What's your guys opinions on this bushmaster ar15?

[mjbskwim]

I haven't found the so called "higher end " guns at any hwere near the $1000 prices (and lower) that you can find the " lower tier" guns at.

+- $500 is not "the same price" to me at least.Complete guns of the brands you elitist shoot are $1500+ and the uppers start at $700+. I can't find them the same price as the Bushmasters or RRAs

If we're talking apples to apples,lowest to lowest. Sure if I'm willing,or need to have a $1500 AR I might spend another $200 to buy a BIG name brand.But I just plink and do some small game hunting.Why spend another $400 when I don't need to?

I would guess some of the so called elitist have enough money that they never even considered a lowly Bushmaster after a month on M4 and AR 15 forums.
Or have EVER EVEN shot one
"I couldn't be caught dead with one of those at the range" (in my best Ivy League voice)

I've said it before,buy an inexpensive on and shoot it.If it breaks,buy the next better one,repeat.Most of us won't destroy an AR.We just don't have the money to shoot 10,000 rounds a weekend.Or buy a $4000 AR in the first place.

Kind of seems like a loud golfing club to me

 

[74sporty]

I haven't found the so called "higher end " guns at any hwere near the $1000 prices (and lower) that you can find the " lower tier" guns at.

+- $500 is not "the same price" to me at least.Complete guns of the brands you elitist shoot are $1500+ and the uppers start at $700+. I can't find them the same price as the Bushmasters or RRAs

If we're talking apples to apples,lowest to lowest. Sure if I'm willing,or need to have a $1500 AR I might spend another $200 to buy a BIG name brand.But I just plink and do some small game hunting.Why spend another $400 when I don't need to?

I would guess some of the so called elitist have enough money that they never even considered a lowly Bushmaster after a month on M4 and AR 15 forums.
Or have EVER EVEN shot one
"I couldn't be caught dead with one of those at the range" (in my best Ivy League voice)

I've said it before,buy an inexpensive on and shoot it.If it breaks,buy the next better one,repeat.Most of us won't destroy an AR.We just don't have the money to shoot 10,000 rounds a weekend.Or buy a $4000 AR in the first place.

Kind of seems like a loud golfing club to me

thats why its nice to be able to build one for a good deal cheaper. i got a noveske with a little over $900 bucks into it. one of the best things you can focus money into is a good barrel. but if you buy something assembled, then you gotta pay for labor.
i cant stand a snooty snob just as much as the next guy, but i think the general argument is "build it yourself to get a better value"
i cant testify either way for Bushmaster, but i do know ill build before i buy (complete that is)

no offense, just playing through

 

[Stomper]

I haven't found the so called "higher end " guns at any hwere near the $1000 prices (and lower) that you can find the " lower tier" guns at.

+- $500 is not "the same price" to me at least.Complete guns of the brands you elitist shoot are $1500+ and the uppers start at $700+. I can't find them the same price as the Bushmasters or RRAs

If we're talking apples to apples,lowest to lowest. Sure if I'm willing,or need to have a $1500 AR I might spend another $200 to buy a BIG name brand.But I just plink and do some small game hunting.Why spend another $400 when I don't need to?

I would guess some of the so called elitist have enough money that they never even considered a lowly Bushmaster after a month on M4 and AR 15 forums.
Or have EVER EVEN shot one
"I couldn't be caught dead with one of those at the range" (in my best Ivy League voice)

I've said it before,buy an inexpensive on and shoot it.If it breaks,buy the next better one,repeat.Most of us won't destroy an AR.We just don't have the money to shoot 10,000 rounds a weekend.Or buy a $4000 AR in the first place.

Kind of seems like a loud golfing club to me

LMAO... CHECK!!

C'mon... the chamber/barrel and BCG are the parts that take the main pounding anyway and should be as good quality as you can find/afford, some even make lowers out of plastics these days for cryin' out loud. I just didn't like the funky "rail" on the upper in the OP and THAT was all that would keep my from buying that Bushy.

