Whatch gonna do when they come for you?

[Gunner3456]

Actually there were more instances than that. Google "Captain Jack" or "Modoc Indian War"

Actually, the Modocs did very well over a fairly long period of time, but they had fewer than 100 men and the army had 1,000. I don't consider a small band of rebels even rebelling against their own people a guerrilla army. The hardcore group that stuck to it was fewer than 50 Indians, and eventually more than half of them turned traitor and led the US army to the small remainder band of Indians.

At the end, at least 1/2 of the 40-odd remaining Modocs deserted and it was all but over. The Army hanged Captain Jack after the traitors led the army to him.

However, the very small band of Indians managed to kill more whites than they themselves lost. Captain Jack could never get full support of the Indians but he did amazingly well. Had more of the Indians in the area supported the effort, they probably would have won.

 

[saabin]

They know that for the most part gun owners are law abiding citizens and they will use that against us. There will likely be no full on round up or repeal of the second amendment. What they will do is regulate certain types of guns and put high tariffs on the privilege of owning others. The second amendment guarantees we can own a firearm it does not guarantee we can afford to buy one. If you are one of the wealthy who can afford the to pay the for the privilege, good for you. Caught with a gun and haven't paid the "tax stamp" or class whatever license fees, then congratulations your a felon. Unfortunately most gun owners will simply roll over and forfeit or sell off what they cant afford to properly license. The average gun owner will have a single shot muzzle loader (or worse) and anything other that will be a rich mans plaything, like legal FA weapons are now.

 

[baada]

By the time they get around to rounding up all the guns will they still be able to pay the goons? Way things are going, I'm thinking we'll have to worry more about roving bands of the "have nots" after a major collapse then a dying system grabbing for power.

How do you think they will justify the martial law necessary to confiscate firearms? Social disorder engineered to occur after a major economic collapse. The socialists know that even though they have eroded the will of the majority, too bold of a move on their part will only unify a resistance. The only way to justifiably reorganize the Federal system is to engineer a massive catastrophe. Since nature has so far been unwilling to blow the Yellowstone caldera, it will be up to the socialists to make something really bad happen. Surely Ben Bernanke and company aren't so stupid to actually believe the crap they say. Gold isn't money, and is only held by central banks out of "tradition"?! C'mon.

I served and I know we have nothing to worry about. The United States military makes up less than 1% of the people in the US.

And the number of US servicemembers in Afghanistan is 0.33% of its population. What's your point? Remember, the number of actual resistors will be a very small fraction of the population. VERY small. Not only that, but if martial law is declared nationally due to massive social disorder, as I suspect it will, what's to stop the Feds from calling in UN peacekeepers? And if the UN approves the "Small Arms Treaty" that's currently proposed, I'm sure they'll be more than happy to help relieve us of our guns.

It's not as preposterous as some like to imagine.

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

Well, also remember that we have had a Supreme Court decision that says a handgun is the quintessential weapon for personal defense, and that personal defense is a "fundamental human right."

While I do realize that martial law trumps (at least in some instances has trumped) the Constitution, I suspect that it will never happen... Too many issues.

 

[HollisOR]

They know that for the most part gun owners are law abiding citizens and they will use that against us. There will likely be no full on round up or repeal of the second amendment. What they will do is regulate certain types of guns and put high tariffs on the privilege of owning others. The second amendment guarantees we can own a firearm it does not guarantee we can afford to buy one. If you are one of the wealthy who can afford the to pay the for the privilege, good for you. Caught with a gun and haven't paid the "tax stamp" or class whatever license fees, then congratulations your a felon. Unfortunately most gun owners will simply roll over and forfeit or sell off what they cant afford to properly license. The average gun owner will have a single shot muzzle loader (or worse) and anything other that will be a rich mans plaything, like legal FA weapons are now.

That is my thoughts of what is more likely to happen if it does. One of the major reasons for the firearm community needs to be united, vigilant and politically active to counter any political move to in act those type of measures. Our weakness as a community is that we are a mix bag of gun nuts. The good news is that the anti-gun people are a mix bag too.

