What we want is what you got

[Spray-n-pray]

I think one of the issues that needs to be addressed as I read some of the posts is that holing up in one location, standing your ground, etc. is a very bad idea from an operational standpoint. .....unless you are in some kind of concrete bomb shelter. To survive you need to constantly be on the move and quick to adapt to ever-changing forces and tactics. In an offensive situation, if you have the opportunity to eliminate a threat at long range, as soon as you make the shot you're going to be targeted from that moment forward. If you have a spotter that can make effective hits from that distance you may be able to maintain your position for a while, but not indefinitely. Holding your ground mentality is a good way to get yourself killed.

Possibly, but trying to remain mobile with small children isn't really feasible either. If you're on your own, or with other able-bodied adults, then staying on the move might work for you. I don't see a scenario where bugging out with my wife and eighteen month old son has a happy ending. Probably best for us to hunker down and fortify as best we can.

 

[U201491]

I think one of the issues that needs to be addressed as I read some of the posts is that holing up in one location, standing your ground, etc. is a very bad idea from an operational standpoint. .....unless you are in some kind of concrete bomb shelter. To survive you need to constantly be on the move and quick to adapt to ever-changing forces and tactics. In an offensive situation, if you have the opportunity to eliminate a threat at long range, as soon as you make the shot you're going to be targeted from that moment forward. If you have a spotter that can make effective hits from that distance you may be able to maintain your position for a while, but not indefinitely. Holding your ground mentality is a good way to get yourself killed.

There will be 2 scenarios.
Marauding gangs are the least of the final concern. They will, with help devour themselves.
Simon99 is 100% on with that.
Coordinated hit and run from a hundred directions is very psychologically demoralizing also.
VC knew that one well and used it every chance they could. But they had an unbelievable tunnel network. Some of that is also used in Afghanistan also from what I hear from people that have been there. We don't have that here and with the technology that is there will make it tough to evade. Sitting in one spot will be fatal, regardless of fortification.
Hiding a heat signature is the one obstacle that is close to impossible also. Unless everything around you is ambient at 98.6 you look like a beacon light no matter what you do.

 

[U201491]

Possibly, but trying to remain mobile with small children isn't really feasible either. If you're on your own, or with other able-bodied adults, then staying on the move might work for you. I don't see a scenario where bugging out with my wife and eighteen month old son has a happy ending. Probably best for us to hunker down and fortify as best we can.

In truth you will be damned if you do and damned if you don't.
If it actually reaches the point, moving may be difficult, but sitting will be certain death wish. At least they will have to work at it if you are on the move. Anyone under the illusion that a lot of lives wont be lost are in a movie dream. Children included. That is sad reality. We have 11 grandchildren and 2 great grandchildren and I shudder at the logistics of keeping them alive in a future like that, but people will do what they need to do. Teach them everything you can and pray they heed what you teach them.
Marauders are one thing, it is gov that you need to be concerned with.

 

[simon99]

Having children, older folks, those with health challenges and special needs can complicate things, but in no way should that force you to feel that all is lost or you need to bunker up and hunker down. I'm not trying to sound morbid or macho, I'm just saying that when the mob mentality becomes reality these people will gladly shoot your wife and children in front of you with no remorse. These people don't have morals or ethics or worry about right or wrong, they'll be hungry or greedy or fanatical....or a combination of all those things.
My suggestion to those with families is to train with your family. You're going to have to train to become the enemy of your enemy and terrorize them. Make them terrified to even consider coming after you or your family. Demoralize them so much that they want to leave the area.....