 

[Billy 4 HP]

I feel as if it'd greatly overwhelm me. I've never built anything like this and i don't know how easy it is for a novice.

Really not much to "building one"... But as the old saying goes, there is more than one way to skin a cat....

I recently got the AR "bug" again and bought a Bushmaster Dissapator (longer fore grip for supposed better cooling, heavy barrel, longer sight radius, A3 flat top, came removable sight/handle), 16" barrel, Wylde chamber shoots everything, 2" MOA or less at 100 yards with bulk ammo scoped, paid around $950.00 with a 30 round mag and case new. As I had been AR less for several years I wanted instant satisfaction, local gun shop had several S&W's, Bushmaster's and DPMS's to choose from. IMHO the Bushmaster had the best fit and finish, felt the smoothest as far and magazine installation, release drop out, least amount of upper to lower play, etc... To me it was the best one for me and my intended usage (Target shooting, SHTF, no worries fun gun).

I quasi built my next AR, complete Aero Precision lower from Surplus Ammo for $179.00 (plus S&H & Tax and $25.00 FFL transfer as I had it shipped) and bought a DPMS 20" heavy barrel, A3 flat top, Wylde chamber upper from Midway for $459.00 shipped. 1.5" MOA or less at 100 yards scoped with bulk ammo (gotta get the press and dies out and build up some hand loads). Bought two stainless C-Mag's with the barrel at $11.50 each or so... Took a bit to break it in compared to the Bushmaster out of the box, but after 100 rounds of shooting I resolved a quirky feeding issue it was having once every 10 rounds or so by removing a metal burr on one of the feed ramps. All this build took was taking the two big parts out of the box, give it a quick cleaning and pin them together. Took 1 hour tops as I molested the new parts with a cleaning rag, bore and chamber brushes, etc..

Easy enough to do the math and see how you can save a bunch of money fast. But as I stated the "built" gun took a bit of playing to get it "happy" as the DPMS upper had rough feed channels where the bullet tracks to bring the round into the chamber. Once I polished off a bit of a metal burr I found. Sewing machine smooth.

For a new AR owner that is looking for plug and play satisfaction I would recommend buying a complete gun from a reputable manufacturer first and "build" a second down the road a bit. AR's are like potato chips, you can't eat just one...

Good luck,

Billy

 

[Billy 4 HP]

I'd pass on the Bushmaster, the quality is spotty at best, and they ain't built for the long run.

But if you're a low round shooter, it'll last you a life time.

Can't say I agree with that unless you define "low round shooter" and what you define as spotty at best quality?

We have a Bushmaster in the family with nearly 4000 rounds through it without an issue. Still on the original barrel and shoots the same today as it did when it was new 10 years ago. 1.5 MOA with bulk ammo at 100 yards, less than 1.0 MOA with hand loads scoped. Gun has been used as a target rifle and coyote gun, splattered a few prarie dogs along the way. Never used for the "wish I would have joined the Army" weekend warrior hellfire shooting as that's not my cup of tea and my father who owns the rifle and is pushing 70 years old had served his country prior to the introduction of the M16..

IMHO, most AR problems, regardless of manufacturer, are brought on by the end user not cleaning and lubing the gun properly (read the damn manual people) and using low end ammo or modifying it with sub standard parts and then saying XXXXXX build's a crappy gun because I put ZZZZZ's trigger group and now the gun doesn't work right...

It's pretty amazing how a person can undo someone else's best work with shear negligence / ignorance in a short period of time.

JMHO...

 

[Billy 4 HP]

Meh... I hate the rail on the upper receiver.... IMHO you should go with a true A3 flat top upper reeciver.

X2

And the light duty barrel leaves alot to be desired IMHO...

 

[scrappydoo]

I feel that was an apples to apples comparison I made. Take the S&W M&P15 for example, as it's the same price.

Bushmaster XM15-ES2 16" flattop $899 (OP's price)
MPI Bolt - Batch tested
Pressure Test (HPT) Bolt - Batch tested
Shot Peened Bolt - No
Properly Staked Gas Key - It is staked, but there's reports it's not staked well.
Staked Castle Nut - No

S&W M&P15 16" Optic Ready $839 (I've seen it close to that price locally too)
MPI Bolt - All tested
Pressure Test (HPT) Bolt - All tested
Shot Peened Bolt - Yes
Properly Staked Gas Key - Yes
Staked Castle Nut - Yes

Do you really need that stuff? Probably not, but if you can get it at no extra charge why wouldn't you want it? And S&W has proven that you can do these features at reasonable prices. Btw, you wouldn't hear a peep out of me if the Bushy was priced at $699. At that price it would be a good deal, but at $899 it's not. All this "hate" isn't just badmouthing because of brand rivalry, it's legitimate gripes people have. And I'll bet the OP is glad he didn't jump on that purchase now that he knows there's other options.

 

[samuelm16]

those pictures look like the carbon 15 to me but id personally just buy an upper and buy a lower sepaerate takes two seconds to assemble and you are ready to roll for way less than 900

 

[ZigZagZeke]

The hatred comes from the fact that you can buy a properly built rifle for the same price.

Meaning that the Bushmaster is improperly built? Do you have some specifics that I can hang my hat on?

 

[scrappydoo]

Meaning that the Bushmaster is improperly built? Do you have some specifics that I can hang my hat on?

Post 48.

 

[wichaka]

Lets keep this in perspective...a question was asked and I responded, nothing more.

Owning one Bushmaster does make a track record for quality, having over 50 of them on my bench over the last few years for repairs does tell me something.

They are slapped together by assemblers without a whole lot of love put into them.

The bolt carrier key screws are not staked properly, and have seen too many of them come loose and jam the rifle. Have seen many a mis-machined bolt carriers that eat the gas rings, and poor quality extractors and springs.

It always amazes me when a question is asked, and someone throws out that they feel the product is sub-par... said person is deemed as "badmouthing" their beloved product. One would think their mother had just been slapped!

Ease up folks, its an inert object that has no feelings. Its a machine, if its built properly it'll run, it doesn't have a choice. But if its not built properly, it'll cause you heartache, and much of it.

I am not brand loyal, I don't buy junk, and won't recommend junk to anyone.

I like the old Snap-On Tool motto;
I'd rather explain the price of quality, then apologize for something less.

You can ask anyone on here that has PM'd me or posted here for advice...I've never steered anyone into junk, and won't.

If you don't like what I have to add, just move on.

 

[wichaka]

I feel that was an apples to apples comparison I made. Take the S&W M&P15 for example, as it's the same price.

Bushmaster XM15-ES2 16" flattop $899 (OP's price)
MPI Bolt - Batch tested
Pressure Test (HPT) Bolt - Batch tested
Shot Peened Bolt - No
Properly Staked Gas Key - It is staked, but there's reports it's not staked well.
Staked Castle Nut - No

S&W M&P15 16" Optic Ready $839 (I've seen it close to that price locally too)
MPI Bolt - All tested
Pressure Test (HPT) Bolt - All tested
Shot Peened Bolt - Yes
Properly Staked Gas Key - Yes
Staked Castle Nut - Yes

Do you really need that stuff? Probably not, but if you can get it at no extra charge why wouldn't you want it? And S&W has proven that you can do these features at reasonable prices. Btw, you wouldn't hear a peep out of me if the Bushy was priced at $699. At that price it would be a good deal, but at $899 it's not. All this "hate" isn't just badmouthing because of brand rivalry, it's legitimate gripes people have. And I'll bet the OP is glad he didn't jump on that purchase now that he knows there's other options.

I've T&E'd a few S&W M&P AR types, pulled them apart and looked them over...you'd be hard pressed to find much better for the money.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Lets keep this in perspective...a question was asked and I responded, nothing more.

Owning one Bushmaster does make a track record for quality, having over 50 of them on my bench over the last few years for repairs does tell me something.

They are slapped together by assemblers without a whole lot of love put into them.

