When Did Modern Factory .357mag Ammo Get Weaker?

[teflon6string]

Stopped in a local gun shop I hadn't visited before today. They didn't have a used Hi Power and they weren''t busy, so we just shot the shjt about guns in general.

I forget how we ended up there, but the fellow behind the counter mentioned that "today's .357 magnum ammo is nowhere near as powerful as it was originally." This got my interest because I'd sort of noticed that subconsciously already without doing any research at all.

My theory was that I was a lean, mean 160 lb beanpole when I shot a S&W 686 in 1982. I'd been shooting for years already, but that was my first big pistol so it was a real attention-getter with magnum rounds. Lots of recoil and noticeably loud even with earplugs.

Fast forward 35+ years, and magnum rounds seem nowhere near as awe-inspiring as they once were. I guess I had rationalized all of it thusly:
- Hearing loss and tinnitus sort of dull everything.
- I use earplugs and deadphones now.
- I've shot bigger pistols over the decades - some that I never care to try again.
- I've added 40-50 pounds of studly/marbled mass.
- I know how to shoot now.

But the more I think about what the gun shop owner told me, the more I'm thinking maybe it's the ammo.

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[gunnails]

I agree, all the cheap bulk ammo I have is slightly louder and more recoil then target loads of .38.

I have been told there is still full load .357 magnum ammo around, Buffalo Boar? Problem all the full load stuff is over a $1 a round.

 

[Argonaut]

I think it is the case in many loadings. I remember watching old Germans shooting high powers at the range throwing fire 3 feet out of the muzzle standing next to them with my 1911 thinking....why would I want one of those........the stuff today is very mild. I am sure it is a combination of the lawyer effect and keeping component costs down for manufactures.

 

[jbett98]

Not in a S&W 360PD they won't.

 

[Medic!]

I saw this video the other day and thought 357 magnum was holding it's own these days.
125gr Remington Green and white box, cheep stuff. Doing 1450 from a 4'' barrel ain't bad?

 

[Colts4me]

A lot of things changed over the years. K frame Smiths and Ruger security sixes and some of the lighter 357s took a real pounding from 125 grain ammo. Everyone was in search of the best bullet and for some time the 125 grain was the best. However at the same time departments were forced to train with magnum ammo for one reason or another and the K frames split forcing cones because they couldnt take the pounding of training with full power loads.

So the gun companies came out with the L frame and the GP 100 but the guns were too heavy and old fashion while the world was going to semi autos. Six shots with tremendous muzzle blast had seen it's day. 357s were relegated to hunting and most hunters went back to the heavier bullets, 158s or better. Longer barrels and less blast along with greater accuracy in general.

I like my 357, great shooter but I remember the old days.

 

[BWH]

I go with the school of modern gun trends are marketing smaller and lighter built weapons, thus old school heavy loads will greatly shorten the life of these said weapons. Anything for the most part need to be "safe" in these guns. sort of like the reloading manuals list loads stated as safe only in "ruger xxx model or contender" ect.

Liability.

 

[Kruel J]

Probably the same time 10mm got watered down by the masses.

 

[kmk1012]

I shot my 4" 357 mag the other day just after touching off 6 rounds of full house 460 S&W from my friends revolver. The 357 sure seemed like a pussy cat after that! I'd never seen a louder harder kicking mule that that 6" stainless revolver! I do agree about magnum rounds not being so magnum any more. I have a couple old reloading books that list mid range current magnum loadings as only starting velocities!

 

[ob1]

Well if the current loads are indeed lighter, I guess I won't be worrying as much about forcing cones and torching on K frames. I don't even remember that being discussed thirty years ago.

 

[warnerwh]

Well when factory 125gr bullets are chronographed at 1,450 fps they can't be much lighter. That is very fast and certainly must have enough pressure to do some gas cutting. I know that velocity can also be reached with reloads using recommended powder levels. If you need more power buy a .44 magnum.

 

[Medic!]

Well when factory 125gr bullets are chronographed at 1,450 fps they can't be much lighter. That is very fast and certainly must have enough pressure to do some gas cutting. I know that velocity can also be reached with reloads using recommended powder levels. If you need more power buy a .44 magnum.

Or A Glock 32 in .357 and get over 1,500 FPS with underwood 125gr ammo.

 

[Member 5605]

I dunno...

I can find 125gr rounds that will push 1800fps+ from my rifle.

Old timers love to chew the fat on "what used to be" but in reality, you can only push something so fast and spin it so many times before it's unstable. That my friend is physics, it's not so much anemic rounds.

(lawyers write everything now days)

 

[Medic!]

If so. Modern bullet construction may have something to do with it?
They can get reliable expansion at lower velocities these days. And bonded bullets stay together better. And perform more consistently.

This and ballistic gel testing, has created a new science and standards for handgun ammo not seen in the 70's and 80's. And the new belief is ''You don't need all that velocity''.

Listen to people say how effective the new 9mm ammo is these days.
I cant help but wonder if this new standard hasn't pulled velocity out of the equation for other traditionally hotter rounds?

In other words were grading on a curve.
And 9mm has become the standard.

 

[Certaindeaf]

When the FBI stopped using the M-13 the old girl was just not what she used to be.. (lol, who knows)



I do know that when their HRT stopped using the Hi-Power they lost all credibility.


lol

 

[teflon6string]

I dunno...

I can find 125gr rounds that will push 1800fps+ from my rifle.

Old timers love to chew the fat on "what used to be" but in reality, you can only push something so fast and spin it so many times before it's unstable. That my friend is physics, it's not so much anemic rounds.

(lawyers write everything now days)

That's a very good point. Maybe modern projectiles are performing just as well (or even better) downrange.

It just seems like that trademark poop-yer-pants magnum noise and recoil I recall from the 80s is a thing of the past.

 

[Certaindeaf]

That's a very good point. Maybe modern projectiles are performing just as well (or even better) downrange.

It just seems like that trademark poop-yer-pants magnum noise and recoil I recall from the 80s is a thing of the past.

I remember for a couple a generations or so they used 8 3/8" unvented test barrels to state their numbers. what the heck, come on

 

[teflon6string]

I remember for a couple a generations or so they used 8 3/8" unvented test barrels to state their numbers. what the heck, come on

Same pistol here. One of the earliest 686s with 6" barrel. A real sweetheart.

 

[Colts4me]

I just wonder if they didnt' download ammo when they came out with the lightweight 357 snubs ? The old K frames could take the pounding of a steady diet of full house magnums as they were meant to train with 38s and carry 357s. I suspect the gun makers know it hurts too much to shoot magnums in the new lightweights. Anyway, just guessing.

 

[Medic!]

I just wonder if they didnt' download ammo when they came out with the lightweight 357 snubs ? The old K frames could take the pounding of a steady diet of full house magnums as they were meant to train with 38s and carry 357s. I suspect the gun makers know it hurts too much to shoot magnums in the new lightweights. Anyway, just guessing.

Many K frames did not do to well with all that pounding.