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Fixed it for you, the US like many other countries is currently planning to complete the transition to a cashless society. This Biden build back nonsense actually has language for such a move along with giving the IRS live access to your banking and other financial information to ensure you pay your "fair share" any transaction of $600 or larger is the proposed threshold.


PM's will withstand the test of time. Cash is dying being replaced with digital currencies .
 

Certaindeaf

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Its a fact
The metals I bought back in the day are still 400+ % over what I paid for them
Where your PM profit margin is is your affair and where mine is is mine. Some guy saying they lost 10% recently , well that's tough for people who bought PM's on the market high and my advice to them would be ride it out. It will rise again.
Yea, that matters zero to me or anyone else since no one has a time machine. All that matters going forward is the historical rate of return encompassing the entire history of said artifact or vehicle.
 

GWS

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Yea, that matters zero to me or anyone else since no one has a time machine. All that matters going forward is the historical rate of return encompassing the entire history of said artifact or vehicle.
Its of no consequence whether it matters to you or others. It's my situation it's only important to me.
 

Soli

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Re: private digital currencies replacing specie. <--- fancy word for money there.

It won't happen.

The notion that any nation/gov would not control its currency is ludicrous.

Private digital currency is just like PMs, or anything else, a form of barter. Gov will only accept payment (taxes) in its currency, and that will always be controlled by said gov.
 
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This is an old thread, but in investing timing is all-important. Investing is fairly simple - if you know the basics. Get a good chart and track prices of the metal you want to invest in such as gold. When the market is going crazy and gold is going up, that is NOT the time to buy. Remember the investor's "golden rule" - buy low, sell high. Wait and be patient, when Gold tanks or a major "dip" in price - that is the time to buy (If you are a gold investor). Every investor should own some precious metals even though they are arguably a bad investment when compared to a mutual fund that invests in growth and income stocks such as Vanguard Growth & Income Funds. But Gold has an added benefit - in a failing economy, it is going to be one of the few things retaining value. Do not get overly influenced by the scare tactics of naysayers though. The chances of our economy failing, in the near future is nill. But people who refuse to invest in gold and silver are ignoring all the possibilities! Also, having gold can be of great advantage when it comes to the tax system we are burdened with. You can argue with me, but I have been investing for 60 years and I have seen and experienced many different states of our economy - ignore my advice at your own peril. Ha -Ha!
 

gmerkt

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When the market is going crazy and gold is going up, that is NOT the time to buy. Remember the investor's "golden rule" - buy low, sell high. Wait and be patient, when Gold tanks or a major "dip" in price - that is the time to buy
^^ This. Paying attention to pricing trends over the course of time provides some guidance. It gets interesting now because our government is throwing money around in quantities of Trillions, so we have no previous track record to observe that includes that factor in the formula. As a consequence, I believe the floor for some PM's is now cyclically higher than previously.

There are some predictions that gold may be slightly up from present at year's end, maybe climb a bit higher early '22, then possibly dip to 1,500 as the economy picks up and interest rates increase. BUT: Higher interest rates portend some continued level of inflation which in the past has helped support PM prices. So this advice is conflicted. AND: A low of $1,500 is a significantly higher low than previous cycles but that idea is tempered by the time value of money.

precious metals even though they are arguably a bad investment
They don't provide interest or dividends. Nor do some of the high-flying equities, like Amazon or Alphabet (Google). They rely strictly on asset appreciation. Precious metals are more in the nature of insurance against an uncertain future.
 

Burt Gummer

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Bought some casino .999 silver coins. Not ounce coins, but about .77 ounce - thin, but they look like ounce coins. Weighed them with the seller and there was no argument. He was a little embarrassed and sold them to me at $2 under melt each.
S/G isn't a top priority at all, but when a deal comes along anything is better than a fiat currency earning -0- interest in a bank.
 
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^^ This. Paying attention to pricing trends over the course of time provides some guidance. It gets interesting now because our government is throwing money around in quantities of Trillions, so we have no previous track record to observe that includes that factor in the formula. As a consequence, I believe the floor for some PM's is now cyclically higher than previously.

There are some predictions that gold may be slightly up from present at year's end, maybe climb a bit higher early '22, then possibly dip to 1,500 as the economy picks up and interest rates increase. BUT: Higher interest rates portend some continued level of inflation which in the past has helped support PM prices. So this advice is conflicted. AND: A low of $1,500 is a significantly higher low than previous cycles but that idea is tempered by the time value of money.


They don't provide interest or dividends. Nor do some of the high-flying equities, like Amazon or Alphabet (Google). They rely strictly on asset appreciation. Precious metals are more in the nature of insurance against an uncertain future.
I was with you until you suggested gold was a hedge against inflation. To be a good hedge. gold should have a close relationship (price-wise) to inflation or equities. Gold does not. Historically there are really only two or three (short) periods where this was not true since the 1930s. Gold has a mystique and always will. The value it has to me is that of anonymity in an uncertain economy where wealth can be transferred or held without our banking system tattling on us.

When someone predicts the price changes in gold, there are just too many factors for anyone to be believed. That is why it pays to be vigilant and informed - buy low and sell high and you will always outperform the masses. Please understand that I do own a bit of gold so I am not saying stay away, rather buy it when the price makes sense.
One of the best explanations of gold investing is here:
 

gmerkt

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I was with you until you suggested gold was a hedge against inflation.
Yes and no. I don't think I actually said gold was a hedge against inflation. In times of inflation, some people, having that perception, have flocked to it. And fears of inflation have caused gold prices to react upward. A fear reaction. In our lifetimes, these events have typically been followed by a decline. So it's certainly not bullet proof in the shorter term.

BUT - and it's a big one - long range, gold has performed as a store of value in contant terms. Which if you don't want to call it a hedge against inflation, it's been an equalizer.

Between 1971 and 2019 (which doesn't include the Covid era), gold had a return average of 10 point something percent. Which isn't a hedge, that's appreciation. Which includes some real downdraft periods, so hitting a high point for liquidation is important.

I don't think people should "invest" in gold, my opinion is that it's not that kind of vehicle. People who want to gamble, fine, they can be traders. But for people who just want their money to work for them, gold isn't for most of them. It's not as stable as equities typically are in the short term. Buying gold for insurance, that's my personal concept of it. Because whatever you want to call it, I'll bet Germans who had gold in 1923 where a lot happier than those who had paper.
 
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Sure! Written expressions on such an emotional issue as gold can be/are challenging, but I think we agree that gold has its place but there are much better vehicles for an investing plan - as you have stated so well.
 

coltemp

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Yes and no. I don't think I actually said gold was a hedge against inflation. In times of inflation, some people, having that perception, have flocked to it. And fears of inflation have caused gold prices to react upward. A fear reaction. In our lifetimes, these events have typically been followed by a decline. So it's certainly not bullet proof in the shorter term.

BUT - and it's a big one - long range, gold has performed as a store of value in contant terms. Which if you don't want to call it a hedge against inflation, it's been an equalizer.

Between 1971 and 2019 (which doesn't include the Covid era), gold had a return average of 10 point something percent. Which isn't a hedge, that's appreciation. Which includes some real downdraft periods, so hitting a high point for liquidation is important.

I don't think people should "invest" in gold, my opinion is that it's not that kind of vehicle. People who want to gamble, fine, they can be traders. But for people who just want their money to work for them, gold isn't for most of them. It's not as stable as equities typically are in the short term. Buying gold for insurance, that's my personal concept of it. Because whatever you want to call it, I'll bet Germans who had gold in 1923 where a lot happier than those who had paper.
Was with you until your last paragraph which is somewhat true but also less than good advice as well.
What I think you have missed and missed the boat on (Along with a bunch of other comments by others with little understanding of history and finance) is depending on the type of investor and the size of your investable assets plays an important part.

Traditionally those with roughly 10-15% of their portfolio invested in precious metals have far outperformed those without over the long haul. Gold/Silver and others are a hedge as they maintain a certain value relative to the buying power of the fiat currency in place. As you noted PM's are considered a safe harbor when monetary messes occur. Also as investments, they tend to be slower to correct and slow to come to full value. They are for investors who have sizable portfolios and provide a level of diversification that other assets do not. Also, they are more easily liquid than many other hard assets. That liquidity is something that other investments that tend to be inflation resistant or that perform well under inflation (like real estate) that gives it an edge and desirability.

Sure! Written expressions on such an emotional issue as gold can be/are challenging, but I think we agree that gold has its place but there are much better vehicles for an investing plan - as you have stated so well.
As I stated before you are missing a critical part of diversification by ignoring PM's. If you are a low net worth investor there are probably better places to put your money because you have little to invest and weather any storms. For higher net worth you end up ignoring a segment of the market that can have large moves. PM's form the base for secure investments. Doesn't mean that it is generally wise to be overloaded, but the USA lags far behind the rest of the world when it comes to PM. The average (And I mean average) is around 1 to 2% invested. Tells you there are a ton of people chasing paper in the stock market or crypto and not many wise people who have invested there AND in PM.

When the current FIAT currency becomes worth less and less it's those who hold tangible goods that are in the best position to profit.
 

gmerkt

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Was with you until your last paragraph which is somewhat true but also less than good advice as well.
What I think you have missed and missed the boat on (Along with a bunch of other comments by others with little understanding of history and finance) is depending on the type of investor and the size of your investable assets plays an important part.
Agreed, I tend not to think in those terms. Because while i'm not poor, I'm certainly not wealthy. People/institutions with the substance to make big moves can afford to cover all the bases, come what may.

Gold/Silver and others are a hedge as they maintain a certain value relative to the buying power of the fiat currency in place.
This is the virtue of PM that I prize.

the USA lags far behind the rest of the world when it comes to PM. The average (And I mean average) is around 1 to 2% invested. Tells you there are a ton of people chasing paper in the stock market or crypto and not many wise people who have invested there AND in PM.
Many in the US don't have $500 cash saved for a rainy day should they need it, according to a couple of polls done in recent years. Those people can't be expected to set anything aside for PM purchase. But of those who are able, saving in general isn't a particular strength among average citizens. We've had a different history from the rest of the world for too long for anyone to remember truly Hard Times. But the experience does come down second hand to some of us. The comfortable American life is more encouraging of buying a boat or RV than saving PM for a time they may never have to experience.
 
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I am guessing I am younger than most of you on here at 31, but I was smart enough to buy somewhere around 1,000 Troy oz of silver last time when it was at $14. I was in college, made good money as a waiter, and super frugal, paid tuition in cash. Graduated, got married, and started house hunting in the north Seattle area. After punching numbers and looking at trends I realized that the housing market was going to leave us in the dust, so I dumped all my Silver, and about 4 motorcycles, a car, basically everything but my guns, and we were able to put 20% down on a house. Fixed literally everything by hand, dug my own septic field, did 3 remodels, and we just sold that baby for double what we bought it for in 4 years time. I still don't really know the wisest investment strategies, but ive learned a few things:

-Fix/build everything myself (a few exceptions, but not much).
-Drive old vehicles, and fix them when they break.
-PM have their place, and in my opinion will always hold value. Specifically gold and silver for me, but right now real estate is doing the heavy lifting for me. Ill keep an eye on the market, and likely jump back into silver once it dips below $20
 
Last Edited:

coltemp

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I am guessing I am younger than most of you on here at 31, but I was smart enough to buy somewhere around 1,000 Troy oz of silver last time when it was at $14. I was in college, made good money as a waiter, and super frugal, paid tuotion in cash. Graduated, got married, and started house hunting in the north Seattle area. After punching numbers and looking at trends I realized that the housing market was going to leave us in the dust, so I dumped all my Silver, and about 4 motorcycles, a car, basically everything but my guns, and we were able to put 20% down on a house. Fixed literally everything by hand, dug my own septic field, did 3 remodels, and we just sold that baby for double what we bought it for in 4 years time. I still don't really know the wisest investment strategies, but ive learned a few things:

-Fix/build everything myself (a few exceptions, but not much).
-Drive old vehicles, and fix them when they break.
-PM have their place, and in my opinion will always hold value. Specifically gold and silver for me, but right now real estate is doing the heavy lifting for me. Ill keep an eye on the market, and likely jump back into silver once it dips below $20
Sounds like your timing was very good. I also bought plenty at 14 and more in the '20s. But I think that the price of silver has been suppressed for way too long. The ratio is nowhere near where it should be and the classic holding pattern is in place.
Would be great if it did drop below 20 again but I'm not sure it will with the inflation and price surges that have been happening in everything else.
Home prices have done great and your advice is very good. BUT I'm not sure that holding much more than your personal home is such a good idea right now. Way too many landlords are stuck right now will property (esp commercial) they can't rent. Or residential with non-paying non-evictable people living off you. I do still have 1 rental property left but we have been kicking around selling it as well. Cashing out while the market is crazy high before it all crashes.
 

gmerkt

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I am guessing I am younger than most of you on here at 31, but I was smart enough to buy somewhere around 1,000 Troy oz of silver last time when it was at $14. I was in college, made good money as a waiter, and super frugal, paid tuotion in cash. Graduated, got married, and started house hunting in the north Seattle area. After punching numbers and looking at trends I realized that the housing market was going to leave us in the dust, so I dumped all my Silver, and about 4 motorcycles, a car, basically everything but my guns, and we were able to put 20% down on a house. Fixed literally everything by hand, dug my own septic field, did 3 remodels, and we just sold that baby for double what we bought it for in 4 years time. I still don't really know the wisest investment strategies, but ive learned a few things:

-Fix/build everything myself (a few exceptions, but not much).
-Drive old vehicles, and fix them when they break.
-PM have their place, and in my opinion will always hold value. Specifically gold and silver for me, but right now real estate is doing the heavy lifting for me. Ill keep an eye on the market, and likely jump back into silver once it dips below $20
I've followed a similar pattern and have done well by it.

