What's the minimum amount of ammunition a person should have?

[DuneHopper]

I try and use some sort of logic, I can make my lunch at home for a week and maybe spend 10 or I can eat out each day and spend 60 or 70 a week. In a month that like over 300.00 by making lunch I can easily buy a case or two a month and really not affect my budget. I have this discussion with a friend of mine last Obummer scare he didn't have allot of cash but wanted some ammo. I asked what do you have you could go without. He has internet and cable and really doesnt watch TV. I said dump the cable and spend that on ammo.
I figure if those who smoke would cut back or all together they could have a armory of ammo in a few years. Some are on a pack or two a day dang that like 10 a day 300 a month .

 

[erudne]

I've dropped all unessential expenses,no cable, no trash PU, no subscriptions, no smoking, very little booze, my phone bill is under $30 a month and utilities are under $100 so I am spending about $2.5 K less a year than I was 4 years ago

 

[The Heretic]

I approach buying ammo as most people would approach a savings account. How much money should you save? Well as much as you possibly can plus a little. The only thing is just like saving money, the more you have the more you feel like its not enough.

Some people feel that way about money, but I will have "enough" saved when I can retire and do the things I want to do without touching the principal.

That would be somewhere between $500K and one million in total net worth (including equity in real estate) and no debt (including no mortgage). In today's world, that actually isn't that much. But then I have lived frugally most of my life.

For the past several decades I have valued time over money. The closer I get to retirement, the more I have saved, the more I value the time I have left on earth, and the less I want to save more.

 

[DuneHopper]

I've dropped all unessential expenses,no cable, no trash PU, no subscriptions, no smoking, very little booze, my phone bill is under $30 a month and utilities are under $100 so I am spending about $2.5 K less a year than I was 4 years ago

Sweet ................!

 

[SHPD_Retired]

I think you need at least 1000 rounds per gun, not per caliber, and some extra magazines to go with them.

 

[66PonyCar]

If I buy too much then my heirs will certainly make a small fortune. I just don't see the price coming down during my lifetime.

 

[Medic!]

I think you need at least 1000 rounds per gun, not per caliber, and some extra magazines to go with them.

Depends on how many guns you own.
There is a limit to how much weight the foundation will take.

 

[IronMonster]

Some people feel that way about money, but I will have "enough" saved when I can retire and do the things I want to do without touching the principal.

That would be somewhere between $500K and one million in total net worth (including equity in real estate) and no debt (including no mortgage). In today's world, that actually isn't that much. But then I have lived frugally most of my life.

For the past several decades I have valued time over money. The closer I get to retirement, the more I have saved, the more I value the time I have left on earth, and the less I want to save more.

Well I hate to break it to you, but your enough is not enough most likely.

So lets make a few assumptions (I am sure a few will be wrong, but for the general population they are not far off)

You say including equity in real estate. Lets assume you have a $250K home and property and you managed to save $750K. The top end million bucks of your example.

Currently if you put your money in a "safe" investment like a 5 CD you will get $60K roughly, (2%) Course those are capital gains so you have to pay $9000 to the FED's. That leaves you $51K

You live in Oregon, They are going to want there cut. There goes another $3000

That leaves you $48K

Average health insurance cost for a 60 year old is $951 per month, assume you have a significant other that is $22,824

Down to $25,176

Assume you pay 1% property tax...

Down to $22,500 roughly.

Average utility costs $2500 a year

Down to $20K

Average home maintenance costs

Averaged over 10 years, $4000 a year

Down to
$16K

Average costs to own and drive a car per year

$9122 per year

Down to

$6878 bucks.

Average cost to feed a family of 2?

$300-$700 a month. Lets assume $300 as the base. $3600

leaves $3200

So even if we stop there that lives you $260 a month to really live on, Less than $70 a week

Granted those are all averages I pulled from Google, You could surly live cheaper than that (as an average states, half of everyone does. However it costs the other half more)

My point is that if you really look at it, I bet you would likely like to add a bit more to even your highest figure when it comes right down too it.