 

[elsullo]

If there really ARE any gummint conspirators planning mass confiscations they will not be stupid enough to ignore the "Old Phart Factor." There are plenty of us old guys quite ready to go out in a blaze of glory, so to speak, and we will make a LOT of noise and smoke if any government messes with us. Thousands of big shootouts across the nation? I just don't see it coming. We have nothing to look forward to anyway except deepening poverty and more aches and pains and bad teeth, so this will be a factor to give them pause in any plan. Sure, by posting this I must be down on another list somewhere, but I just don't see that it matters. Nobody is coming for me.............................elsullo

 

[Old Wanderer]

Yes we do have that Supreme Court decision, but with the shifting of a few justices we might have one like:

Korematsu v. United States, 323 U.S. 214 (1944)[1], was a landmark United States Supreme Court case concerning the constitutionality of Executive Order 9066, which ordered Japanese Americans into internment camps during World War II.

In a 6-3 decision, the Court sided with the government,[2] ruling that the exclusion order was constitutional. The opinion, written by Supreme Court justice Hugo Black, held that the need to protect against espionage outweighed Fred Korematsu's individual rights, and the rights of Americans of Japanese descent.

 

[Scotcopsusa]

I served and I know we have nothing to worry about. The United States military makes up less than 1% of the people in the US. There is not enough LE to go house to house. I don't think LE has the intelligence to pull this off so most people are better qualified at using firearms anyways.

So don't worry the military would not do it and LE is not qualified to do it and if they tried they would be idiots.

They would have to go to court as well to execute this and it would be shot down and we outgun LE by 10 to one. I bet most large city LE only have their crappy butt Glocks because they don't know how to use other guns.

So... I take it I am the only college educated, non Glock owning LEO on the boards? Because it sounds to me like someone thinks all law enforcement people in this country are inept, uneducated, knuckle dragging morons, who can't shoot for crap and follow the orders of the liberal idiots in DC without question...

For the record - as a vet and LEO - not only am I NOT giving up my guns to my government if they are ever stupid enough to try and take them from me, I'm not disarming any of my law abiding neighbors who are standing by their Constitutional right to bear arms either. And I can tell you for a fact I am not the only LEO who thinks this way...

 

[Trlsmn]

Actually there were more instances than that. Google "Captain Jack" or "Modoc Indian War"

I've hiked Capt. Jack's stronghold.

 

[MA Duce]

I've hiked Capt. Jack's stronghold.

I have as well. One of my ancestors, AB Meacham, was at the meeting where General Canby and another man was killed, and AB Meacham was shot, half scalped and left for dead when the Modocs were told the Army was coming. Meacham was one of the first Indian Commissioners in the Oregon Territory, and offered to serve as defense council for those accused in the massacre, including Captain Jack, because he felt they had been sorely treated by the Army and in a way forced into their rebellion. The town of Meacham in northeastern Oregon was founded by AB and his brother as a trading post during the gold rush days in that country.

 

[drew]

However, the very small band of Indians managed to kill more whites than they themselves lost. Captain Jack could never get full support of the Indians but he did amazingly well. Had more of the Indians in the area supported the effort, they probably would have won.

They managed to kill General Canby who I believe was the only general killed during the Indian Wars (Custer was not a general when he died). I'd call that successful. It also provides an enduring lesson: Don't go to a peace negotiation unarmed.

I've hiked Capt. Jack's stronghold.

I always found the hike enjoyable especially when you consider you are hiking through/around a primitive fortress. That and the weather was always conducive to a nice hike.

 

[JGRuby]

It is my understanding based on what I have heard friom my wife and her family that they never did actually find Captain Jacks stronghold - as I understand it there are alot of guns and money somewhere out there in the lava beds. My wife grew up in Burney, Ca. - her immediate family lives there now. After hunting the lava beds and destroying a pair of boots or two I find it amazing that the inidans moccasins held up as well as they did. My father in law thought it was funny to take me out thier in the fields the first time - he still gets a kick out of that. He wanted to show me how real men hunt. We did see deer.

James Ruby

 

[MA Duce]

They managed to kill General Canby who I believe was the only general killed during the Indian Wars (Custer was not a general when he died). I'd call that successful. It also provides an enduring lesson: Don't go to a peace negotiation unarmed.

Interesting you say that. The fact that they went unarmed was at the insistence of Canby. Meacham knew showing up weak would be an invitation to an attack. He carried a derringer in his vest pocket. He left this note with an Army officer, knowing in his heart he was going into an ambush.

