What's your favorite 308/7.62 AR and why?

[U8395279]

Dude:



You have the exact same issue going on with your rifle that OutLawHoss experienced. Take a look again at this photo of your barrel. It is marked 308 Win, NOT 7.62 Nato.

So it is not the ammo's fault after all. Your problem is that you don't have a 7.62 Nato chamber either.

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[U8395279]

Eh, every rifle's gonna have issues.

This is not an "issue" though. It is a matter of using 7.62 Nato ammo in a 308 Win chamber. Both Jnarowe and OutlawHoss have experienced this problem, because their rifles are not chambered in 7.62 Nato.

There are lots of discussion on internet forums about this. If you have a 308 Win chamber, you should avoid using 7.62 military ammo.

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[Boboclown]

This is not an "issue" though. It is a matter of using 7.62 Nato ammo in a 308 Win chamber.

I meant the issue in reference to the SCAR-17. We just happened to post within the same time-frame. I know the difference between the two chambers, I mentioned it earlier. Before those posts that is.

 

[U8395279]

Eh, every rifle's gonna have issues. But really, anything that you can shoot is a great battle rifle. Even the AR-10 despite the nay-sayers (though I must stress that you get what you pay for).

Just a random tidbit of info that's relatively useless but still pertains to the topic at hand, the U.S army replaced the M110. With something from H&K. So if anyone wants to follow military fad and has a lot of money... H&K MR762 is probably the closest you'd get to it. IMO, the other alternatives do the job just as well for less money.

To each their own, but I will say that the ZQI brass is pretty good.

Well, as I pointed out in my latest posts, the ZQI ammo is obviously not at fault, as from looking at his photos, it is obvious that Jnarowe is also using a rifle with a barrel chambered in 308 Win, and not in 7.62 Nato. So he has the exact same situation that OutlawHoss has.

I still would never buy ammo or guns made by Muslims in Turkey, however. If the USA ends up sending all of its manufacturing overseas, we will eventually end up being a bankrupt state, just like Greece.

And anyone who thinks that Turkey is a so-called "ally" of the United States anymore has not followed the dramatic political changes that have taken place in Turkey since the Islamic Justice and Development Party took over the government in 2002. One of the first things that they did when they took power was to renege on the previous government's agreement to let the US military invade Iraq with a second front. If you remember back then, it really threw a major monkey wrench into our plans to overthrow Saddam.

Turkey and Saudi Arabia are both totally behind funding and supporting the Civil War in Syria. They are both Sunni Muslim nations, and the rebels in Syria are also Sunni Muslims. Turkey has also done a lot to support a variety of Islamic extremist Sunni rebel groups, who have in turn done great harm to Christian and Kurdish populations.

Why are own government is getting involved in this sectarian religious war between Sunni and Shia Muslims baffles me. The more we meddle in the Middle East, the more we are continuing to really screw things up even more.

 

[Boboclown]

Why are own government is getting involved in this sectarian religious war between Sunni and Shia Muslims baffles me.

Really? It baffles you? Number of reasons. Money, power, just plain old corruption. Take a pick.

That aside, if you can afford other options then fine. I'll continue to cut costs somewhere and still have brass to collect.

 

[OutlawHoss]

I don't think that it is fair to lump all M80 ammo together and consider them the same. I have had no problems with M80 ammo made by both Federal and Winchester here in the USA. One cannot consider all ammo manufacturers equal when it comes to quality control.

I've been shooting Winchester and Federal ammo for 50 years now. I would be damned before I would switch to buying that ZQI M80 ammo that is being imported from Turkey. I would honestly not care how low the price was. I would not put it in my rifle.

I would suspect that your issue was more related to your DPMS barrel than the ammo. It is my understanding that the LR308 model was equipped with a barrel designed for long range precision work, and thus has a 308 Winchester spec chamber. It was the only DPMS 308 rifle model that did not have a 7.62 chamber.

So I would not expect 7.62 ammo to perform well in your LR308. If you examine the barrel, you should find that it is marked 308 Win.

If you Google this topic, you will find a number of discussions on other websites about this issue of using M80 ammo in the LR308.
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Please note I did not condemn all M80 ammo just "This is an example where a FAL won't balk at this ammo but my particular AR does." It is exactly because the 1:10 twist is not ideal for a 147gr bullet at 2700fps; it's over stabilized and shoots like a football. 1:12 is far more suited to 147gr ammo at 2700fps, whereas a 1:10 is suited for the M118LR type rounds, or 168gr up to 2775fps before it becomes overstabilized, which is why I load 168gr BTHP's in LC brass. The lower does say .308WIN, while the barrel says 7.62x51, and it fires both fine. And to explain yet again, the external dimension of the .308WIN and 7.62 are nearly identical, whereas the internal dimensions are reduced by 2 gr due to thicker brass due to mil specs. The reason it is said not to use .308WIN in a 7.62 chamber is due to rated max pressures, not chamber dimensions; one can fire 7.62 in a .308WIN as the commercial SAAMI specs have higher rated pressures. There may be some chamber dimension differences between guns and manufacturers, but the specs are the specs.

 

[Boboclown]

No issues with M80 ball ammo in my 1:10 twist barrel.

That aside. .308 in 7.62 NATO chamber is for the most part fine. If you're not planning to reload. Case head separation will be your issue in a 7.62 NATO chamber. I used to think it was the pressure, but no its that the brass is too thin to handle a longer chamber. If you don't mind the occasional case head separation and brass that you're not gonna reload, you're good to go.

 

[OutlawHoss]

No issues with M80 ball ammo in my 1:10 twist barrel.

That aside. .308 in 7.62 NATO chamber is for the most part fine. If you're not planning to reload. Case head separation will be your issue in a 7.62 NATO chamber. I used to think it was the pressure, but no its that the brass is too thin to handle a longer chamber. If you don't mind the occasional case head separation and brass that you're not gonna reload, you're good to go.

Not surprising as every gun is different, even two guns made one right after the other in manufacturing. That's why reloading offers the ability to fine tune a round, in every aspect, to your particular rifle. I'm not claiming an absolute generalization about what will and won't fire, just what I know about my rifle; given there are so many factors, the exceptions exceed the basic 'rules'. I know plenty of people use M80 in 1:10 barrels with no problems; the stability is 2.4 according to JBM, which is very good. And it does fire in mine, it just has horrible ballistics compared to a 168gr, (also with a 2.4 stability) and that may just come down to preference, not a design flaw. There are mysterious factors or gremlins at play!
I've never had case head problems with commercial or milsurp brass in my 308 AR, and conversely in my Savage 10FP. I've put some M118LR's through it, and the work fine, but my handloads out perform them as I can seat the bullet optimally and adjust the charge. Untimely or unusual case head separation would be a sign of pressure issues, mainly if you're loading a hot load, but in factory ammo it wouldn't be an issue. I like LC brass as it is thicker, and with my custom loads, it lasts a long time.

 

[Boboclown]

Chances are you won't have issues with .308 in 7.62 NATO chambers. It depends on the chamber in question. If it headspaces .308 well, no issues. If not, stretched cases and case head separatuon can happen.

 

[U8395279]

Really? It baffles you? Number of reasons. Money, power, just plain old corruption. Take a pick.

That aside, if you can afford other options then fine. I'll continue to cut costs somewhere and still have brass to collect.

Turkey is continuing to descend into being an Islamic dictatorship. It is no longer a healthy functioning democracy. Insulting the President has been made a major crime, punishable by many years in prison. And now the immunity from prosecution for members of the legislature is being done away with, so that Erdogan can now easily imprison members of the minorities parties that oppose his rule and speak out against him.

The man has been in power now for 18 years, and has announced no plans to retire. That is a de facto dictatorship, no matter how one looks at it.

Just take a look at this news report from Turkey today at the link below. Check out the video of the rioting on the floor of the Parliament.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...aff339-67f3-49f1-a96a-a163354bd4ff_story.html

It is not a matter of being able to afford to buy other ammo. It is a matter of not supporting an evil regime that is an enemy of our country. And also supporting American companies and their employees here in the USA.

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[Boboclown]

It is about what you can afford actually. If a person can't afford more, should they just not have it? I have American made ammo, but I don't plink with them due to cost. Sorry we're not all rich.

 

[Jnarowe]

Thank you all for your comments. I am still having trouble finding commercially made rounds that will cycle in this rifle. Obviously there are a lot of variables and I am working through them. I did get the case gauge from JP and the differences in 9 different rounds I have tried so far, are miniscule and yet obviously important. The best firing round so far is the Hornady match .308 168. But I don't like the plastic tips. I found another round from Freedom, 150 gr SPBT that performed OK, but not 100%, as well as the Federal 180 gr Soft Point. The Hornady is the only round I have tried that fired 100% of the time.

As a good friend said to me one day out messing with this, "You built a precision rifle, not a battle rifle". And of course he continually encourages me to reload. Next step is to contact JP to get their advice on the best rounds to try, and work on the variables like gas and spring.

Anyone that has the same barrel/bolt combo I would love to hear about what you feed yours. Thanks!

 

[OutlawHoss]

The factory rounds that I have fired with great success/reliability in the DPMS .308, are Ultramax 168gr and PPU 168gr. From the ballistics I recorded from these rounds I developed my round. When asked, Ultramax said they used Varget powder in their round.
The costs of these brands is more conducive to buying larger quantities, and you get decent brass to reload (LC from Ultramax, PPU is commercial).
If you find a factory load that performs well and to your needs, then pursuing info about that load will help you replicate and hopefully improve the performance of your rifle. That's one tact to try anyway.

 

[U8395279]

Thank you all for your comments. I am still having trouble finding commercially made rounds that will cycle in this rifle. Obviously there are a lot of variables and I am working through them. I did get the case gauge from JP and the differences in 9 different rounds I have tried so far, are miniscule and yet obviously important. The best firing round so far is the Hornady match .308 168. But I don't like the plastic tips. I found another round from Freedom, 150 gr SPBT that performed OK, but not 100%, as well as the Federal 180 gr Soft Point. The Hornady is the only round I have tried that fired 100% of the time.

