What's the story with SBR's in WA?

[KidJavelin]

Are they legal here? I know you can have rifle caliber "pistols" if they get registered and don't have stocks on them. I'm considering a custom build, mostly to see if I can do it, and I wanted to stay within the realm of legality.

Does a rifle with a 16-18 inch barrel in a bulpup configuration constitute a SBR?

John

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[Jeedia]

No they are not legal. Barrel lenghth must be over 16 inches. As well as there is an over all lenght but I dont know it off the top of my head.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Not legal but some activists are working on it, as well as SBS, which interest me a lot more

 

[del_and_bones]

A SBR is defined as having a barrel length <16" OR OAL <26". The OAL is measured at the maximum point of extension, stem to stern.

Example: If an AK has a 16" barrel, folding stock and is under 26" with the stock folded is OKAY. An AR15 with a collapsible stock that is under 26" collapsed and 26"+ extended is OKAY. The OAL is measured with the stock extended. I know this ^ doesn't apply to bullpups, I just wanted to clarify the federal law. Make sure WA law uses the same measurement method, YMMV.

Note: A SBS is defined as having a barrel length <18" OR OAL <26".

 

[KidJavelin]

That's why I want to know how it relates to bullpups. So a 16" barrel in front of an action/receiver that measures say 10" is legal (26")?

 

[Nwcid]

Are they legal here? I know you can have rifle caliber "pistols" if they get registered and don't have stocks on them. I'm considering a custom build, mostly to see if I can do it, and I wanted to stay within the realm of legality.

Does a rifle with a 16-18 inch barrel in a bulpup configuration constitute a SBR?

John

There is NO registration in WA state. NFA items would need registered but that is still with the ATF not WA.

As it was stated 16" barrel and 26" minimum OAL length is the law for Rifles. Pistols can be of any length you choose but here is the Federal definition, "Small projectile firearms which have a short one-hand stock or butt at an angle to the line of bore and a short barrel or barrels, and which are designed, made, and intended to be aimed and fired from one hand". Comes from, 27 CFR 53.11 - Meaning of terms. | LII / Legal Information Institute

 

[Nwcid]

That's why I want to know how it relates to bullpups. So a 16" barrel in front of an action/receiver that measures say 10" is legal (26")?

Yes bullpup has to be a total of 26" OAL with a barrel of at least 16" for a rifle, 18" for a shotgun.

 

[JAFO]

There is NO registration in WA state. NFA items would need registered but that is still with the ATF not WA.

There is registration in WA of any handgun bought through a licensed dealer. The handguns do not get removed from the registry unless you fill out this form.

 

[Redcap]

There is registration in WA of any handgun bought through a licensed dealer. The handguns do not get removed from the registry unless you fill out this form.

Just another reason to always do FTF private transfers.

 

[Nwcid]

There is registration in WA of any handgun bought through a licensed dealer. The handguns do not get removed from the registry unless you fill out this form.

Again there is NO Federal or WA registration on ANY Title 1 firearm. Please show me where this happens. I know I NEVER have had any registered. I do have NFA items that are registered.

 

[JAFO]

Again there is NO Federal or WA registration on ANY Title 1 firearm. Please show me where this happens. I know I NEVER have had any registered. I do have NFA items that are registered.

If you ever bought a handgun from a Washington dealer you have had it registered. You filled out a 4473 and a State application to transfer pistol (which gets filed in the DOL registry). You can use this form to get the record of what DOL has on file for you.

It's never too late to start paying attention to contracts that you sign.

RCW 9.41.110
Dealer's licenses, by whom granted, conditions, fees &#8212; Employees, fingerprinting and background checks &#8212; Wholesale sales excepted &#8212; Permits prohibite

...

(9)(a) A true record in triplicate shall be made of every pistol sold, in a book kept for the purpose, the form of which may be prescribed by the director of licensing and shall be personally signed by the purchaser and by the person effecting the sale, each in the presence of the other, and shall contain the date of sale, the caliber, make, model and manufacturer's number of the weapon, the name, address, occupation, and place of birth of the purchaser and a statement signed by the purchaser that he or she is not ineligible under RCW 9.41.040 to possess a firearm.

(b) One copy shall within six hours be sent by certified mail to the chief of police of the municipality or the sheriff of the county of which the purchaser is a resident; the duplicate the dealer shall within seven days send to the director of licensing; the triplicate the dealer shall retain for six years.

 

[KidJavelin]

Yes bullpup has to be a total of 26" OAL with a barrel of at least 16" for a rifle, 18" for a shotgun.

