Messages
7,220
Reactions
12,111
... I can't speak for how FFLs are choosing to do things now, but when it comes to FTF private transfers, I see no reason why the seller can't hold the firearm, and the buyer hold the cash, until such time as the paperwork is approved.
This makes the most sense to me. The only thing at risk is the background check fee and possibly a ffl transfer fee (to compensate ffl for their wasted time). No risk to either party -or the ffl- of getting trapped in m114 twilight zone status.
 
Messages
166
Reactions
265
One thing to remind sellers that if the gun don't transfer right away. And the FFL holds the gun and the transfer don't go thru. Or denied. The FFL will then call both parties that transaction failed, The seller will probably refund buyers money back. You the seller have to complete a background check to get your gun back.
 
Messages
47
Reactions
57
I have a pistol for sale, and I’m thinking through when to ask for payment, considering the gun shop is gonna hold onto it until the background check passes, which could be weeks.

My only thought is to get payment when the gunshop takes possession, and if the buyer doesn’t pass the background check, I give him his money back.

I don’t know how comfortable I’d be as the buyer, but I can’t think of another way to do it.

Thoughts?
That's how it's done. The buyer pays you for the firearm and the FFL holds the Item until the background check is complete. If the background check comes back with a denial then you would have to go through a background check plus anything 114 makes you do in order to take your firearm back if your in Oregon. You can just keep the money and let the FFL keep the firearm until the buyer can pass the background check.
 
Messages
13,512
Reactions
22,707
FYI. Hawaii has already enacted and used......this same sort of kind of same law (OR 114) for quite a while already.

Yeah.....generally.....
Get a "Permit to Acquire" at the Police Station. The permit will be good for X days (depending on if it's a long gun or handgun). Of course, fingerprinting, a BGC and Mental Health checks are required. Assuming that you've been approved......you would then go to the gun shop (or FFL Dealer) and get checked again (via Form 4473, etc.....) before taking actual possession. Then, go back to the police to actually REGISTER the firearm with them.

OMG!!! That is [email protected]#*ing B.S.

BUT, But, but........that's what happens when the Dems rule the state (and has for a looooooog time).

Aloha, Mark

PS.......YES, fees (aka: extra taxes) are also collected.

Q: Is it still a RIGHT? If/when fees/taxes are collected for the exercise there of?
 
Last Edited:
Messages
744
Reactions
1,062
Does anybody actually know what they are talking about or this is all speculation? If I am the buyer I show up inspect the firearm if it looks good I will pay the person right there and then once the FFL takes both of our I.D. I normally wait for the background check to clear, but with 114 it is a complete bubblegum show. I sold something the day after 114 passed. Person got put in the que it was like 4k at the time said it would be a 2 week wait. At this point if they get denied it is between them and the FFL. I am not going through another BC for a gun that I frankly do not want. Plus at this point you have used anytime left I have to look for another buyer. Plus if you are giving somebody extras like ammo are they still going to give you everything back exactly as you gave it to them? To many variables I’m not unreasonable but at the same time I’m not willing to take a big loss at this moment. Shops and FFL’s should be explaining thing better to potential buyers it is crazy how many people are buying guns that they may never own. Everybody shops is basically trying to clear out their inventory but yet no info on people that get stuck in the loop after Dec7. I don’t know if these shops and FFL do not care or are just banking on 114 being unconstitutional. Regardless somebody needs to understand and be able to explain this new law to buyers. I am tired of hearing “ well they aren’t breaking the law” same with the mag ban “ it’s legal to sell so why wouldn’t the sell them” yeah for now but in the back of your head you know what you
Just sold someone is going to make them a criminal in less than a month so wtf?
 
Messages
19,689
Reactions
30,007
I have a pistol for sale, and I’m thinking through when to ask for payment, considering the gun shop is gonna hold onto it until the background check passes, which could be weeks.

My only thought is to get payment when the gunshop takes possession, and if the buyer doesn’t pass the background check, I give him his money back.

I don’t know how comfortable I’d be as the buyer, but I can’t think of another way to do it.

Thoughts?
You should absolutely get payment on the day the gun shop takes possession.
 
