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tac

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ALL European loading data is in metric, as are ALL European bullet weights printed on the packaging - those are the RULES of the CIP. However, packaging MAY also have bullet weight and velocity in imperial measurements as well.

If the nation that manufactures the powder gives data, then is WILL be metric - that is, after all, their standard of measurement.
 
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Get a good set of Lee dippers.
Careful though, they're calibrated in cc's.

lorl
The Lee Dippers come with conversion chart for different types (Densities) of powder from CCs to Grains. It is just to get me close then I use a trickler to reach my target weight in Grains.
 
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I'm just starting to get worried about a guy, new to reloading, who is writing about loads of almost 190gr....

I'm getting a spidey feeling here, guys..................................................
12.7mm x 99 (50 cal) Benchmark?

Those Europeans and their backwards metric system.
 

tac

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12.7mm x 99 (50 cal) Benchmark?

Those Europeans and their backwards metric system.
I apologise in advance for seeming to be obtuse, but I don't understand your comment.

NATO military .50cal ammunition IS called 12.7x99 - it's printed on the containers that I recall so well. Civilian .50cal ammunition might be made, but, as far as I am aware, not by any maker in Europe. Over here we either buy surplus or make our own from components, same as with any other handloaded ammunition.
 
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I apologise in advance for seeming to be obtuse, but I don't understand your comment.

NATO military .50cal ammunition IS called 12.7x99 - it's printed on the containers that I recall so well. Civilian .50cal ammunition might be made, but, as far as I am aware, not by any maker in Europe. Over here we either buy surplus or make our own from components, same as with any other handloaded ammunition.
Sorry, my attempt at humor. Benchmark is low recoil powder used in cowboy action shooting where low recoil is desirable. It takes up a lot of case volume.
 

ddjchemist

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Get a scale that measures in grains if you are using American load recipes.
Don't introduce an element (grams scale) that could cause a mistake.
Do not worry. I am a scientist and my brain is trained on metric system and I do unit conversions for living. Since I will be using Excel for all my calculations and loading data record, it is not a big deal to convert to from grains to grams and back.
 

ddjchemist

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Now, I got a ammo loading question if some of you could give me an advice. I just purchased old Tikka 658 in 30-06 I with the rifle I got about 500 rounds of ammo. 350 rounds are factory loads (Federal and Remington) and 150 rounds are reloads. The owner of the rifle told me that these reloads were developed for this Tikka rifle (22in barrel 1:10 twist). I took careful measurements of few randomly chosen cartridges, and these reloads are very accurate when it comes to neck size (they are all .332), length and total weight. They are super nicely organized, clean and they look very well made. However, I have zero practical experience with re-loading. These reloads were using Remington 165 gr Core-Lokt bullets and Winchester 748 powder. They are charged 53.5 grains. I am concerned that 53.5 might be a little bit too hot. I spent a couple of hours searching reloading data for Winchester 748 powder, and I could not find anything that would tell me minimum/maximum charge for this powder in combination with 165 gr bullets similar to Rem core-lokt in 30-06 cartridges. I only could find Winchester 748 powder loading data for lighter bullets (up to 150 gr), but nothing for 165 gr. Thus, I better ask some of you who are re-loading experts before I shoot these cartridges.
 

gmerkt

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In contemporary data, 748 isn't normally recommended for bullets heavier than 150 in .30-06. I've gone back in some of my old Winchester (Olin) load pamphlets (1973, 1989), and they don't give 748 data for the 165 gr. bullet. They do give some for 180 gr. The load recommended for 150 gr. bullet is 48.0 gr. of 748, so I agree that 53.5 for a 165 gr. bullet is hot. Don't assume that because the ammo is cosmetically sound, well organized, the word of the owner, etc., is all that relevant. What's important here is the charge weight and you yourself as being in learning mode have already brought that into question. Which is a "good for you."

One of the golden threads that weaves its way through posts in this forum about reloaded ammo is, "Don't shoot somebody else's reloads." We could add a corollary to that and say, "Don't be tempted to do it." Once you get further advanced, pull them down and rework the components. You just can't trust everyone else to be on the beam. Some of the most confident-sounding people in the world have turned out to be complete buffoons.

Since Winchester had recommendations for both 150 and 180 gr. bullets for .30-06 at one time, what a more advanced reloader might do is find an average of their 150 and 180 gr. loads, and that might be a working point for 165. Which is exactly between 150 and 180 in weight. I will allow that the number is about 46.5 grains. One thing about ball powders, they are not versatile in the way that some extruded (stick) powders are.

You can find some data in certain older reloading manuals (not Winchester/Olin) that show higher loadings, but I've read that the ones I'm thinking of, not all recommendations were pressure tested. Also, measuring pressure has become a more accurate science since some of the earlier books were printed. I'd go with contemporary recommendations. The reasons for lower modern loads than some previously recommended can't always be traced to the lawyers.

see below

I wonder if the rest of the reloading world are forced to use imperial units?
Europe uses metric, it's the law there. One way to avoid the work-around would be to use European powder. Someone else suggested Lovex. Nobel Sport Vectan (France) and Vihtavuori (Finland) sell powder here and their loading publications give grams and grains. Even in the best of times, some of those powders aren't the easiest to find. With respect, OP give up the scientific stubborn streak and adopt grains. It will make it so much easier for you; everything in the US that you will see in reference uses this measurement.