When you get to that million bucks, You should probably still save everything you can.

 

[IronMonster]

My thought as always been.

There is no such thing as too many tools,

However there is a very real thing called too small of shop.

 

[Just Jim]

I reload my ammo so I don't stock pile a bunch of loaded ammo. I remember watching our troops find bunkers full of ammo when we went to Afghanistan and thought Geez somebody worked hard to put all that there. Then I thought there isn't much reason to ever have on hand any more than you can carry with your gear because most of it you will leave behind.

If I was going to stockpile I would spread it around in the homes of friends or family. Just don't see the sense in big piles of ammo but do like having some components in case I need more than what little I have loaded.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Not sharing numbers about my ammo but I have enough that I won't be caught short or gouged! In the period of the last panic, any panics actually, I was comfortably well stocked with everything I needed, some bought 20-25 years ago! I store it properly and it's still perfectly fine. Having a good supply allows me to buy on sale to add stock and replace what I shoot in the least expensive way. If I can't replace what I burn, absolutely no problem!

PS: During shortages we have a lot of threads about hoarders and how despicable they are! Well some are. On the other hand I purchased my "hoard" in times of plenty and I'm not competing for a limited resource with those less fortunate!

 

[Sgt Nambu]

I reload my ammo so I don't stock pile a bunch of loaded ammo. I remember watching our troops find bunkers full of ammo when we went to Afghanistan and thought Geez somebody worked hard to put all that there. Then I thought there isn't much reason to ever have on hand any more than you can carry with your gear because most of it you will leave behind.

If I was going to stockpile I would spread it around in the homes of friends or family. Just don't see the sense in big piles of ammo but do like having some components in case I need more than what little I have loaded.

But, but, but, Jim! I like to run my fingers through it and rub it against my cheeks! Oh! The tinkle of the brass, the smell of old boxes! WooHoo!

 

[Khalsa]

Depends on how many guns you own.
There is a limit to how much weight the foundation will take.

Glocks are said to be able to take plenty

 

[Just Jim]

But, but, but, Jim! I like to run my fingers through it and rub it against my cheeks! Oh! The tinkle of the brass, the smell of old boxes! WooHoo!

to me it's like having cash, I am going to spend it or in the case of ammo shoot it up. Just have no resistence.

 

[The Heretic]

Well I hate to break it to you, but your enough is not enough most likely.

So lets make a few assumptions (I am sure a few will be wrong, but for the general population they are not far off)

Without getting into these assumptions for the gen pop to see if they are correct or not - they are not correct for me - not even for my current expenses.

First, I am single.

Second, long term capital gains fed tax is ten percent - not 15% - also, it is only taxble when I pull the money out of the 401k or IRA, not before. As long as the money stays in the fund I don't pay tax on it. I don't have to pull money out until I am 70.5 years old, and then only a minimum amount (at this point, that min. is calculated to be less than $20K per year)

Third, I am 61, and I could go on SSI next year if I wanted, but unless forced to ( I will wait until my full retirement age (66) and then I will get around $20K to $25K per year in SSI benefits. If that is all I have in income, then none of that will be taxable (by the feds at least) - if I have more income, then between 50% and 85% is taxable depending on my combined income.

My current property taxes are $4K per year, another 800 for insurance, a couple of $K for property maintenance at most. So far, what I have spent money on for my property has been improvements - on paper, in the three years I have owned this property, it has increased in value about $100K.

When I retire, if things go according to plan, I intend to sell this property and use equity and cash liquid savings (not my 401K or IRA) to buy acreage and build a more self-sufficient house and property. If I am careful and the real estate market doesn't crash before then, I am hoping that I won't have a mortgage.

Without my current mortgage, my current living expenses are about $1K per month. My current health insurance costs me about $100 per month, my employer about another $460 per month. At 65 I qualify for medicare, but let's assume that I will also need private health insurance at a total of about $500 per month (if I go through the Oregon state plans it is likely to be less).

So, $1500 per month, or about $18K per year, if I do nothing but sit at home.

