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Respect your input and opinions. There are some variables that come into play that are difficult to quantify. In the 70's going into the 80's when law enforcement had a high fatality rate, officers were not trained nearly as well, were under armed and many to most did not have body armor. The other HUGE difference is with medical services. This is also why traffic fatalities went down over this time, increasing when Smartphone were invented. Even better trauma centers and EMS can't completely fix stupid.

We learned a lot from that time. The APC's, Humvees and MRAPs are liked by departments because of the price, often free. It provides them with a rescue tool and a way to get officers into locations safely (think North Hollywood shootout). I get they look scary to the public but note that virtually none of them have mounted offensive weapons (I'm sure there are exceptions).


Nice try, but not even close to true. Last I saw for every 100 applicants one makes it to the academy. A percentage from there are lost in the academy and during the first year of probation. I know a field training officer who currently is finding it nearly impossible to pass people off training. Law enforcement isn't about following orders, it's about thinking on your feet all day long, going from a benign report call looking for an armed suspect and having someone answer the door with a gun. You almost never have a supervisor with you to give any orders.

I have helped a couple people become an LEO in the last few years. The ones who made it had to work VERY damn hard to get the job. Anyone who makes the inane claim that it's easy is either a troll or a wanabe who tried and could not get past the first application process so of course they cry. Then pretend they never wanted the job and anyone can get it. I guess if they tell themselves that long enough some of them start to believe it. :confused:
 
Part 2 of your statement is a big reason for part 1 of your statement. It seems people think there should be no evolution in tactics and equipment. I swear that a lot of people would rather their police wear bobby outfits and carry a 38.

If things happen that can be prevented with different equipment and tactics, why wouldn't you implement these things?
This was why the "press" was all in on hate for the Taser when it got going. Too often LEO's were able to take some kook down without beating them senseless or having to shoot them. Well media could not have that.
 
Respect your input and opinions. There are some variables that come into play that are difficult to quantify. In the 70's going into the 80's when law enforcement had a high fatality rate, officers were not trained nearly as well, were under armed and many to most did not have body armor. The other HUGE difference is with medical services. This is also why traffic fatalities went down over this time, increasing when Smartphone were invented. Even better trauma centers and EMS can't completely fix stupid.

We learned a lot from that time. The APC's, Humvees and MRAPs are liked by departments because of the price, often free. It provides them with a rescue tool and a way to get officers into locations safely (think North Hollywood shootout). I get they look scary to the public but note that virtually none of them have mounted offensive weapons (I'm sure there are exceptions).


Nice try, but not even close to true. Last I saw for every 100 applicants one makes it to the academy. A percentage from there are lost in the academy and during the first year of probation. I know a field training officer who currently is finding it nearly impossible to pass people off training. Law enforcement isn't about following orders, it's about thinking on your feet all day long, going from a benign report call looking for an armed suspect and having someone answer the door with a gun. You almost never have a supervisor with you to give any orders.

So your saying their is no red flag law enforcement or warrents put out unjustly. That's following orders.
 
Part 2 of your statement is a big reason for part 1 of your statement. It seems people think there should be no evolution in tactics and equipment. I swear that a lot of people would rather their police wear bobby outfits and carry a 38.

If things happen that can be prevented with different equipment and tactics, why wouldn't you implement these things?


Having worked in Law Enforcement I am of the opinion that cops should look like cops not like soldiers. One of the things that I feel hurts departments in many part of the country is the mindset that has developed that police are not civil servants. It had already been adopted and in vogue when I worked in civilian law enforcement after the leaving the Army. Police and Agencies referring to the public as civilians and to officers as if they were branch of the armed forces.

Unless you are in the military you are most assuredly a civilian and if working in a police department a civilian working as civil servant. I would much rather cops dress like cops than be dressed up like they are getting ready to retake Ramadi or Hue.

The imagery does convey a lot to the average person on the street . Something to think about and FWIW I am as pro law enforcement as they come.
 
