Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

When have we had enough?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Karma, Oct 12, 2009.

  1. Karma

    Karma the woods in Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    72
    Over the last few days, I read the Glenn Beck book "Common Sense", which was inspired by Thomas Pane. There are some very good points made in the book. It is done in a way that isn't against any one political party. He pretty evenly blasts both sides. It really makes a person think about where we started as a country, and where we are now.

    In any case, this got me wondering. When will we the people have enough, and what will be done when that is the case? Where do you all think we are headed? Will Americans follow the example of other nations that have stripped the rights of their citizens, making them subjects? Will Americans once again stand up against a powerful government and follow the path our founding fathers layed out for us? I am just curious what others think about this?

    For example, if there is a bill passed tomorrow that all firearms are banned across the US, would Americans stand up? Would we go down in flames like England and turn in all our weapons? Are we still the same United States that we once were with the grit to take our government back if we need to?
     
  2. JumpWing

    JumpWing NK WA Member

    Messages:
    599
    Likes Received:
    25
    Politics: Robbing the people of as much as you can, as fast as you can, without tripping the "organized defense" mechanism.

    They get better and better at it every year, Red and Blue alike.

    As for a total ban, I think this would be a serious problem for the gov. Sure, there would be a few people lining up to hand over their liberty, but nowhere (I mean NOwhere) near the number of estimate gun owners in America. It would quickly become VERY obvious that millions of people were holding on to their guns.

    First, the deadline will "graciously" be extended. Then there will be reporting of falsely high numbers of turn-ins in an attempt to make each holdout feel isolated, as if he is one of a tiny minority. This will bring in a few more guns, but there will still be millions who aren't buying into the propaganda.

    Then, after the deadline ends, we're going to have a problem. Sooner or later, a criminal will be shot down by a law-abiding citizen defending his life and that citizen will be going to court. Many of us will watch and simply let it happen. Others will rationalize to themselves that the citizen was stupid for somehow "doing it wrong" when defending himself. More will see this as a travesty but will talk themselves into postponing any action.

    This will be the downhill slide as gun owners are either picked off by twos and threes, or frightened into NOT organizing.

    The problem that we libertarians have is an ironic one: We arm ourselves because we believe firmly in the sanctity of life. But it's this firm belief that stays our hand from taking the lives of our oppressor's.
     
  3. Randini

    Randini Salem Member

    Messages:
    273
    Likes Received:
    1
    Sad but true, most who have firearms and love their rights will stash them and hope for the best.
    tn_WetheSheeple.gif
     
  4. dario541

    dario541 medford, or 97504 Member

    Messages:
    696
    Likes Received:
    24
    If I'm wrong, I hope somebody knows what happened. A few years ago Kalifornia passed a law banning "Assault Weapons". WE know this happened. But, I have heard that only 3 percent of people with such firearms turned them in. True or false?? Anyone know for sure?
     
  5. Karma

    Karma the woods in Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    72
    That is exactly the scenario that I am worried about. You are right that they probably will pick off gun owners a couple at a time, if we let them. So, does anyone have any suggestions how to restore a "healthy fear of the citizens" that the government is supposed to have? How can we make the government listen to us, the average citizen? Special interests have our politicians in their pockets these days. That is who they listen to. Lobbyists bribe politicians to vote for them. A normal person can't seriously run for a political office without the backing of these groups. How can we get things back? Any suggestions?
     
  6. zeezee

    zeezee nowheresville Member

    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    14
    "When our USD is rendered worthless, "obama the magic negro" will come to our rescue. He will issue us "energy stamps", and we will all be rationed stamps for electric, gas, water, and of course gasoline for our gas guzzling cars. In exchange, of course more freedoms will be taken away. Any of us owning firearms will be required to relinquish them to the FED or receive no "energy stamps"." From a different site, same thoughts
     
  7. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,665
    Likes Received:
    360
    As long as people have something to lose they won't risk prison or death to fight for their freedoms. Only in countries where the standard of living is very low is where you see civil wars started. People figure they have little to lose so they are willing to fight for something they perceive as better than the current conditions. Really ask yourself if you are willing to lose your house, car, job, freedom, or life just to keep a material object? Are you going to be the first martyr for freedom or a political prisoner like Mandela or Solzhenitsyn or are you going to wait until the revolution starts and then join in once victory is assured like the Berlin wall climbers? Come on, who will do this?

