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Whats your favorite 45 ACP deffensive load?

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by NK777, Jul 20, 2009.

  1. NK777

    NK777 West of Portland Member

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    I developed a 45 ACP +P loading that I am very happy with and I thought I would share.

    This is it:

    +P Brass
    230gr Zero Brand JHP
    8.1gr Power Pistol
    CCI magnum LP Primer
    AOL 1.234" medium crimp

    I find this load to be very consistent. 1000fps measured consistently using my Chrono out of a 5" barreled 1911. Out of my 3.25" barreled PT145 it measures consistently at 900fps. Recoil is obviously quite stiff out of the PT145 but not that bad out of the full size 1911.

    If you choose to use this load use +P brass. It is a safe load I see no pressure signs on the brass or primer.
     
  2. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    Is Zero a good brand of bullet, well tested? I'd never heard of it until I saw some for sale in lots of 1,000 on Gunbroker.
     
  3. NK777

    NK777 West of Portland Member

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    They work but the 230gr JHP expand a little early. They are plenty accurate. The 185gr JHP have to go pretty fast to expand reliably. Their 230gr FMJ are as good as any.

    For the price they can't be beat. http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RZD&Category_Code=ZBJ-45ACP

    i do wish they had some 200gr bullets though.
     
  4. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. Good link.
     
  5. Ishootbullseye

    Ishootbullseye Kent, Wa. Member

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    I have been to a couple to training sesions and all the instructors say buy what you are going to carry, factoryammo, do not use your reloaded Killier bullets that you might have to defend yourself in court. Use factory ammo. there ar many good rounds I personally carry Back Talon, and I know many say there are better rounds but I trust they will work for me. If you have ever seen the Talon after it has expanded thru soft media or even hard to soft you would know what I mean they are nasty and sharp talon's.
     
  6. NK777

    NK777 West of Portland Member

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    I hear you but that is the last thing I'm worried about in the unlikely event I have to shoot to defend myself. I am certain that I can not build a better round then what is commercially sold and I'm very willing to bet I can prove that in court if somebody was silly enough to try to make me out to be the bad guy.

    I further more believe that people that are worried about that kind of stuff are being overly paranoid. Like you just pointed out that your Black talons are better then my reloaded rounds. I don't doubt that at all. I do not use fancy expensive bonded bullets that are designed to expand with certain special characteristics like your talons or gold dots or any number of good defensive ammunition that is also loaded to exacting engineering spec's. If I ever produce a bullet that is more lethal then the commercial defensive rounds, it would be out of pure dumb luck. I load them only so that they are effective and not in an attempt to out do the engineers of commercially sold defensive ammunition.

    So in short, I'm not worried about it in the least and neither should you be IMHO.
     
  7. reloadem

    reloadem Monroe, OR Member

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    and if yours were better, you could have a new business
     
  8. HappyRoman

    HappyRoman Sherwood Forest Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I like your position, may not be defendable, but at least straight forward.

    I believe a std load, 230 fmj, std primer, std assorted brass with 5grs. of Reddot generates a military equivalent load.

    Good enough for the paper, wood, metal and the rock targets I train and practice on.

    Works in all my 45's, friends too. Realistically useful when I buy that factory box. No need to pay extra for fancy brass, mag primers, and hp bullets.

    Imo.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2009
  9. Ishootbullseye

    Ishootbullseye Kent, Wa. Member

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    I never said my Black Talon's were better than your reloads that was not my point, I am not paraniod about being sued only passing on what people in the "know" have passed on to me. It is very expensive to hire a lawyer to defend your actions so why would you put an extra obsacale in the way when buying a commercial load for carrying is not that much compared to the price of your gun, holster, and some other advice they told me, if you you do get into a shooting keep your mouth shut untill a lawyer is present to defend you, tell the cops this is a serious matter and you want a lawyer to protect yourself, your good intentions can put you into jail till the cops figure everything out. This was from a cop giving the class. Again I reload for everything I shoot "cheaper to shoot more" but I paid big bucks for these classes to learn and find it prudent to take there advice an some things.
     