Look into digital scales instead.
Yes, you can get a small, cheap but accurate digital scale for about $20.

If you live in the US of A, you'd have to be crazy to do your reloading in anything except grains.* After all, you weigh stuff in pounds, and grains are 1/7000th of a pound - and 1/10 of a grain is about the weight of the ink in a printed full-stop. How exact do you want to be?
This. You start in using a scale with .0000, you're only adding more digits to drive you crazy in the pursuit for perfection. I used a beam scale for decades, never had a problem. Then I bought a small, inexpensive digital scale and suddenly I was obsessing with the heightened awareness of accuracy (in powder weight, not on target). To a more visual degree that the digital scale would show. It was perception more than reality. To no practical effect in shooting accuracy or performance of the product. Someone else said it above, shooter technique is way more of a factor than a difference to .0000.
 

tac

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'With respect, OP give up the scientific stubborn streak and adopt grains. It will make it so much easier for you; everything in the US that you will see in reference uses this measurement.'

As many of us have already recommended. After all, unless you have veteran European import car of historical worth, you don't have a speedo that reads in kph, right?

Even in metric Canada we use grains for reloading, just like MOST reloading data handbooks do.

And ditch the micro-measuring - you'll only lie awake nights wondering about a weight so small that only a person with extreme OCD would give it any concern.
 

tac

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Do not worry. I am a scientist and my brain is trained on metric system and I do unit conversions for living. Since I will be using Excel for all my calculations and loading data record, it is not a big deal to convert to from grains to grams and back.
I'm not worried, in fact, I'm beginning to care less with every post I read, however I totally fail to comprehend why you feel the need to do calculations at all -

Bullets made in the USA - weight in grains - not grams.

All powder made in the USA - weighed in grains - not grams.

We measure velocity in feet per second and muzzle energy in foot-pounds, not mps and Joules.

We measure the rate of twist in one turn in so many inches, not cms.

We measure pressure in psi, not kpa.

And unless you shoot on a military range, all distances are in feet or yards

All US-produced loading data handbooks - printed with tables in imperial measurements, and since we are being parochial, somewhat, make that MOST loading data handbooks in the world.

I live most of the time in UK, allegedly a metricated nation. Is it hell. The only thing we live with here that IS metric is the money - like yours, it's decimal

Still, it looks like nothing that any of us can write will put you off your chosen path - it's just that you are marching to a 'different drummer' than the rest of us.
 
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Now, I got a ammo loading question if some of you could give me an advice. I just purchased old Tikka 658 in 30-06 I with the rifle I got about 500 rounds of ammo. 350 rounds are factory loads (Federal and Remington) and 150 rounds are reloads. The owner of the rifle told me that these reloads were developed for this Tikka rifle (22in barrel 1:10 twist). I took careful measurements of few randomly chosen cartridges, and these reloads are very accurate when it comes to neck size (they are all .332), length and total weight. They are super nicely organized, clean and they look very well made. However, I have zero practical experience with re-loading. These reloads were using Remington 165 gr Core-Lokt bullets and Winchester 748 powder. They are charged 53.5 grains. I am concerned that 53.5 might be a little bit too hot. I spent a couple of hours searching reloading data for Winchester 748 powder, and I could not find anything that would tell me minimum/maximum charge for this powder in combination with 165 gr bullets similar to Rem core-lokt in 30-06 cartridges. I only could find Winchester 748 powder loading data for lighter bullets (up to 150 gr), but nothing for 165 gr. Thus, I better ask some of you who are re-loading experts before I shoot these cartridges.
It is not wise to use someone else's reloads unless you know and trust them beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Period. (giant one)

Get a bullet puller, then disassemble and use the bullets and brass in your reloads.
I like the RCBS collet style.
 

tac

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Hodgdon Manual.

1621080189870.png

Your OVERloaded ammunition is likely to destroy your rifle, and probably injure you in the process.
 
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It is not wise to use someone else's reloads unless you know and trust them beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Period. (giant one)

Get a bullet puller, then disassemble and use the bullets and brass in your reloads.
I like the RCBS collet style.

Never shoot anyone else's reloads.

Note, that even if they were perfectly safe when reloaded. They may have been hot loads or not. Regardless now the necks maybe age bonded to the bullets creating a dangerous pressure situation especially if they were hot.

So. Never shoot anyone else's reloads.

I would be tempted to do this. Take them all apart with a collet puller.

Use the powder to build a ladder test at the same seating depth. Starting below the 46 grains recommended start for the 165's, then go up .3 grains to get a ladder test between 45-48 grains inclusive. That is starting below the range Tac just posted

If all goes well, no signs of pressure. Then load another ladder more increasing by .1 on either side of the most accurate weight
Make a critical examination of each cartridge fired and only shoot thru a cold barrel.. At the first sign of pressure stop.

I use different ways to cool my barrels. While I wait I shoot other rifles or pistol. I use a Barbecue laser thermometer to get my barrels temperature.

Good luck, stay safe, and enjoy the heck out of your new rifle.

Edited to reflect what Tac found and posted, and add

When loading make sure your COAL isn't putting the bullet into the lands. If the bolt cloes hard eject the cartridge remeasure COAL and bump the ladder test back to less than the COAL you just measured.
 
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