Believe me, you can make it happen. A few well trained people can stop a large army dead in its tracks if you have the will and the skill.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I'm with Ragnar Benson, being a refugee sucks, hence my long time plans. If I fail in defense at least I won't look like a moth eaten half starved peasant

 

[kickstart my heart]

I'm starting to put more thought into places to bug out to (since bugging in may only last a short while). Problems with how to get there with clogged roads, how to transport your preps, what to do if someone beats you to that retreat (with a bigger force), or long term what happens when people show up to your now "not so remote" location. Makes me wish I lived a bit more out in the sticks. Of course, then the problem of how to get home (if you're at work or out of town and something goes down). The idea of buying some land far off the beaten path now doesn't sounds so silly. If anything it would be a good spot to came and have my own private outdoor range.

 

[U201491]

There are a thousand variables that will alter whatever plans you have.
Be flexible and learn as much as you can about everything within a couple hundred miles of you. There are back routes, side routes and alternatives to everything. Make sure you have good wide banded com receivers and a couple good tranceivers in the 2 M band.
Even the inexpensive GMRS will be better than nothing.
Better to know the land , but a gps might be handy. It they dont shut down the sats. They are battery hogs, so just turn on long enough to acquire a position and shut it off. Do Not use a cell phone for a gps.
Get rid of that right off.
Do not count on GPS being on though.

As for hand held tranceivers.
Hwve the means to charge them.
Listen a lot, talk little.
Just be very flexible. Everything will change by the hour.

 

[AMProducts]

I think one of the issues that needs to be addressed as I read some of the posts is that holing up in one location, standing your ground, etc. is a very bad idea from an operational standpoint. .....unless you are in some kind of concrete bomb shelter. To survive you need to constantly be on the move and quick to adapt to ever-changing forces and tactics. In an offensive situation, if you have the opportunity to eliminate a threat at long range, as soon as you make the shot you're going to be targeted from that moment forward. If you have a spotter that can make effective hits from that distance you may be able to maintain your position for a while, but not indefinitely. Holding your ground mentality is a good way to get yourself killed.

No matter what, the "defense of the Alamo" approach hasn't been a good idea for at least several hundred years. However, when you transition from defending a fixed point that isn't fortified (a house) to defending an "area" you are much better off. If you're defending an area, you have all of the advantages of using the tactics of either the offense or defense. If you have local threats, who intend to take the alamo approach and a few neighbors who share your interest in "cleaning up the neighborhood" it should be pretty easy to steamroll them with small arms and molotov cocktails.

Thing is, if you listen to the video, there are a number of tactics discussed, since it's been at least a week since I listened to it, anyone go through and take note of them?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

It all comes down to

position

supplies

tactical wit/natural ability

study of unconventional warfare

manpower

courage and morale

 

[Stomper]

You forgot guile.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

You forgot being ice-crystal cold!

 

[Blitzkrieg]

You forgot guile.

That falls under

tactical wit/natural ability

 

[Blitzkrieg]

You forgot being ice-crystal cold!

I am a hot blooded Scot but when battle enjoins I am frosty as far as being able to follow thru.. worked for me so far but give all credit to our Maker because we are all the work of His hands and indeed His angels fight for His true children, unseen

In what is coming pray constantly for His protection, we are all going to need it, badly

 

[mjbskwim]

If you believe in King James' fairy tales this should all be a mute subject........but that's just my opinion
and I thought this wasn't a place for religion

Possibly, but trying to remain mobile with small children isn't really feasible either. If you're on your own, or with other able-bodied adults, then staying on the move might work for you. I don't see a scenario where bugging out with my wife and eighteen month old son has a happy ending. Probably best for us to hunker down and fortify as best we can.

Nomads have traveled with children since the beginning of time.

Bugging in for most folks will be the best way to go. Not many have the skills needed to survive outside the home(or the mall) anyway.
And where will you go? To someone else's neighborhood? The woods or anywhere you go that isn't you normal stomping grounds is another's back yard or battle ground. Unless you have hunted or camped,4X4ed,etc the area,you will be at a disadvantage.
Probably locals waiting for y'all.
You can't take enough ammo to fight them. They live close by. They'll take turns sleeping in there own beds,eating warm meals.
They'll have ambush points established.I know I would if I lived way out of town.

