National When cops and America’s cherished gun rights collide, cops win

[Alexx1401]

The caveat is the knock was at 1:30am...make of it what you will.

Someone knocks on my door at that hour I will have a gun handy. I will NOT yank the door open and have the gun going through the door before I do. I would not even open the damn door until I found out who was there. Camera, window, peep hole. For those who live where there is no window they can see out a simple easy "caution" would be one of those things you see on the door of all Hotel rooms. Bar that allows the door to only open a couple inches. Then you could of course have gun in hand that NO ONE could see. If you peek out and it's uniformed LEO's? You ask what they want? If they want the door opened, and you want to comply? You of course put the damn gun down before you take the bar off so the door can open. First time Wife had a "scare" and stopped complaining about my "spending on guns" was like this. I was at work, someone starts pounding on door. He is yelling something she could not make out. Want to guess what she did NOT do? Open the door. She did have gun in hand, called 911. When good guys got there they called in, said we are here, please do not have your gun in your hand when you open the door. She looked out the window, put the gun down, opened the door.
When I got home hours later the Wife was still a little shook up, still had a gun sitting there with her, and never again complained about the money I was spending on guns

 

[USMC1911]

Not sure of the details on that. I am aware of orders from above to ignore a lot of laws on the books, failure to stop rioting, etc. I am also aware of the difficulty of recruiting quality candidates, and of keeping good officers. I have GREAT officers in my town. Care to say more?

Exactly as you said. Agencies have a much harder time recruiting, properly training and retaining good officers. Not hard to see a reduction in service.


Not sure of this either. There is sure a lot of killings and injuries of officers in the news each day. Esp in 2020.

Look at the FBI stats. A clear pattern of reduction in police deaths year over year starting in the 60s all while expanding the size of police force.


Thanx to increased police activities, special groups, and getting offenders put in prison for long periods. This is ALL being reversed and crime and violence is on a sharp upswing. But Oregon has the answer... just make crime legal!!!




What would be your characterization of "militaristic"? Seems to me that LE has always been organized and run similar to military (BTW, Wildland Firefighter and USFS are too). But many people object to the use of certain weapons and vehicles... You???

I dont remember police having APC and other clearly military vehicles when I was younger. A clear example is looking at the use of no knock warrents issued in the last 20 years. They did not really exist or were used on a very limited basis 30 years ago. Now every agency has a swat team and a budget for it. Very hard to argue with the fundamental change in policing in the last 20-30 years.

 

[bbbass]

When I got home hours later the Wife was still a little shook up, still had a gun sitting there with her, and never again complained about the money I was spending on guns

Where can I find that prospective intruder(s)? I'd like to hire them!!

 

[Alexx1401]

Where can I find that prospective intruder(s)? I'd like to hire them!!

Might be a good side gig. Guys pay you to get their other half to let them have more guns
When I got married the first time we had no CC law where I was. Wife had a gun, did not want to carry. I started clipping every story in the city papers where some woman was attacked. I did not include the gal meets guy at bar and leaves with this stranger. Just the stories of women who in their day to day were a victim or someone tried to make them a victim. Often during the day. It did not take long till I had an impressive stack of these clippings. One day I set them on the table and she read them. Pistol went in her purse and she never left home without it after that

 

[bbbass]

I dont remember police having APC and other clearly military vehicles when I was younger. A clear example is looking at the use of no knock warrents issued in the last 20 years. They did not really exist or were used on a very limited basis 30 years ago. Now every agency has a swat team and a budget for it. Very hard to argue with the fundamental change in policing in the last 20-30 years.

Full disclosure, I helped build up the SWAT vehicle for the La Grande PD.

I'm glad SWAT teams exist to handle very dangerous situations and criminal activities. I very glad they are well equipped. I'm very glad they are well trained. I'm glad that even smaller depts can afford to have SWAT.

I'm glad that SWAT teams have armored vehicles at their disposal. I've seen where an otherwise vulnerable team member was able to remain in the tophatch to cover an exposed window rather than being forced to take a position that would not be near as effective at covering team members.