My dear wife–

You may be a widow tonight but you shall not be a coward's wife. I go to save my honor. John E. Fairchild will forward my valise and valuables. The chances are all against us. I have done my best to prevent this meeting. I am in no wise to blame.
Yours to the end, Alfred.

P.S. I give Fairchild six hundred and fifty dollars, currency, for you. A.B.M.

You had to be tough to live in the Old West.

 

[Trlsmn]

So... I take it I am the only college educated, non Glock owning LEO on the boards? Because it sounds to me like someone thinks all law enforcement people in this country are inept, uneducated, knuckle dragging morons, who can't shoot for crap and follow the orders of the liberal idiots in DC without question...

For the record - as a vet and LEO - not only am I NOT giving up my guns to my government if they are ever stupid enough to try and take them from me, I'm not disarming any of my law abiding neighbors who are standing by their Constitutional right to bear arms either. And I can tell you for a fact I am not the only LEO who thinks this way...

Ah but the real question is will you cross the blue line against "law enforcements inept, ignorant, knuckle dragging (thugs) and morons" breaking the rules/violating peoples rights? Or will you cover for them?

I'm not a cop basher so I'm not asking this from that perspective, I question every incident on it's own merits.

 

[Gunner3456]

Ah but the real question is will you cross the blue line against "law enforcements inept, ignorant, knuckle dragging (thugs) and morons" breaking the rules/violating peoples rights? Or will you cover for them?

I'm not a cop basher so I'm not asking this from that perspective, I question every incident on it's own merits.

I'm a cop basher of the first order. A year ago I wasn't, but I changed my mind from experience.

I believe there are individual cops who are OK, but I believe they are in the minority. I also don't know how they'd act if they were forced to choose between their buddies doing wrong, or individually doing the right thing.

I don't trust them and I have the scars to entitle me to that opinion. I'm kicking a couple of their asses in court as we speak.

If the SHTF, they'd better stay off my property. I see them as the enemy, not my protector.

 

[The B]

I see them as the enemy, not my protector.

unfortunately, it's come down to this. their function has long since gone from "protector" to instruments of social control. since i don't need to be controlled, i take great offense at their very existence.

and like you, a year ago i did not have this strong of an opinion... but i was certainly on my way. i'm now quite certain and vocal about it.

the existence of a full-time, militarized, and pro-active police force utterly voids any pretense of a "free society." period.

 

[Gunner3456]

unfortunately, it's come down to this. their function has long since gone from "protector" to instruments of social control. since i don't need to be controlled, i take great offense at their very existence.

and like you, a year ago i did not have this strong of an opinion... but i was certainly on my way. i'm now quite certain and vocal about it.

the existence of a full-time, militarized, and pro-active police force utterly voids any pretense of a "free society." period.

Well, maybe about a year ago I was one of the #1 defenders of the police in an action they took near here. Most here disagreed with me.

If that same subject came up today, my knee-jerk would be to hate what the police did.

 

[Burt Gummer]

The 2nd isn't there for people to have a gun for personal defense. It was written in because it is a lot more difficult for government tyranny to take hold with an armed populace. Our founding fathers were keenly aware that the most dangerous enemy this country ever had, and still has, are the money masters. The international bankers and their central banking schemes. Far more dangerous than any standing army ever could be. They knew that while we 'won our independence' that the Bank of England transplanted their courts, law, and worst of all banking systems here. Their soldiers were here 21 years after we were we supposedly 'free' in order to do just that.

Since these parasitic bankers have had many decades to decay, deceive and destroy the country from within they now own and run it all. When they play out their endgame of wiping away our fiat Ponzi economy in the greatest wealth grab in human history, our guns will be turned on each other, vs them. They are now all powerful and untouchable. Thomas Jefferson would need a barf bag if he saw what this country has become. A banker's paradise with a population of easily controlled drones.

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs."
- Thomas Jefferson

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

The bottom line for me: Until the supposedly good ones quit covering for the murdering scumbags in their ranks - I have to look at them all the same. No more trust or respect from this direction.

 

[RB87]

A bit OT but cop loses it with guy who has CCW in Ohio:

‪Dash Cam: Canton PD "Notification" Arrest & Officer Goes Berserk / Threatens‬‏ - YouTube

via
Of Arms and the Law: Pretty shocking video