The bolt carrier key screws are not staked properly, and have seen too many of them come loose and jam the rifle. Have seen many a mis-machined bolt carriers that eat the gas rings, and poor quality extractors and springs.

It always amazes me when a question is asked, and someone throws out that they feel the product is sub-par... said person is deemed as "badmouthing" their beloved product. One would think their mother had just been slapped!

Ease up folks, its an inert object that has no feelings. Its a machine, if its built properly it'll run, it doesn't have a choice. But if its not built properly, it'll cause you heartache, and much of it.

I am not brand loyal, I don't buy junk, and won't recommend junk to anyone.

I like the old Snap-On Tool motto;
I'd rather explain the price of quality, then apologize for something less.

You can ask anyone on here that has PM'd me or posted here for advice...I've never steered anyone into junk, and won't.

If you don't like what I have to add, just move on.

I'm not in the habit of accepting opinions as fact without some proof or at least some details about he reasoning behind the statements. So no, I'm usually not inclined to "move on" and just let bare assertions stand.

OK, so you have some experience with the brands in question. Good. I'll add your data to whatever else I collect on the subject, but I'm not ready to accept your opinion as fact.

 

[madcratebuilder]

People that repair guns only see broken guns and there's a hundred times more BM's out there than S&W's. If you search the net you can find horror stories about just about every brand name ever made. One of the things you pay for is quality control and right now I think S&W is doing better than BM. BM is now back in private ownership so that may change.

 

[deadshot2]

People that repair guns only see broken guns and there's a hundred times more BM's out there than S&W's. If you search the net you can find horror stories about just about every brand name ever made. One of the things you pay for is quality control and right now I think S&W is doing better than BM. BM is now back in private ownership so that may change.

Either there are a lot of "youngsters" here or people with short memories. There was a time that S&W produced products that were predominantly best described as "pure excrement". Today's "Cadillac" can also be tomorrows "Yugo". That's just the way the world works.

When it comes to AR-15's they are perfect for someone to build just what they want. One can literally build one from a bushel basket of mixed parts and have a surprisingly well performing firearm. Doesn't require a machine shop full of tools and equipment to make changes just a couple of basic tools to attach the barrel and tighten it.

 

[Buddhalux]

You think us Bushy owners get all irate when someone talks bad about our weapons. Talk some smack about how the new Kimber 45's are a PoS and you'll see the Rhapsody with Armeggedon riding in on it's coat strings.....

 

[wichaka]

You think us Bushy owners get all irate when someone talks bad about our weapons. Talk some smack about how the new Kimber 45's are a PoS and you'll see the Rhapsody with Armeggedon riding in on it's coat strings.....

Golly bob howdy yes! Again, you'd think someone had slapped their mother.

I have no dog in the fight, and am not brand loyal..I equally state what I know as fact no matter who the maker is, from what I get on the bench, as well as other 'smiths and armorers I know...we all share info of what we encounter.

From an LE guy as well as armorer, I have many contacts around the state as well as a few other states...so my contact with different makes of AR's is pretty vast. Word gets around fast if a certain make/model of any type of firearm is having problems. We don't want our guns to fail at the wrong time, neither should you...therefore all problems are checked out.
I armorer for a few different LE agencies around, so I get a variety of different makes and models on the bench.

I will never steer anyone to something that I feel is inferior, its not in me, and I'll only recommend a maker if asked.

One can't possible know how little I care what brand AR or handgun anyone buys or carries.

Be well

 

[wichaka]

...but I'm not ready to accept your opinion as fact.

...and I'm not asking you to.

 

[Stomper]

You think us Bushy owners get all irate when someone talks bad about our weapons. Talk some smack about how the new Kimber 45's are a PoS and you'll see the Rhapsody with Armeggedon riding in on it's coat strings.....

LMAO...that is FUNNY!!!

 

[74sporty]

Golly bob howdy yes! Again, you'd think someone had slapped their mother.


One can't possible know how little I care what brand AR or handgun anyone buys or carries.

Be well

i'll be well... but what about my poor mother? stop badmouthing her bushy!