How are you going to ever haul enough water? Food?

If you are bugging out,you need a spot set up to move to.....before the S really HTF. Have a place that is fortified and stocked. Maybe some like minded friends will meet there and help defend the place.
Have a storage container set up and hiiden with supplies.Heck,if someone sees your rig's back bumper draggin the ground,you're a target

BTW,how many of y'all are in perfect condition and will be able to travel every other day? All that poo gets old quick

 

[Grunwald]

Defend a territory not a building.
Be like a fart - silent but deadly. (if they don't know where the shots came from, they cannot mobile against you).

 

[AMProducts]

Defend a territory not a building.
Be like a fart - silent but deadly. (if they don't know where the shots came from, they cannot mobile against you).

This is one of those occasions where we can learn from our adversaries over in the middle east... they let traps do all the killing. Why waste a bullet and risk being located when you could lure them into an attractive trap and kill all of them?

One of the interesting things I've noticed when looking at how we prosecute war, going back to the start of the second iraq war, as the armor of our vehicles got better and better, they became a better prison for our soldiers. (not that I blame them) and as a consequence the adversary changed tactics, rather than using small arms, which are ineffective against armored vehicles, instead they opted to use IED's to first destroy the vehicle, second, force the soldiers to dismount, and then catch whoever crawled out of the rubble with more IEDs.

Frankly, it's the same thing that happened to the russians in afghanistan, they became prisoners of their armored vehicles.

However, it's also important to note, that territory cannot be controlled without you being there, sadly, this is a lesson that has been lost on the current generation of military officers and executive leadership.

During WW2, there was a well defined line between good guys and bad guys, not in that leadership knew exactly where it was, but the guys who were there knew exactly where the lines were. The armored Blitzkrieg tactics of WW2 gave way to air-mobile fighting in korea and vietnam. Vietnam is the essential test-case for air-mobile fighting, in that one force can move so rapidly that they are operating in the enemies rear, however that really only bothers a technologically advanced adversary. When your "support area" is the place you put your rug down, and the wall you lean your AK up against there are simply not enough resources for the technically dependent force, who needs rear areas where food is brought in, ammo is requisitioned, fuel is issued, and vehicles are fixed.

Victory in nearly every war is defined by the guy who brings himself and all his friends, and kills more of the enemy and his friends. The problem is, when you decide you need a bunch of stuff to do this, it means the deeper into enemy territory you go, the longer your supply lines, and the longer it takes you to get more stuff. If you are entirely dependent on imported stuff the enemy only has to wait until you tire.

This is why conventional warfare in an asymmetrical environment is ineffective.

 

[Grunwald]

Lesson learned from Napolean's venture into Russia.
He entered with a superior military force and left so weak that he could not maintain his recently gained lands and power.
Russians never engaged him in open and direct battle.
They destroyed all the food and supplies before retreating and only did hit and run skirmishes.
They also targeted supply lines.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

If you believe in King James' fairy tales this should all be a mute subject........but that's just my opinion
and I thought this wasn't a place for religion

I don't believe in religion and I'm not trying to convert anyone but I do believe no one is going to survive what is coming without the Big Guys approval. That is my belief and YMMV

 

[CoastRange57]

Russians never engaged him in open and direct battle.
They destroyed all the food and supplies before retreating and only did hit and run skirmishes.
They also targeted supply lines.

Very similar to General George Washington's tactics against the British Crown. With the exception the General would not destroy the supplies, he would seize them for his own troops. Controlling the supply lines was critical.

 

[CoastRange57]

BTW,how many of y'all are in perfect condition and will be able to travel every other day? All that poo gets old quick

Moving under even a moderate supply and weapons load, the "average" American is not going to be able to sustain that pace with out laying up, every two days is going to be wishful thinking. My one son went out every 3 days in Afghanistan carrying lite pack, full ammo loads and SAW. It took them 2 days to recover. And I am talking about 20 something males in excellent condition.