I don't include the cost of driving around. If I don't have a job, I don't need to commute. I would come into town once or twice a month - costing me about $10 per trip at today's fuel prices. Insurance is about $60 per month and is included in my living expenses about. I've done this before - I've been unemployed for long time periods, and during those times my transportation expenses were at most $100 per month.

Even today, with a round trip commute of 60 miles per day, 5 days a week, including the cost of my car (a 2004 BMW), the cost per year is about half what you quoted.

So the assumptions and numbers are off.

I have yearly budgets planned out and I know what I spend every year on every category. The big wildcard is healthcare costs - which I know from experience (having an elderly mother in a care facility, who has had several strokes, open heart surgery and so on) that these can skyrocket and eat up savings big time. I am at significant risk for stroke, cancer, heart disease, Alzheimer's and Parkinsons, not to mention my current problems with back injuries and other minor issues that can become major as I get older.

As long as I can live at home - and I plan to as long as possible - I think I will be fine until such time as I have serious health issue.

Basic living expenses I think can be covered by SSI benefits - if I don't have a mortgage. When I get to 70.5 years of age, then I need to start pulling funds out of 401k/IRA, but until that time, I am not taxed on any of it that I leave in there.

I will probably pull some out to pay for overseas travel while I am still healthy enough to travel (maybe from about 65 to 75 - my life expectancy is somewhere between 80 and 85 given family history). I hope to keep the base principal in my retirement funds untouched such that my child can use it.

Would I want to save more than one million? Maybe. But given my health risks, I don't think I would live to spend it. I want those short ten years of relative health to do a few things while I can still enjoy them, before I am restricted to limited mobility.

That was my point - money is less of an issue than time. If I could retire tomorrow and not worry about running out of money, I would. Hell, I would have retired several decades ago if I could.

YMMV

 

[Just Jim]

One of my friends pointed out in a gun fight it probably won't go 20 rounds. So the only real need for ammo is training or trade goods.

 

[The Heretic]

One of my friends pointed out in a gun fight it probably won't go 20 rounds. So the only real need for ammo is training or trade goods.

SHTF scenarios may not be the same as a street self-defense encounter today while there is still rule of law.

If you are defending your home, and your home has substantial walls which can stop small arms fire, then I could see encounters going hundreds, even thousands of rounds.

That said, one can never have too much ammo for training or barter. Most of my "mass quantities" of ammo are FMJ ammo bought for training or barter, not primarily for self-defense, although in a pinch I would rather have the FMJ than no ammo at all - it can still be plenty lethal, I just prefer expanding ammo.

 

[Just Jim]

SHTF scenarios may not be the same as a street self-defense encounter today while there is still rule of law.

If you are defending your home, and your home has substantial walls which can stop small arms fire, then I could see encounters going hundreds, even thousands of rounds.

That said, one can never have too much ammo for training or barter. Most of my "mass quantities" of ammo are FMJ ammo bought for training or barter, not primarily for self-defense, although in a pinch I would rather have the FMJ than no ammo at all - it can still be plenty lethal, I just prefer expanding ammo.

Well I look back and try to see where any gunfight has gone thousands of rounds and the only one in recent memory was Waco. Useing that as worst case I think fire protection would make for good money spent.

Just my opinion and it ain't worth 2 cents but if you stockpile ammo it's going to be ammo stocked for the next guy because a gunfight probably won't last long.

Look at the LA bank robbers,body armour and full autos with a car load of ammo yet the ammo didn't keep them alive and they went down with a car full of it.

 

[erudne]

except through short guns ive never been disappointed using ball

 

[DuneHopper]

Well I look back and try to see where any gunfight has gone thousands of rounds and the only one in recent memory was Waco. Useing that as worst case I think fire protection would make for good money spent.

Just my opinion and it ain't worth 2 cents but if you stockpile ammo it's going to be ammo stocked for the next guy because a gunfight probably won't last long.

Look at the LA bank robbers,body armour and full autos with a car load of ammo yet the ammo didn't keep them alive and they went down with a car full of it.

Very good points