  10. MarkAd

    MarkAd Port Orchard Well-Known Member

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    I just went to the Federal Expanding Metal Jacket rouod for self defense, Great consistent expansion and low recoil
     
  11. NK777

    NK777 West of Portland Member

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    I like the way red dot performs myself. I have loaded many 200gr plated bullets with 5.0 gr's red dot and I was always pleased with how they shot. Low recoil and nice accuracy. The only thing I didn't like about the load was all the little Red Dot's left in my barrel and magwell.

    Oh the only reason I worked the load up with a Mag primer is because thats all that was available at the time before the primer river completely stop flowing. I doubt seriously that this particular load will change much with a standard primer used. These rounds are only slightly more expensive to make then regular old plinking rounds. All my brass is at least once fired brass so that doesn't cost me anything. Only new brass I have is some 45 Super brass.

    You didn't have to say they were better because they more then likely are. I'm not a balistic engineer. I loaded it for a specific fps only to ensure the hollow point opens up reliably out of both the 5" barreled 1911's and the PT145's 3.25" barrel.

    I still say there is no point to be made here about factory ammunition. It is paranoia to worry that a court of law will rule against you because you reload, unless they can prove that you are a balistic engineer, which they can not because reloaders seldom are.
     
  12. jordanvraptor

    jordanvraptor Oregon City, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Back in the day I used to carry Hydra Shoks in all my pistols. Now, I realize there are some better bullets out there but I like the nickel plated casings for extraction reliability. As for liability, when asked why the Hydra-Shok round? I could say it was what the Portland Police Bureau used. I have no idea if they still use these rounds, I just think it is defensible in court to use what police or military use if you have had a lot of training with that equipment. YMMV.
     
  13. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    I'm not afraid of going to court and explaining a reload.

    I'm afraid of going to court if I ever have to shoot someone though. I hope the case is so clear cut the the DA doesn't press charges.

    However, my answer for reloads is that they are cheaper. They are no more deadly than good commercial self defense ammo, and it's my choice to save the money so I can practice more.
     
  14. NK777

    NK777 West of Portland Member

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    I like that and agree!

    Unfortunately nobodies posting a defensive load in this thread... I know I'm not alone here.
     
  15. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    OK, I like heavy bullets. I have no clue why light bullets are so popular in factory defensive loads right now. Heck, for the 9mm it's mostly 115 gr. I throw the BS flag, but that's just mho. Gimme a 147 gr.

    So for 45 acp, I'm going to say 230 gr JHP. I like Speer Gold Dot and Hornady XTP, maybe because they are still readily available. Standard primer. Since powder selections are limited right now, I'd go with the mid-range recommended load from the powder manufacturer. If the recommended loads were 4-6 grains of powder, I'd use 5.

    I'd then play around either side of that number looking for accuracy, not velocity.

    I've never viewed a light weight bullet or a FMJ bullet as a defensive round myself, but what the heck, that's just me.

    There's my $.02.

    Next? :)
     
  16. NK777

    NK777 West of Portland Member

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    Thanks but you do need to focus a little bit on velocity. I'm not saying you need to load +P by any means but you need enough fps to open up that hollow point effectively or there really is no point in using them.
     
  17. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    You're right, of course. Once I develop a load to where I like the accuracy, I check for expansion and penetration because different brands of bullets will give different results.

    I get four empty plastic 1 gallon milk jugs and fill them with water and line them up in a row where I can attempt to shoot through all of them.

    I expect the bullet to fully expand, and stop not farther than in the third jug. The second jug is better imho.

    Crude and rude maybe, but it works. If the bullet fails to expand, it will either go right through all of the jugs leaving a fairly clean exit hole, or it will stop in the third or fourth jug, unexpanded.

    Now that I have accuracy, penetration and expansion, I now load up 1,000 of them.

    This is all something I recently learned, reading.
     
  18. NK777

    NK777 West of Portland Member

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    Yes they will perform differently depending on brand of bullet.

    Good plan I like it! :thumbup:
     
  19. MWS

    MWS Oregon City,OR Member

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    Case: Winchester
    Primer: WLP
    Powder: W231 ( 6.0 gr. )
    Bullet: Hornady 185 HP-XTP

    And....It's what I carry.
     
  20. NK777

    NK777 West of Portland Member

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    That sounds like a decent defensive load. That's what 950 fps out of a 5" barrel? Sounds like a decent low recoil defensive round to me. I bet thats pretty accurate as well. Thanks for sharing. :thumbup: