What's this rifle?......

[Mikej]

I like looking at the different rifles that Atlantic carries. I bought a Polish AK 47 from them about a year ago, and it was a smooth experience.

Century Arms C308 Sporter Rifle RI2253-X

This rifle looks pretty neat and I have no idea of it's history, but it seems like a lot of gun for less than $700.00? I really doubt that I want to get into a .308 though. I'm already into an AR15, AK 47 and .30 Carbine that I don't get out to shoot as much as I'd like!

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[MountainBear]

More or less a Cetme, I think.

Brought to you by the same trained monkeys that brought you the high quality canted sight AK's.

 

[bolus]

Save up little more for a PTR91. Lowest prices now are around mid-$700 for the PTR. dont go with the century.

I have one if you ever want to try it out.

Satisfying to shoot, but runs dirty and mine launches the brass down range about 30 yards. These guns eat brass as well so many of them are damaged.

But its a F'ing battle rifle. Vary satisfying to shoot.

 

[Mikej]

More or less a Cetme, I think.

Brought to you by the same trained monkeys that brought you the high quality canted sight AK's.

Ha! I musta' got lucky, the sights on my AK were NOT canted!

That CETME part was what I didn't understand. Too many acronyms is this business I tell ya'.

 

[MountainBear]

Cetme was the Spanish version of the German HK rifle.

Try this bit of reading...

What's the differences between the G3 and the CETME? - The FAL Files

 

[bolus]

CETME's were developed by a German who based it on StG 45's. Spain put them into production in the late 50's and then HK used the design for the HK G3 battle rifle.

The receiver design was used as a basis for several HK guns like the famous MP5

The receiver for the CETME, HK G3 and PTR 91 are all the same
PTR 91 Receiver

PTR has made a nicer version than century. It costs a little more but is going to be a much more reliable rifle.

Springfield made the SAR 8, another version

If you wanted a rifle like this, you would want an HK first (but will never find one). PTR91 is the next best, probably a SAR 8 next if you can find one used, then all the other versions, and then the century last.

 

[bolus]

Wikipedia has a good history of these rifles here
Heckler & Koch G3 - Wikipedia

If you want a very good HK pattern rifle, then get one of these (they start at $12,000)
TSC Machine — HK21-K

 

[11Charlie]

This is why I like this forum! You guys are a wealth of knowledge and have probably forgotten more than I'll know about firearms in my life time.

 

[308]

The fluted chamber makes for some dirty brass.

 

[308]

Data for CETME mod. B / Mod. 58 rifle
Caliber: 7.62x51 mm reduced power load; also 7.62x51mm NATO
Action: delayed blowback
Overall length: 1015 mm
Barrel length: 450 mm
Weight: 4.4 kg
Rate of fire: 550 - 600 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 20 or 30 rounds

The Spanish state company CETME (Centro de Estudios Tecnicos de Materiales Especiales - Special Materials Technical Studies Center, now known as Empresa National Santa Barbara) was founded in 1949 to develop various small arms for Spanish army.

At about the same time it employed the German arms designer Ludwig Vorgrimler, who worked for the famous Mauser Werke in Germany before and during the World War 2. The Vorgrimler was the designer of the experimental German assault rifle, known as "Gerat 06" or Stg.45(M). This rifle was not manufactured in any quantities, but its design served as a basis for further development at the CETME, and more important, at the another German company, Heckler & Koch, which obtained a license for the Vorgrimler / CETME rifle design circa 1957. This deal later resulted in the famous family of the H&K weapons, like the <broken link removed> and <broken link removed> assault rifles, <broken link removed> machine guns, <broken link removed> submachine guns and numerous other small arms that achieved a worldwide popularity. All those weapons are built using the delayed blowback system of operation, designed by Vorgrimler and his men at the Mauser in 1945 and refined by CETME.

The initial assault rifle development at the CETME was conducted around proprietary intermediate cartridge, known as 7.92x40mm CETME. This cartridge featured a long and streamlined bullet, made from aluminum. The overall design was found adequate, but cartridge was rejected in favor of the 7.62x51mm round with lighter bullet and a reduced powder charge. Improved rifle entered serial production in 1956 and was adopted by the Spanish army in 1957. In 1958 CETME introduced a slightly improved design, known as Modelo B or Model 58. This rifle was intended to fire 7.62x51mm reduced loads but also could fire the standard 7.62mm NATO, if the bolt group and the return spring are replaced with the appropriate set of parts.

In 1964, CETME introduced the Modelo C, which also was adopted by Spanish Army, Navy and Air Force. This rifle was intended to fire only standard, full power 7.62x51mm NATO ammunition. Its key improvements were 4-position diopter sights (instead of the earlier leaf type open sights), wooden handguards instead of earlier steel ones, bipod was made as a separate part and, most important, the chamber was fluted to improve extraction and avoid torn rims and cartridge case failures in harsh environment conditions. Production of the modelo C rifle was ceased in 1976, and in 1980s it had been gradually replaced by its 5.56mm derivative, <broken link removed> assault rifle.

All 7.62mm CETME rifles are built around Vorgrimlers' roller delayed blowback system. This system employs a two parts bolt with two rollers. The front bolt part (bolt head) is relatively light and has a bolt face with extractor on it. It also has a hollow cavity at the rear, in which an inclined forward end of the rear part of the bolt (bolt body) is inserted. The system features two rollers, inserted from the sides into the bolt head and rested on the inclined forward end of the bolt body.

When gun is fired, the pressure began to move the cartridge back against the bolt face. The rollers, which are extended into the recesses in the barrel extension, began to move inward into the bolt head, due to inclined shape of the recesses. This movement translates into the faster rearward movement of the heavier bolt body, so, at the initial moments of shot, when pressure in the chamber is still high, bolt face moves relatively slow. When pressure drops to a reasonable level, rollers disengage the barrel extension completely and from this moment on the bolt head and the bolt body move backward at the same speed, extracting and ejecting spent case and chambering a fresh cartridge on the way back.

All CETME rifles are firing from the closed bolt. The trigger mechanism is hammer fired, and in military versions is capable in semi-automatic and fully automatic modes of fire.

On the early models the safety / fire mode selector switch was located above the trigger at the right side of the gun. From the model C the safety / selector switch was relocated to the left side of the gun.

The receiver is made from steel sheet stampings, as well as the trigger group housing, which is hinged to the receiver just behind the magazine housing. Early models (prior to Modelo C) were issued with integral folding metallic bipods and open leaf-type rear sights.

The Modelo C rifles were issued with wooden handguards and a separate detachable bipods. The rear sights were replaced by the 4 positions diopter sights, marked for 100 - 400 meters range. All rifles featured a wooden buttstock and a folding carrying handle above the receiver.

The flash hider of the Modelo C rifles was shaped to accept and launch NATO-standard rifle grenades. Most rifles were issued with magazines of 20 rounds capacity and made of steel, but 30 rounds magazines also were available.


One of mine with the HK furniture

 

[Mikej]

Wikipedia has a good history of these rifles here
Heckler & Koch G3 - Wikipedia

If you want a very good HK pattern rifle, then get one of these (they start at $12,000)
TSC Machine — HK21-K

You've got to love a doctor with a sense of humor!

This is why I like this forum! You guys are a wealth of knowledge and have probably forgotten more than I'll know about firearms in my life time.

Indeed!

I appreciate the info from everyone. I could have googled and probably found all the info but what's the fun in that? Besides, since I've been here I've always got the idea that we really like talking about guns. So.....

View attachment 324761


Data for CETME mod. B / Mod. 58 rifle
Caliber: 7.62x51 mm reduced power load; also 7.62x51mm NATO
Action: delayed blowback
Overall length: 1015 mm
Barrel length: 450 mm
Weight: 4.4 kg
Rate of fire: 550 - 600 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 20 or 30 rounds

The Spanish state company CETME (Centro de Estudios Tecnicos de Materiales Especiales - Special Materials Technical Studies Center, now known as Empresa National Santa Barbara) was founded in 1949 to develop various small arms for Spanish army.

At about the same time it employed the German arms designer Ludwig Vorgrimler, who worked for the famous Mauser Werke in Germany before and during the World War 2. The Vorgrimler was the designer of the experimental German assault rifle, known as "Gerat 06" or Stg.45(M). This rifle was not manufactured in any quantities, but its design served as a basis for further development at the CETME, and more important, at the another German company, Heckler & Koch, which obtained a license for the Vorgrimler / CETME rifle design circa 1957. This deal later resulted in the famous family of the H&K weapons, like the <broken link removed> and <broken link removed> assault rifles, <broken link removed> machine guns, <broken link removed> submachine guns and numerous other small arms that achieved a worldwide popularity. All those weapons are built using the delayed blowback system of operation, designed by Vorgrimler and his men at the Mauser in 1945 and refined by CETME.

The initial assault rifle development at the CETME was conducted around proprietary intermediate cartridge, known as 7.92x40mm CETME. This cartridge featured a long and streamlined bullet, made from aluminum. The overall design was found adequate, but cartridge was rejected in favor of the 7.62x51mm round with lighter bullet and a reduced powder charge. Improved rifle entered serial production in 1956 and was adopted by the Spanish army in 1957. In 1958 CETME introduced a slightly improved design, known as Modelo B or Model 58. This rifle was intended to fire 7.62x51mm reduced loads but also could fire the standard 7.62mm NATO, if the bolt group and the return spring are replaced with the appropriate set of parts.

In 1964, CETME introduced the Modelo C, which also was adopted by Spanish Army, Navy and Air Force. This rifle was intended to fire only standard, full power 7.62x51mm NATO ammunition. Its key improvements were 4-position diopter sights (instead of the earlier leaf type open sights), wooden handguards instead of earlier steel ones, bipod was made as a separate part and, most important, the chamber was fluted to improve extraction and avoid torn rims and cartridge case failures in harsh environment conditions. Production of the modelo C rifle was ceased in 1976, and in 1980s it had been gradually replaced by its 5.56mm derivative, <broken link removed> assault rifle.

All 7.62mm CETME rifles are built around Vorgrimlers' roller delayed blowback system. This system employs a two parts bolt with two rollers. The front bolt part (bolt head) is relatively light and has a bolt face with extractor on it. It also has a hollow cavity at the rear, in which an inclined forward end of the rear part of the bolt (bolt body) is inserted. The system features two rollers, inserted from the sides into the bolt head and rested on the inclined forward end of the bolt body.

When gun is fired, the pressure began to move the cartridge back against the bolt face. The rollers, which are extended into the recesses in the barrel extension, began to move inward into the bolt head, due to inclined shape of the recesses. This movement translates into the faster rearward movement of the heavier bolt body, so, at the initial moments of shot, when pressure in the chamber is still high, bolt face moves relatively slow. When pressure drops to a reasonable level, rollers disengage the barrel extension completely and from this moment on the bolt head and the bolt body move backward at the same speed, extracting and ejecting spent case and chambering a fresh cartridge on the way back.

All CETME rifles are firing from the closed bolt. The trigger mechanism is hammer fired, and in military versions is capable in semi-automatic and fully automatic modes of fire.

On the early models the safety / fire mode selector switch was located above the trigger at the right side of the gun. From the model C the safety / selector switch was relocated to the left side of the gun.

The receiver is made from steel sheet stampings, as well as the trigger group housing, which is hinged to the receiver just behind the magazine housing. Early models (prior to Modelo C) were issued with integral folding metallic bipods and open leaf-type rear sights.

The Modelo C rifles were issued with wooden handguards and a separate detachable bipods. The rear sights were replaced by the 4 positions diopter sights, marked for 100 - 400 meters range. All rifles featured a wooden buttstock and a folding carrying handle above the receiver.

The flash hider of the Modelo C rifles was shaped to accept and launch NATO-standard rifle grenades. Most rifles were issued with magazines of 20 rounds capacity and made of steel, but 30 rounds magazines also were available.


One of mine with the HK furniture
View attachment 324762

Dang 308, that's what I was looking for. Thank you! That's a real pretty rifle you've got there.

Seems to me the HK was an answer to the AK 47, sort of? Here's the problem....If I get to liking what I see there, and get to thinking about it from time to time, then another article in some mag, or someone on here get's to asking questions or talking about one. "Sigh", this just could be a "Next Gun" for me. I don't have two of anything. My tastes in firearms aren't well developed so I sit around with no idea what I might want next, if at all. Then something triggers, no pun intended, my radar and get me to thinking.

We'll see.

 

[Boboclown]

Seems to me the HK was an answer to the AK 47, sort of?

The G3 was because FN said "NOPE" when they tried to get the production license to produce the FAL.

 

[bolus]

Another advantage is mags are cheep. I got 50 surplus ones for $1 each on a sale a while back. Only had to throw out a couple. A few had rust that cleaned up easily. Probably half of them were brand new, still in packaging.

Here are some for $3.50
good condition HK G3 Aluminum 20 RD 308 cal magazine Surplus Used

 

[Boboclown]

In addition to cheap mags, as well as inexpensive cost of the rifle (in comparison to other .308 semiautos), the PTR-91 is also pretty accurate. The downside, aside from doing a number on brass, is that they tend to be on the heavy side.

 

[Ura-Ki]

I love my CETME Still, even with all the little nagging draw backs like launching brass three counties over, mangling brass, and the heavy recoil due to bolt mass, it's still better then many "Other" battle rifles, and surprisingly accurate at pretty good distances, Plus I think it has the right look and feel for a rifle that's going to get some use, and the controls are very good! It's no FAL, but its still a Good RIfle! I agree with others, PTR is the way to go if you do decide to get one!

 

[308]

Another advantage is mags are cheep. I got 50 surplus ones for $1 each on a sale a while back. Only had to throw out a couple. A few had rust that cleaned up easily. Probably half of them were brand new, still in packaging.

Here are some for $3.50
good condition HK G3 Aluminum 20 RD 308 cal magazine Surplus Used

Some mags need to be adjusted slightly to lock up in the magwell. Not everyone has this issue, but I've had to file the mag stop/dimples a bit to help the mags lock up.

 

[bolus]

Some mags need to be adjusted slightly to lock up in the magwell. Not everyone has this issue, but I've had to file the mag stop/dimples a bit to help the mags lock up.
View attachment 324808 View attachment 324809
View attachment 324810 View attachment 324811
View attachment 324812

I have the same action cover. New ones here for $18
CETME Action Cover ORIGINAL G3 HK91 - German G3 HK91

 

[mjbskwim]

Cetme was the Spanish version of the German HK rifle.

Try this bit of reading...

What's the differences between the G3 and the CETME? - The FAL Files

Not correct.
The CETME is the father to the HK91. HK has a bigger name so we call the CETME the clone. Not so.
There was a stigma about how Century arms put them together but I have had about 5 different guns and all they did was fling lead. From all over the world.
Only thing it didn't like was soft nose hunting rounds.
The price break in that add is about right. But if it shoots like mine you will be pleasantly surprised.
My CETME will be the gun I will go down in flames with. If it comes to that.
BTW, with open sights, I have shot it to 400 yards with acceptable accuracy.
I do want another one

 

[308]

It has been my understanding that after WW2, some German engineers went to Spain to develop the CETME which later became the HK91. I believe it had to do with the Amristice agreement where German could not produce weapons for some period of time after the war.

CETME Modelo 58 / Modelo B (Assault Rifle Modelo 58 / Modelo B) - Development and Operational History, Performance Specifications and Picture Gallery
The Cetme Assault Rifle

 

[Ura-Ki]

Skwim and 308 are correct. The CETME was first, and H-K bought the licence to cover the German needs to "fit in " with the NATO alliance, having turned it's nose up at the offerings from FN and America. H-K was in the position to manufacture arms as it wasn't one of the manufactures that had been banned like Mauser, Walther, and Rheinmetall. Because H-K was a multi National Manufacture, they got the OK from the Nato Allies to go ahead with a "German State Owned" company at the helm, subject to restrictions imposed BY Nato! The CETME was THE design to meet the new Nato requirements for the new generation of Fighting Rifles, and that's how it all came to be! Interesting in this time of political maneuvering in that FN had been selected to trials for the new U.S. service rifle and had done exceptionally well during those trials, but a group of Politicians put their food down and declared one of the lesser contenders the Winner of that contract That's how we got the M-14, and the same thing happend later with the adoption of the M-16!!!