Does it look bad on TV? Not to me!!!

Lots of people want to go back to the way things were done in their youth... not all good. Nor do we typically get to choose. I'd like to go back to eating in restaurants, to visiting family, to 30day deer seasons, to $5 fishing license, to being able to downhill ski, to when popular music had a melody... you get the picture. I've already stood in my yard at least once and yelled at the neighbors summers guests to turn the phuckin boom boom car stereo down!!!! We're getting old brother!

Semper Fi.

 

[bbbass]

Might be a good side gig. Guys pay you to get their other half to let them have more guns
When I got married the first time we had no CC law where I was. Wife had a gun, did not want to carry. I started clipping every story in the city papers where some woman was attacked. I did not include the gal meets guy at bar and leaves with this stranger. Just the stories of women who in their day to day were a victim or someone tried to make them a victim. Often during the day. It did not take long till I had an impressive stack of these clippings. One day I set them on the table and she read them. Pistol went in her purse and she never left home without it after that

My wife was a Redneck farm girl from the word go... was my hunting and fishing buddy for many years. But she is sooooo Scotch, errrrr "frugal", it hurts.

 

[Savage Jav]

Did you watch the video I was talking about? If you just want all cops to be the devil, shrug, no reaching you. If that is not the case you should try watching the video I was talking about. The guy died of terminal stupidity.
LEO's come knocking on your door and you charge out pistol in hand? You are begging to get shot. Of course those who never would be able to get the job the LEO's do will often love to say they know far better.
Again no reaching those who think that way.

As I recall they had no warrant. If its ok to kill out of stupidity then how long before its "stupid" to support a certain party and thus making it ok to kill them. Its a very dangerous game when you try to justify it like that. I don't care if he's begging to get shot no more then a girl scantily clad is begging to get rapped. Idoesn't justify it he wasn't shooting at you and they went their for no reason.

And I'm a medic getting back from a deployment so don't play the BS of "you don't know my jobs like." Plenty of thinking people work hard professions that don't have this mindset of oppressing individuals, especially on American soil.

 

[Savage Jav]

Did you watch the video I was talking about? If you just want all cops to be the devil, shrug, no reaching you. If that is not the case you should try watching the video I was talking about. The guy died of terminal stupidity.
LEO's come knocking on your door and you charge out pistol in hand? You are begging to get shot. Of course those who never would be able to get the job the LEO's do will often love to say they know far better.
Again no reaching those who think that way.

And don't act like getting an LEO job is hard you need to have minimal fitness, pass range day, have a basic understanding of the law, and most importantly towe the line and follow orders. At least the military beats it into you that you can refuse to follow unlawful orders.

 

[Alexx1401]

And don't act like getting an LEO job is hard you need to have minimal fitness, pass range day, have a basic understanding of the law,
[/QUOTE

 

[Savage Jav]

Last I checked everywhere is taking applications.

 

[Savage Jav]

Sorry not all of us are boot lickers

 

[DB is Here]

Sorry not all of us are boot lickers

Pretty sure that those that respect LEO's aren't boot lickers. Unless I took what you stated out of context.

 

[Alexx1401]

Pretty sure that those that respect LEO's aren't boot lickers. Unless I took what you stated out of context.

There is probably few harder and the VERY few bad LEO's than I. I am super hard on ones that really are screw ups because they get the good ones hurt. The "I hate all Cops" crowd are all in basically two groups. People who wanted the job so bad they were wet over it and no force would hire them, or they are constant screw ups who are always in trouble with the law. So of course it's not their poor choices that get them in trouble, its the LEO's
One thing none of the group who want Cops gone never will get is what would happen without them. Many of them think themselves quite super, at least in their own minds. The reality is if there was no Cops they would soon be the slaves of some lord who had the power. It's often funny to listen to them talk how it would be and how they could take care of themselves but, also kind of sad that some of them really believe it.

