, real item.. It's something he recognize and and physically hold in his hand.

Yeah, silver is a commodity. Like wheat and fur. Or silver can be used as specie, but that only works if there is a network of some sort that recognizes an exchange rate. Historically, there wasn't a silver exchange rate between countries until fairly late.

And I'm pointing out that silver might not be an important commodity in the future if it is no longer being used to back a currency or have a commodity market to set a price. It becomes a soft metal useful for certain reactions, many of which are still in practice.

Bitcoin is anything but that.

Who said anything about Bitcoin? I was talking about electronic banking, which has the advantage of replacing money in having an exchange rate and not being something that requires you to stockpile stuff to pay for what you need. Human beings have been dealing with non-real money for many generations and it makes more sense to most of them now than thinking in terms of a gold standard. People just need to decide to sign up for the same encrypted banking scheme or network so it is useful.

How is intrinsic value currency such as gold or silver not a part of the world, natural or otherwise? Its here. it's real tangible and since it presumably came from this planet, it is indeed natural. Its as real as it gets.

For the same reason that diamonds, which are common as dirt, are thought to be valuable. Because there are markets, marketing and supply controls that make them valuable. Silver and gold have been used for a very long time as the kings of commodity because they don't rust away, are easy to refine, recycle and measure. But they aren't necessarily valuable to modern survival as they once were. An awful lot has changed about the way people think about and display wealth. Precious objects are just not anywhere near as important as they once were. And the engineering value of gold and silver have been reduced by other processes and alloys that we didn't use to have.

Silver might be useful after some sort of fall, but I'm pointing out to you that you're presuming that old standards will continue, but that's not really how it works. People not so long ago thought their leaders were gods and that there were immobile classes of people. We're unlikely to go back to that, just as we are unlikely to go back to company towns and fur trapping.

 

[GWS]

Yeah, silver is a commodity. Like wheat and fur. Or silver can be used as specie, but that only works if there is a network of some sort that recognizes an exchange rate. Historically, there wasn't a silver exchange rate between countries until fairly late.

And I'm pointing out that silver might not be an important commodity in the future if it is no longer being used to back a currency or have a commodity market to set a price. It becomes a soft metal useful for certain reactions, many of which are still in practice.

The network already exists and will exist after a collapse. People have always desired silver and gold. They are known items of value. People won't forget that, though There may be a time when PMs aren't as desirable but once things start to stabilize, they will regain their value. Diamonds may indeed be the biggest joke played on people as you said, common as dirt. Hell, they're used for sandpaper but gold and silver are not as common. Their processing and refinement are part of their value.

Who said anything about Bitcoin? I was talking about electronic banking, which has the advantage of replacing money in having an exchange rate and not being something that requires you to stockpile stuff to pay for what you need. Human beings have been dealing with non-real money for many generations and it makes more sense to most of them now than thinking in terms of a gold standard. People just need to decide to sign up for the same encrypted banking scheme or network so it is useful.

Sorry about inferring Bitcoin, but it is a form of electronic banking, just not, apparently the kind you are talking about. That said, if they can keep electronic banking working, I would think there hasn't been a collapse. If it all did go down, I personally don't see electronic banking coming on line until farther down the line as civilization rebuilds. Probably not in my lifetime. OTOH, If you're right then civilization gets back running like now and we're all happy and comfortable. A win. Personally, I think it will take a while to get things like electronic banking going and that's why I'm covering my bet with silver. If things get working sooner, all the better, but if not, I'm covered (or not)
Again, PMs are not the end all, be all. They are a tool to be used if necessary. I think they will be necessary, but if not, I have other tools as well

 

[RX-79G]

The network already exists and will exist after a collapse. People have always desired silver and gold. They are known items of value. People won't forget that, though There may be a time when PMs aren't as desirable but once things start to stabilize, they will regain their value. Diamonds may indeed be the biggest joke played on people as you said, common as dirt. Hell, they're used for sandpaper but gold and silver are not as common. Their processing and refinement are part of their value.


Sorry about inferring Bitcoin, but it is a form of electronic banking, just not, apparently the kind you are talking about. That said, if they can keep electronic banking is working I would think there hasn't been a collapse. If it all did go down, I personally don't see electronic banking coming on line until farther down the line as civilization rebuilds. Probably not in my lifetime. OTOH, If you're right then civilization gets back running like now and we're all happy and comfortable. A win. Personally, I think it will take a while to get things like electronic banking going and that's why I'm covering my bet with silver. If things get working sooner, all the better, but if not, I'm covered (or not)
Again, PMs are not the end all, be all. They are a tool to be used if necessary. I think they will be necessary, but if not, I have other tools as well

I think you are just assuming that collapse and restoration will happen like a time machine. But some electronics will survive, others won't. Some processes will come back, many won't be needed. People won't forget how to make electricity.

 

[GWS]

I think you are just assuming that collapse and restoration will happen like a time machine. But some electronics will survive, others won't. Some processes will come back, many won't be needed. People won't forget how to make electricity.

Depends on the level of collapse, wouldn't you say ? And knowing how to make electricity is useless without the means to make it. Again the level of collapse determines how far back in time we go be it caveman? Horse and buggy? 1950's or last week.

 

[RX-79G]

Depends on the level of collapse, wouldn't you say ? And knowing how to make electricity is useless without the means to make it. Again the level of collapse determines how far back in time we go be it caveman? Horse and buggy? 1950's or last week.

The 1950s didn't have solar and low wattage electronics. That's what I'm getting at - you could have no electrical grid, but still have the ability to do low power electrical things. Of food could be plentiful but nothing else. It isn't likely to look like some past era.

 

[GWS]

The 1950s didn't have solar and low wattage electronics. That's what I'm getting at - you could have no electrical grid, but still have the ability to do low power electrical things. Of food could be plentiful but nothing else. It isn't likely to look like some past era.

These discussions are based on worst case scenarios. Hence prepping for the worst puts you in shape for anything less than the worst. . That's generally what the whole exercise is about..