As a good friend said to me one day out messing with this, "You built a precision rifle, not a battle rifle". And of course he continually encourages me to reload. Next step is to contact JP to get their advice on the best rounds to try, and work on the variables like gas and spring.

Anyone that has the same barrel/bolt combo I would love to hear about what you feed yours. Thanks!

It looks like Mega Arms is using their own OEM brand barrels, built by someone else, but with their name put on it. Have you called them to ask who actually makes their barrels?

Does your barrel have the Mega logo on it? Or something else? Or did you buy the barrel separately, from another source?
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From your earlier photos I could not make out any brand name on the barrel. But I could clearly see that it said Match .308 Winchester on it.
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If worse comes to worse, you could always consider switching to a new barrel chambered in 7.62 NATO.

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[Jnarowe]

It looks like Mega Arms is using their own OEM brand barrels, built by someone else, but with their name put on it. Have you called them to ask who actually makes their barrels?

Does your barrel have the Mega logo on it? Or something else? Or did you buy the barrel separately, from another source?
.

View attachment 295511
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From your earlier photos I could not make out any brand name on the barrel. But I could clearly see that it said Match .308 Winchester on it.
.
If worse comes to worse, you could always consider switching to a new barrel chambered in 7.62 NATO.

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It's a JP - JPSM308-16L10M 16" length ● 1:10 twist ● light contour

And your point about switching barrels is a consideration. I used this barrel more for its inherent longevity, but that may ultimately have been a mistake.

 

[mjbskwim]

Well, as I pointed out in my latest posts, the ZQI ammo is obviously not at fault, as from looking at his photos, it is obvious that Jnarowe is also using a rifle with a barrel chambered in 308 Win, and not in 7.62 Nato. So he has the exact same situation that OutlawHoss has.

I still would never buy ammo or guns made by Muslims in Turkey, however. If the USA ends up sending all of its manufacturing overseas, we will eventually end up being a bankrupt state, just like Greece.

And anyone who thinks that Turkey is a so-called "ally" of the United States anymore has not followed the dramatic political changes that have taken place in Turkey since the Islamic Justice and Development Party took over the government in 2002. One of the first things that they did when they took power was to renege on the previous government's agreement to let the US military invade Iraq with a second front. If you remember back then, it really threw a major monkey wrench into our plans to overthrow Saddam.

Turkey and Saudi Arabia are both totally behind funding and supporting the Civil War in Syria. They are both Sunni Muslim nations, and the rebels in Syria are also Sunni Muslims. Turkey has also done a lot to support a variety of Islamic extremist Sunni rebel groups, who have in turn done great harm to Christian and Kurdish populations.

Why are own government is getting involved in this sectarian religious war between Sunni and Shia Muslims baffles me. The more we meddle in the Middle East, the more we are continuing to really screw things up even more.

Your government is doing the same things you say Turkey is doing

 

[Jnarowe]

The factory rounds that I have fired with great success/reliability in the DPMS .308, are Ultramax 168gr and PPU 168gr. From the ballistics I recorded from these rounds I developed my round. When asked, Ultramax said they used Varget powder in their round.
The costs of these brands is more conducive to buying larger quantities, and you get decent brass to reload (LC from Ultramax, PPU is commercial).
If you find a factory load that performs well and to your needs, then pursuing info about that load will help you replicate and hopefully improve the performance of your rifle. That's one tact to try anyway.

Thank you. I am also getting un-fired rounds. Slight dimple on the primer, but not firing. So many things not going right, it's very frustrating. But then I go back to the Hornady Match and it does fine. JP provides a significant amount of information on loading for their guns, much of which is over my head at this point.

 

[U8395279]

Your government is doing the same things you say Turkey is doing

Very true, but I do not support Obama's policies either. Do you?

When Obama demanded that Israel had to agree to return to its 1967 borders, I knew then on whose side Obama was really on.

If Clinton gets elected, she will no doubt get us even deeper into this Islamic Civil War. She has vowed repeatedly to do just that. And the Saudi government has bribed her with many millions of dollars to the Clinton Foundation. She is pretty much a Saudi lap dog. She will bark when they tell her to.

 

[U8395279]

It's a JP - JPSM308-16L10M 16" length ● 1:10 twist ● light contour

And your point about switching barrels is a consideration. I used this barrel more for its inherent longevity, but that may ultimately have been a mistake.

If you are interested, here is a link to info about the barrel that I got for my 308 AR.

They went to great length in their advertising to state that the chamber is both 308 Win and 7.62 NATO compatible.

Barrel, 18.5", .308 AR, Light Weight, 1x10, Chrome Lined, Threaded, Match Quality, FA by Criterion (http://www.fulton-armory.com/barrelfatitan185lwcm1x10750gasblockchrome-lined.aspx)

Mine is a light contour. But they also have a heavier medium contour, a contour that matches the Army's M110 sniper rifle, and a full bull barrel too.

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[Jnarowe]

I would have loved to get a full barrel in .308 but JP didn't have one in the shorter length available. Thanks for the link!