 

[No_Regerts]

IMO the quality of the force/enforcement has gone down. Police are in no more danger then they were 40 years ago. Crime and specifically violent crime is significantly less then even 20 years ago. The militaristic nature of policing has definitely changed by a huge amount in that time frame.

Part 2 of your statement is a big reason for part 1 of your statement. It seems people think there should be no evolution in tactics and equipment. I swear that a lot of people would rather their police wear bobby outfits and carry a 38.

If things happen that can be prevented with different equipment and tactics, why wouldn't you implement these things?

 

[WillametteWill]

Police are in no more danger then they were 40 years ago. Crime and specifically violent crime is significantly less then even 20 years ago. The militaristic nature of policing has definitely changed by a huge amount in that time frame.

I dont remember police having APC and other clearly military vehicles when I was younger.

Respect your input and opinions. There are some variables that come into play that are difficult to quantify. In the 70's going into the 80's when law enforcement had a high fatality rate, officers were not trained nearly as well, were under armed and many to most did not have body armor. The other HUGE difference is with medical services. This is also why traffic fatalities went down over this time, increasing when Smartphone were invented. Even better trauma centers and EMS can't completely fix stupid.

We learned a lot from that time. The APC's, Humvees and MRAPs are liked by departments because of the price, often free. It provides them with a rescue tool and a way to get officers into locations safely (think North Hollywood shootout). I get they look scary to the public but note that virtually none of them have mounted offensive weapons (I'm sure there are exceptions).

And don't act like getting an LEO job is hard you need to have minimal fitness, pass range day, have a basic understanding of the law, and most importantly towe the line and follow orders. At least the military beats it into you that you can refuse to follow unlawful orders.

Nice try, but not even close to true. Last I saw for every 100 applicants one makes it to the academy. A percentage from there are lost in the academy and during the first year of probation. I know a field training officer who currently is finding it nearly impossible to pass people off training. Law enforcement isn't about following orders, it's about thinking on your feet all day long, going from a benign report call looking for an armed suspect and having someone answer the door with a gun. You almost never have a supervisor with you to give any orders.

 

[No_Regerts]

I dont remember police having APC and other clearly military vehicles when I was younger. A clear example is looking at the use of no knock warrents issued in the last 20 years. They did not really exist or were used on a very limited basis 30 years ago. Now every agency has a swat team and a budget for it. Very hard to argue with the fundamental change in policing in the last 20-30 years.

This is why line of duty deaths remain stagnant or decrease with more hours of policing. Better tactics and equipment.

The oath of an LEO says nothing about being prepared to give your life in the execution of your duties.

 

[No_Regerts]

And don't act like getting an LEO job is hard you need to have minimal fitness, pass range day, have a basic understanding of the law, and most importantly towe the line and follow orders. At least the military beats it into you that you can refuse to follow unlawful orders.

Show me on the doll where the mean po-lice man touched you....

 

[po18guy]

America does not need re-education camps. It needs education camps.

 

[USMC1911]

This is why line of duty deaths remain stagnant or decrease with more hours of policing. Better tactics and equipment.

The oath of an LEO says nothing about being prepared to give your life in the execution of your duties.

Riiiight. It has no relation to the decrease in violent crime...

 

[USMC1911]

Respect your input and opinions. There are some variables that come into play that are difficult to quantify. In the 70's going into the 80's when law enforcement had a high fatality rate, officers were not trained nearly as well, were under armed and many to most did not have body armor. The other HUGE difference is with medical services. This is also why traffic fatalities went down over this time, increasing when Smartphone were invented. Even better trauma centers and EMS can't completely fix stupid.

We learned a lot from that time. The APC's, Humvees and MRAPs are liked by departments because of the price, often free. It provides them with a rescue tool and a way to get officers into locations safely (think North Hollywood shootout). I get they look scary to the public but note that virtually none of them have mounted offensive weapons (I'm sure there are exceptions).

Truth is officer fatalities (on job) have been in decline starting in the 60s. IMO the extreme end of the spectrum should not drive the policies of policing.