I too respect law enforcement. I'm more referring to people who thinks cops can do no wrong. Its important to be objective.

Its true. I had an LOD injury in 2019 that sucked. Surgery and rehab, no fun. After 6 months on L&I, I got sick of sitting around. If I couldn't do MY job, I was gonna find something I could do temporarily. So I took a job where I adjudicate probation violations (finally used my degree). The stuff that people try to pull is atrocious. And then there's the stuff the people on probation do!
 
Having worked in Law Enforcement I am of the opinion that cops should look like cops not like soldiers. One of the things that I feel hurts departments in many part of the country is the mindset that has developed that police are not civil servants. It had already been adopted and in vogue when I worked in civilian law enforcement after the leaving the Army. Police and Agencies referring to the public as civilians and to officers as if they were branch of the armed forces.

Unless you are in the military you are most assuredly a civilian and if working in a police department a civilian working as civil servant. I would much rather cops dress like cops than be dressed up like they are getting ready to retake Ramadi or Hue.

The imagery does convey a lot to the average person on the street . Something to think about and FWIW I am as pro law enforcement as they come.

I respect this opinion, but my reason for not having the same is the amount if crap that has to be carried and the number of wear and tear injuries that comes from it. Carrying on the chest saves the hips.

Another thing is that SCOTUS has ruled that police have no duty to "serve" or "protect". The purpose is to enforce the law. This takes away a lot of gray and makes it black and white. So, the uniform takes a second place to having the tools to win.
 
Some of it does. Especially after prohibition and....body armor.

But, if you want to be obtuse, the military needs to go back to 1903 Springfields, Sherman tanks, and P40s. Because no advancement in technology or tactics matters. Right?

Didn't say that. Officer deaths started to decline well before the huge change in technology/tactics. Not saying technology and tactics haven't played a roll its just statitistics do not support it.
 
Officers make mistakes, we know. But they are given the public's trust.

I don't want to have to shout thru the door state your badge number, but I will if it looks like officers thru the peep hole.

I have been standing in my kitchen on the phone to dispatch while the front and back door have the handles wrenched so that the knobs are moving on the socket while they are locked, and the deadbolts are still holding, and the response is faster when I respond that I am just waiting here with the phone and my sidearm while my coffee gets cold on the counter.

Thank you for the example of Reuters being an untrustable entity that wants to discredit not only law enforcement , but also the firearms owning community.
 
I respect this opinion, but my reason for not having the same is the amount if crap that has to be carried and the number of wear and tear injuries that comes from it. Carrying on the chest saves the hips.

Another thing is that SCOTUS has ruled that police have no duty to "serve" or "protect". The purpose is to enforce the law. This takes away a lot of gray and makes it black and white. So, the uniform takes a second place to having the tools to win.

While I can appreciate your thoughts, the events of late I think have telegraphed the importance of maintaining public trust and support. That can't be done with an us vs them mindset of we are here to enforce the law.

There is a lot to be said for building rapport much like officer Smith or Jones was able to do walking the beat in generations past. Community policing has really taken a back seat in a lot of areas over the last few decades .
 
While I can appreciate your thoughts, the events of late I think have telegraphed the importance of maintaining public trust and support. That can't be done with an us vs them mindset of we are here to enforce the law.

There is a lot to be said for building rapport much like officer Smith or Jones was able to do walking the beat in generations past. Community policing has really taken a back seat in a lot of areas over the last few decades .

As long as humans are involved, there will be an "us vs them". No matter what job. Look at how much contempt bartenders can have toward customers.
 
Didn't say that. Officer deaths started to decline well before the huge change in technology/tactics. Not saying technology and tactics haven't played a roll its just statitistics do not support it.

Unless something has changed in the last 40 or so years most officers aren't killed as a result of violent crime. FWIW it was not quite a 50/50 split last year 48 officers killed feloniously and 41 as the result of accidents.
 

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