Messages
19,689
Reactions
30,007
The more unsettling scenario is:

  1. Seller sells a firearm to buyer.
  2. Buyer pays seller at FFL.
  3. FFL submits BGC, and holds firearm.
  4. BGC is NOT completed by the date BM114 takes effect.
  5. BGC comes back approved, a day, week, or more, AFTER BM 114 takes effect.
  6. FFL cannot transfer firearm to buyer because buyer must have a permit.
  7. Buyer cannot get a permit because there is no system in place to allow buyer to get a permit.
  8. FFL can't sell firearms or do transfers, so FFL goes out of business.
  9. What happens to the buyer's firearm???
OR

Steps 1 - 7 are the same, then

8. FFL continues in business, but decides they don't want to keep holding private party transfer firearms
9. Seller's firearm has NOT been transferred to buyer, so FFL returns firearm to seller.
10. Buyer contacts seller asking for his money back.
11. Seller says he doesn't have the money (had to fix his truck, car, water heater, etc.), and won't be able to pay buyer back.
12. Buyer s**t's his pants, or something like that.

It is truly a sh*tshow!
"9. Seller's firearm has NOT been transferred to buyer, so FFL returns firearm to seller."


This can't happen unless seller completes a background check.
 
Messages
419
Reactions
1,023
"9. Seller's firearm has NOT been transferred to buyer, so FFL returns firearm to seller."


This can't happen unless seller completes a background check.
True. And if this goes past Dec 8 then it's the seller that has to go through a training class, get a permit, have a BGC run and he ends up in the 20.000 count queue. To wait for clearance and get his gun back.
 
Messages
19,689
Reactions
30,007
True. And if this goes past Dec 8 then it's the seller that has to go through a training class, get a permit, have a BGC run and he ends up in the 20.000 count queue. To wait for clearance and get his gun back.
Seller would be smart to get money up front and let the buyer and FFL work it out. Do the transfer at J&B Firearms soon and take advantage of three day rule.
 
Messages
17,563
Reactions
41,698
Does anybody actually know what they are talking about or this is all speculation? If I am the buyer I show up inspect the firearm if it looks good I will pay the person right there and then once the FFL takes both of our I.D. I normally wait for the background check to clear, but with 114 it is a complete bubblegum show. I sold something the day after 114 passed. Person got put in the que it was like 4k at the time said it would be a 2 week wait. At this point if they get denied it is between them and the FFL. I am not going through another BC for a gun that I frankly do not want. Plus at this point you have used anytime left I have to look for another buyer. Plus if you are giving somebody extras like ammo are they still going to give you everything back exactly as you gave it to them? To many variables I’m not unreasonable but at the same time I’m not willing to take a big loss at this moment. Shops and FFL’s should be explaining thing better to potential buyers it is crazy how many people are buying guns that they may never own. Everybody shops is basically trying to clear out their inventory but yet no info on people that get stuck in the loop after Dec7. I don’t know if these shops and FFL do not care or are just banking on 114 being unconstitutional. Regardless somebody needs to understand and be able to explain this new law to buyers. I am tired of hearing “ well they aren’t breaking the law” same with the mag ban “ it’s legal to sell so why wouldn’t the sell them” yeah for now but in the back of your head you know what you
Just sold someone is going to make them a criminal in less than a month so wtf?
This is why people who want to make sales from one to another need to iron it all out ahead of time. The ONLY people who will have a "problem" here is people who jump head first into something without making things clear up front. Last couple sales I did here both got "Delayed" for buyers. FFL's sent us both home, guns went with me. When buyer got Proceed we both met up again and I got paid and left. So again people don't jump in head first without making things clear.
Is FFL going to hold the gun? If so for me? I would tell buyer you are going to pay me, I am going home, this is no longer my problem. You get denied, delayed, or whatever, not my problem. The FFL now owns that gun. You will have to make arrangements with him to sell it and give you whatever money he feels back to you. The seller is out of the picture after the FFL takes the gun and enters it into his book.
Now if seller wants to make this far more complicated by making promises? That is up to the seller.
If the FFL does not want to take the gun in then again seller keeps the gun until its time to transfer it. No way in hell would I leave my gun anywhere until after I got paid. After I get paid I am no longer part of this.
A great example is as soon as people started ordering guns on line. The buyer pays for gun. Gun is shipped to their choice of FFL's. If buyer fails to be able to pick up said gun? Gun now belongs to FFL. FFL has no obligation to pay to send it back. Seller has no obligation to take it back and refund money. Some do and they of course charge for all this handling and shipping.
 