    For the record, I'm done fighting for someone else's rights. If you are young, in shape, and your body isn't racked with pain. Its your turn...

    Well thats about a 10 on the rant scale...:)
     
  8. Karma

    Karma the woods in Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    72
    I wasn't really even talking about a civil war. I am more talking politically. We still have elections at this time. We may not for a long. My best guess would be that amnesty will be forced through soon, which will increase the voting base by 30 million people or so overnight. Still, there are ways to do things short of picking up guns. For example, what would happen if a million or so people didn't pay there taxes? Do you think they are going to jail everyone? LOL. It would send one heck of a message. I will tell you that.

    You are probably right though about Americans now. Nobody probably will stand up and do a damn thing. I guess we don't deserve the republic our forefathers gave us anymore if that is the case. So is it not worth fighting for other people, when those people are our children?
     
  9. dario541

    dario541 medford, or 97504 Member

    Messages:
    696
    Likes Received:
    24
    I wrote before about how the Communists took control of food when they were consolidating their iron-fisted grip on China. They then traded food for guns!This was a very successful tactic. Would Obama Bin Laden and his henchmen try it here? I don't know. But, I do know that he will have the full support of the New World Odor if he chooses to do this. A side note: When the Communists took control of China, it was the bloodiest slaughter of humanity in world history, according to the Guiness Book of Records - somewhere between 50 million and 70 million fatalities. So much for the United Nations being formed to prevent another Holocaust!
     
  10. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    14
    Gotta love a good old-fashioned racist post. Really moves the whole gun rights agenda forward. Thanks.
     
  11. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,792
    Likes Received:
    597
    Gotta love a good old-fashioned racist post. Really moves the whole gun rights agenda forward. Thanks.

    CEF I don't agree with you on a lot of things, but you're spot on with this one. Particularly since some of the first gun control laws passed were aimed at depriving arms from the freed slaves after the Civil War.
     
  12. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,287
    Likes Received:
    1,700
    I agree with you CEF, sorta, you do know all you gotta do is disagree with Obama, and your branded a "racist" just ask the liberal press or former prez Carter.....;)
     
  13. zeezee

    zeezee nowheresville Member

    Messages:
    735
    Likes Received:
    14
    If you were to take the time and listen to the song, you will understand that it was the Los Angeles Times that dubbed him Barrack the Magic Negro. I don't know how you can say that is racist, the LA Times is about as liberal a newspaper as this country has. And I don't think the word negro is racist, now if they used the other 'N' word, yes that would be racist because that is derogatory. But if your offended by the word negro, maybe we should use mulatto, half black/half white but that word seems to have gone out of use and yet that is exactly what he is.
    And as far as moving the guns right agenda forward, maybe you should read a little history about our southern democrat congressmen who passed laws to keep guns out of the hands of Americans of African descent.
    Educate yourself a little before you go calling someone a racist.
     
  14. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    14
    zeezee, I called the post a racist post, not you a racist person. But if you think calling a black President of the United States "Barack the Magic Negro" in a post critical of him isn't racist, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
     
  15. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    14
    I think people are capable of distinguishing between unfounded claims of racism and real racism. Just because someone unfairly calls another person a racist doesn't make it ok for other people to make genuinely racist comments. And racist comments in a pro-gun forum hurt the cause of gun rights.
     
  16. treemanx

    treemanx Spray, Or. Active Member

    Messages:
    1,325
    Likes Received:
    14
    Man! I am so sick and tired of touchy feely people getting offended and throwing the racism card around any time any one makes the slightest comment about Obama! Its BS! Is the man not a negro? Where is the foul in saying something is what it is? GET THE **** OVER IT ALREADY! The people who constantly bring this kind of stuff to attention are just looking for a pat on the back and someone to say, "good puppy for sniffing out a comment that could possibly be mistaken for racist!"