That's what I needed to know. Many thanks.

John

 

[KidJavelin]

There is registration in WA of any handgun bought through a licensed dealer. The handguns do not get removed from the registry unless you fill out this form.

He's not talking about handguns. He's referring to Title 1 firearms. Short barreled rifles/shotguns, automatic weapons and other "destructive devices".

 

[TCOV]

Again there is NO Federal or WA registration on ANY Title 1 firearm. Please show me where this happens. I know I NEVER have had any registered. I do have NFA items that are registered.


Since you fill out a Washington State form for purchase of a handgun that goes in state and local records and no one has shown that those records are ever closed your handgun would be registered at the state and possibly the local level. The state and people claim that there is no handgun registration in Washington as it is not required for private party transactions, only a transaction thru an ffl dealer. My opinion, a handgun purchase thru an ffl in Washington is registered with the state. Purchase private party no.

The original post did mention state registration of pistols. Aren't short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns, full auto weapons registered federally and mostly illegal in WA anyway?

 

[JAFO]

He's not talking about handguns. He's referring to Title 1 firearms. Short barreled rifles/shotguns, automatic weapons and other "destructive devices".

Handguns are title 1 firearms. NFA items are title 2.

 

[Nwcid]

Yes I have fill out a 4473 and a Record of transfer neither are registration. Yes I will agree that there is a record of me when I purchase it from an FFL but that is ALL it is, a record of sale.

I can sell the gun at ANY time without doing paperwork. Can you do that with your car which IS registered?

The real easy test to see if it is registered or not. Can the state of WA know for sure who owns a the gun by running the serial number. Of course the answer is NO so they are not registered. The state CAN find out the last (or any) person that purchased it though an FFL. Can the ATF know for sure who owns and NFA item by running the the serial number. You know they can because NFA items are registered.

Now can the state find out for sure who owns the car you are driving. Of course the answer is Yes because cars are registered.

 

[Nwcid]

Again there is NO Federal or WA registration on ANY Title 1 firearm. Please show me where this happens. I know I NEVER have had any registered. I do have NFA items that are registered.

Since you fill out a Washington State form for purchase of a handgun that goes in state and local records and no one has shown that those records are ever closed your handgun would be registered at the state and possibly the local level. The state and people claim that there is no handgun registration in Washington as it is not required for private party transactions, only a transaction thru an ffl dealer. My opinion, a handgun purchase thru an ffl in Washington is registered with the state. Purchase private party no.

The difference between registration and record of sale is that with registration you can not do anything with that item without filling out paperwork. So I buy a handgun from a FFL and later decide to sell it I am free to do it at anytime. IF it were registered I would have to fill out paperwork sell it. I would have to carry the registration paperwork with me to prove it is mine. In the case of NFA items I can not even loan it to anyone with becoming a felon. Does that sound like what we have in WA? There could be 100 people owning a single gun in WA and the only one on record would be the initial buyer, does not sound very registered to me. IF the cops came knocking at your door for some reason about a gun all you have to do is say you sold it.

The original post did mention state registration of pistols. Aren't short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns, full auto weapons registered federally and mostly illegal in WA anyway?

Also not true. There are 6 types of NFA items, SBR, SBS, AOW, DD, MG, and silencers. Currently AOW, DD and silencers are legal in WA and there is a big push to get SBR and SBS legal as well. All of these items are REGISTERED with the ATF and no one else. To buy one you have to fill out http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf which is "Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of Firearm". If you fill out your Form 4 as an individual you will also have to get a local LEO to sign off on it, you include 2 passport photos and your finger prints. This is for EACH form not a one time deal. After you have paid your tax and been blessed which takes about 6 months you can have your REGISTERED item. Once you have it you have to have keep proof it is registered to you. Unless your buddy is right there with you he can not borrow your item or you would both be committing felony's. Then if someday you decide to sell it the new buyer has to fill out the Form 4, pay the $200 tax, wait the 6 month......

 

[TCOV]

Well Nwcid I guess we are differiing on what we call registering a handgun. You say that because a record of transfer is not required for all transactions therefor there is no registration. I say that because the state keeps records of my transaction thru an ffl for a handgun that they have registered it to me. The fact that their records don't change with later transactions thru private party doesn't change the fact that if there is a trace on that weapon within the state they will come to me first as the owner of record. I call that registration. My opinion.

 

[runsfromdacops]

i thought that the barrel minimum was 14.7" ?or the oal of 26" am i off base here?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I've bought many handguns in WA and never filled out anything but a 4473