I have a pistol for sale, and I’m thinking through when to ask for payment, considering the gun shop is gonna hold onto it until the background check passes, which could be weeks.

My only thought is to get payment when the gunshop takes possession, and if the buyer doesn’t pass the background check, I give him his money back.

I don’t know how comfortable I’d be as the buyer, but I can’t think of another way to do it.

Thoughts?
SELLING guns? Why should I want to do THAT? :D
To (mis)quote Omar Khayyam "What does the gun-dealer buy half so precious as the things he sells?"
 
Last Edited:
Messages
839
Reactions
1,585
This happens a lot here in CA. As the seller I deliver the gun to the FFL. Buyer inspects it, and if He wants to buy, ponies up the cash. He has now bought a gun. The FFL does a BCG, and has to hold the gun for 10 business days.
If the BCG is denied, the buyer and FFL have to come to terms on what to do with the gun that can't be delivered. Most times they come to a deal where the FFL resells on a consignment deal.
Where things get sticky is if I bought from a internet distributor, and can not pass a BCG. As the buyer I stop payment on my credit card, and the FFL and distributor are stuck fighting out who owns the gun, who is paying to ship it back or sell it locally, etc...
Less and less FFL's are taking Internet sales because of this. DR
 
Messages
17,563
Reactions
41,698
This happens a lot here in CA. As the seller I deliver the gun to the FFL. Buyer inspects it, and if He wants to buy, ponies up the cash. He has now bought a gun. The FFL does a BCG, and has to hold the gun for 10 business days.
If the BCG is denied, the buyer and FFL have to come to terms on what to do with the gun that can't be delivered. Most times they come to a deal where the FFL resells on a consignment deal.
Where things get sticky is if I bought from a internet distributor, and can not pass a BCG. As the buyer I stop payment on my credit card, and the FFL and distributor are stuck fighting out who owns the gun, who is paying to ship it back or sell it locally, etc...
Less and less FFL's are taking Internet sales because of this. DR
Now that would be an interesting one to see play out. It would mean the FFL who sold the gun would be the one "on the hook". The firearm would already be on the book of the receiving FFL. So the seller would have to deal with trying to appeal the charge back with the bank or get the FFL who now owns that gun to make some kind of deal on cost to ship it back. I have long heard that the protections against fraud we in the US get with plastic is almost too good. That some times people will abuse it. I have on rare occasions had to go the charge back route with someone who just refused to cooperate and never had a problem. Did it to Amazon once years ago. They said the seller was not them and they could do nothing. I had the bank take the money back and all of a sudden Amazon was sorry and took care of it. Now this? Seems like the seller of the gun would maybe have some recourse through the appeal process. Never having had to do it though have no idea what is involved here. I have bought many guns online paid with plastic so I have to guess the sellers must be able to win these. If not I would not think any of them would still take plastic.
 
Messages
34,828
Reactions
88,825
Did it to Amazon once years ago. They said the seller was not them and they could do nothing. I had the bank take the money back and all of a sudden Amazon was sorry and took care of it.
Amazon is pretty good about returns/etc. - at least in my experience, but they do have third party sellers and those are the ones where the returns can be an issue. For many items I am careful to buy with Amazon fulfillment and eligible for "Prime" handling where there are multiple sellers on an Amazon item - that way I have less hassle. Lately I have been returning a few items and have been glad for that ability - previously I almost never did return any items.

My CC co. also has some "insurance" in that respect - so I usually buy with that CC too.
 
Messages
1,673
Reactions
2,931
Amazon is pretty good about returns/etc. - at least in my experience, but they do have third party sellers and those are the ones where the returns can be an issue. For many items I am careful to buy with Amazon fulfillment and eligible for "Prime" handling where there are multiple sellers on an Amazon item - that way I have less hassle. Lately I have been returning a few items and have been glad for that ability - previously I almost never did return any items.

My CC co. also has some "insurance" in that respect - so I usually buy with that CC too.
The bulk of Amazon-affiliated contributions to congressional and federal candidates went to Democrats — around 68% of the total amount of donated dollars.

Thanks for playing.
 

Latest Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Back Top