    Now lets pull this thread back onto the tracks and leave the racial card at home!
     
  17. sillyrabbit

    sillyrabbit Salem, Oregon Member

    Messages:
    750
    Likes Received:
    4
    There is a way to RECLAIM our freedoms AND get the BUMS out!

    Will YOU (meaning ALL of us) do what it takes? I DOUBT it!

    So how do we do this you ask? Good question, want the real answer?

    GET INVOLVED AND STAY INVOLVED! Not for just a little bit, not for just a day, a week, a month or a single cause............. but CONTINUALLY!

    But will YOU do it? Probably not!.... Why do I say that you ask? Another good question.......

    Answer? Things like;
    "Takes too much time"
    "Don't know what to do"
    "Don't want to offend my neighbors or my friends or my family...."
    "It's raining outside.... or it's cold... or it's dark"
    "I'm not a republican"
    "I'm not a democrat"
    "It won't do any good anyway...."
    "My single voice (vote) doesn't do any good anyway..."
    And I love this one; "It's no big deal, it's just one more thing, why bother......."
    THow about these:
    "That's Kalifornia for you, but not in my state...""
    "That's Washing DC, but not here..."
    "Politicians are all corrupt so why bother....."

    See what I mean???

    Want to change things, regain things, hold freedoms, regain freedoms?

    How involved are you?
    Did you vote? did you campaign for anybody? have you written your representatives or called them EVERY DAMN WEEK! again and again and again and again.....?

    Want to know why the idiots keeping gaining ground on our reights..... IT'S VERV VERY SIMPLE................

    THEY'RE INVOLVED AND WE'RE NOT! They have been for years and we haven't! they will be tomorrow and WE (most of us) won't!

    And when WHEN the SHTF and the guns finally come out........... will they stand and fight? **** NO! but by then they will own the government, have changed our freedoms, the laws and will send "their" troops and police against us the renegades, revolutionaries, the "gun people" AND we'll wonder what happened that we have to revert to violence? AND they will say "we've been waiting for this, and we won't let a good crisis go to waste" to finish our take over...............

    Think I'm off my rocker, over the edge?.......... You may be right, but then so was all of our original founders and all the men and women who have died for this country in our 200 plus years of freedom.

    Do you really think that "Obamacare" is really about health care????? It's about control and entitlement and sharing the wealth AND CONTROL ! ! ! !

    So.......... get involved? or not??

    My two cents
     
  18. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,287
    Likes Received:
    1,700
    Haven't heard from you in awhile CEF, glad to see your still around. "Unfounded claims of racism and real racism." I guess you just don't know what to believe when a liberal speaks. You gotta remember I'm just a "typical white person" "bitterly clinging to my guns and religion" according to our prez.........:winkkiss:
     
  19. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    14
    My point is about gun rights.

    You may not give a rat's patooey about racist comments yourself and may even be inclined toward them. I don't care. But think tactically: Do you really think calling a black president, "Barack the Magic Negro" in a post that is critical of him, on a gun rights site, helps advance our gun rights? If so, I respectfully suggest you are wrong. It hurts us; it doesn't help. You know what would help? More people saying: I'm strong for gun rights, but I don't condone racism.

    Maybe you don't care about what helps or hurts tactically in this critically important fight for gun rights and are just another one of those angry white men who vents without thinking about the consequences. But I'm not, and neither are people like Wayne LaPierre of the NRA. Just ask him.

    I don't expect genuine racists to pretend to be something else. But gun rights advocates who are NOT racists should speak out against racist comments on gun rights sites. It's the smart thing to do, because it helps advance gun rights. Condoning racist comments, by trashing posts critical of racism or even by silence, hurts the fight for gun rights.
     
  20. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

    Messages:
    986
    Likes Received:
    14
    I'm not here to support Obama or liberals; I'm here to support gun rights. And in that regard, I don't think it helps to do these wink-wink-nod-nod-chuckle-chuckle references to race on this site. If people want to do that stuff over a few beers, or in a duck blind, go for it. But here it hurts our agenda, if we understand our agenda to be gun rights.