Sounds like your timing was very good. I also bought plenty at 14 and more in the '20s. But I think that the price of silver has been suppressed for way too long. The ratio is nowhere near where it should be and the classic holding pattern is in place.
Would be great if it did drop below 20 again but I'm not sure it will with the inflation and price surges that have been happening in everything else.
Home prices have done great and your advice is very good. BUT I'm not sure that holding much more than your personal home is such a good idea right now. Way too many landlords are stuck right now will property (esp commercial) they can't rent. Or residential with non-paying non-evictable people living off you. I do still have 1 rental property left but we have been kicking around selling it as well. Cashing out while the market is crazy high before it all crashes.
Hard to disagree with any of this. I'm dating myself, but I still have silver that I bought at 3.75 the oz. But I sold a whole bunch when the Bunker Boys ran the price way up, then bought it back after it crashed. That kind of trading isn't my style but on that occasion it was too hard to resist. In recent times, I bought silver at around $13 -14. My dad was a silver guy, started socking it away at face value when the US gov't announced they were taking it out of coinage. LBJ told us that hoarding silver coins wasn't going to do us any good, the gov't had all the silver they needed to force a price of $1.25 (or somewhere around there) as long as necessary. Well, not a year and a half later, the Treasury was clawing it back from the banking system and melting coins down, turns out they didn't have all that silver after all. I don't know of the Johnson Administration was lying or they just didn't know any better. Or got overtaken by events. It doesn't matter, it just goes to show that all things being equal, government monies tend to deteriorate over time.

Before he died, my dad told me, "I probably won't need any of this (in reference to his silver), but you may after I'm gone." I'm now thinking the same thing. I hold my PM as an intergenerational treasure box for whomever in my family may need it, some day. If not, it's still there as a form of wealth. I give money away to family members, pay tuition for grand children, etc., but that I burn off in paper; I'd never cash in PM for that purpose. And anticipating further erosion of purchasing power, recently I've done just about every improvement to my own place that I can think of to get fair value out of paper while I can.

Real estate these days. Get a chunk for yourself, hold back on any more purchases. The prices have just run up too high, too fast for me. The burning point may be arriving soon. Take money off the table. Just my opinion.

The rental real estate situation, absolutely horrible. Landlords have zero rights, de facto property confiscation is the order of the day in some jurisdictions. The situation in Seattle is deplorable, trespassers are declared to be renters. The definition of "rent" is money that is tendered for value, i.e., housing. If no money is tendered, it isn't called rent. It's called trespassing. I've been a landlord in the past, never again under these circumstances or even close.
 

GWS

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Yeah, we got out of the rental business in2018 and haven't looked back. Just not worth the headaches then and holy cow, I'd hate to be a landlord now.
Do you suppose there was a moratorium on property taxes while the eviction moratorium was in effect? Hell no!
And people wonder why I loathe progressives...:rolleyes:
My folks were stackers and I inherited my share of their PMs as did my sisters. And, I had my own as well, buying a bunch before Y2K. Nowadays I mostly buy novelty rounds like the Zombucks or Marvel superhero rounds I'd seen at a shop. They were amusing but nonetheless, they are still, 1 oz of .999 pure silver.
 
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Yeah, we got out of the rental business in2018 and haven't looked back. Just not worth the headaches then and holy cow, I'd hate to be a landlord now.
Do you suppose there was a moratorium on property taxes while the eviction moratorium was in effect? Hell no!
And people wonder why I loathe progressives...:rolleyes:
My folks were stackers and I inherited my share of their PMs as did my sisters. And, I had my own as well, buying a bunch before Y2K. Nowadays I mostly buy novelty rounds like the Zombucks or Marvel superhero rounds I'd seen at a shop. They were amusing but nonetheless, they are still, 1 oz of .999 pure silver.
This is probably the best reason to buy pm's that I have heard in this entire thread! Zombucks or Superheros!
 

GWS

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This is probably the best reason to buy pm's that I have heard in this entire thread! Zombucks or Superheros!
I gave Zombucks to friends and told them that is was how they will gain admission to my Zombie apocalypse survival compound that I will build near Elko Nevada (Once I win a really big lottery, that is;))

I got the biggest kick out of one of my friend's telling me how his sons, age 10 & 12, told him to be very careful with that coin and put in in a safe place. Just in case...
 

Burt Gummer

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The banksters, primarily the Morgans, manipulate the silver price via funny money certs. Always been that way.
Actual silver is close to 70:1 vs what would be useless paper certs, right up there with US fiat dollars.
Was also fortunate to pick some Buffalos up at $16.60 not that long ago. I never see it as an investment. Just a hedge against financial hard times, specifically high or hyper-inflation. Definitely prefer it over Gold. If $5 or $50, if the Morgans ever lose control of it - if the naive types ever demand their silver (in physical form) the price will be 50x times current levels.
That may never happen but 10% there would be fine.
 
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