Messages
64
Reactions
44
bare with me, this does have to do with the best WW2 cartridge

I was working in Las Vegas about 5 years ago and my associate received a cell phone call from his wife
the Henderson Police were at their door with a warrant and the REAL CSI Las Vegas was with them
when he got home, the police asked him if he owned a Mosin Nagant 91/30 - and he said yes

a home owner in Henderson had complained that a bullet came through their Livingroom wall, missed their kids and imbedded itself in a wooden stud in their garage
it was a 148 gn, .310 diameter bullet, commonly used in the Mosin Nagant
the police had a warrant to search his home for a Mosin - CSI had lasered the .30 cal hole in the end destination and found it came through his fence from his bedroom wall.
the Police and CSI accompanied him into his bedroom, turned on the laser and it went through his fence, through his bedroom wall, BUT THEN they noticed the laser also illuminated a .30 cal hole in his bedroom closet and HIS kids room and they found an entrance hole in the outer wall of HIS garage, going out into the desert beyond Henderson.

SOOO - someone out in the desert East of Henderson had shot his Mosin, which traveled over a mile, went through my associates home, through his garage and two bedrooms, and across the street, through another home and finally imbedded in a wooden stud in THEIR garage.
Yikes;I'll save this one for the next time someone tells me I'm too fussy about backstops.

One of the first times I shot mine - my first gun by several years - I was out in a field in the Yukon, blasting away at various trash left there. At one point, some friendly locals arrive with various guns and targets, including a couple of these things which they offered to let me use:

46221-wot-sharpshooter-spinner.jpg

They looked and felt rather sturdy, made of heavy steel plate at least 3/8", maybe 1/2", and I was grateful for a target I could actually see if I hit or not. So I set them up at about 100 paces range and carry on... A few dozen rounds later, WTF is going on? Did my aim suddenly worsen? Is the batch of ammo at this end of the spam can all duds? Why am I not hitting the damn things? I call "cease fire", hike over to the targets... and discover them full of holes, all over the flappers and some through the hoops (even thicker steel IIRC) as well. They didn't even flinch when hit. I bring them back to the locals, obviously more experienced shooters than I, but whose eyes went just as wide when they saw their targets. They burst out laughing and refused my offers to buy them new ones.

Perhaps it was overpowered for anti-personnel use, but I imagine there were often enough scenarios where a squad of infantry with MN (or similar full-sized rifle) happened on a milder hard target - an armored car or halftrack, for example - and blew a whole lot of small holes through it that a more "right-sized" intermediate round would not.
 
Last Edited:
Messages
2,956
Reactions
6,875
I have a '39 Tula 91/30 that is very accurate. It's not a sniper either. The guy that machined it must've got lucky the night before. I can shoot some really good offhand scores with that thing. I also owned (and sold) a 1944 M44 that would not group past 50 yards. As in I have no idea where the bullets landed. That one was TERRIBLE. Lol.

There is a lot of variability in Mosins, but the good ones are really good. Also since we are talking about cartridges here, there is a lot variability in the 7.62x54r ammo. I'm not aware if 30.06/8mm/.303 came in as many different military loads as 'x54r.

All that said I still vote M2 Ball.
 
Messages
1,872
Reactions
3,669
I can't remember (or find it again since I JUST read it) but the sticky chamber isn't usually pits is lawyer or dried schmoo or "mung" as mark Novak would say. But my first mosin I believed that one was 1942 as well had a really bad bolt when I got it. Whatever they used in the armory for storage really sticks. I had to clean the piss out of it with steel wool and acetone and then it ran perfect. My last one which I basically got for free when I bought I a bunch of other stuff ran fine. I read this was a common issue when I looked into the bolt sticking. Been years since I looked into it though. I don't doubt at all that some are heavily pitted.
on all my new Mosins, I scrub the chamber with a 12 ga brush and solvent first, then run a .30 cal flex hone in it for about 5 min


but on one of my Mosins, I cycled the bolt 1000 times with JB compound
that one runs smoother than a Mauser

I have 2 former Dragoons that were never used in combat in WW2, both of them run sweet
 
I also owned (and sold) a 1944 M44 that would not group past 50 yards. As in I have no idea where the bullets landed. That one was TERRIBLE. Lol.
LOL. I, briefly, had a Hungarian M44 back in the late 90s. Minute-of-Zip-Code accuracy, at best. Though in the thick forest canopy of northern most coast of Oregon, the fireball was impressive, if nothing else. I don't miss that carbine at all.
 
Messages
1,872
Reactions
3,669
LOL. I, briefly, had a Hungarian M44 back in the late 90s. Minute-of-Zip-Code accuracy, at best. Though in the thick forest canopy of northern most coast of Oregon, the fireball was impressive, if nothing else. I don't miss that carbine at all.
My M38 is one of my most accurate Mosins
as for the fireball, that's common with Mil Surp Russian ammo
but with Bear or LVE ammo, the carbines are much more controllable
 
Messages
329
Reactions
314
The best is when you, as a soldier in combat with an M1, are out of ammo, and you find a bag full of 30-06 in M1 clips.

Good is when you, as a soldier in combat with an M1, are out of ammo, and you find a bag full of 30-06 on 1903 stripper clips, and you reload your M1 clips.

Worst is when you, as a soldier in combat with an M1, are out of ammo, and you find a bag full of ammo on stripper clips, and you reload your M1 clips, and find you just jammed your M1 with 8x57.

:D

Bruce
 
Yikes;I'll save this one for the next time someone tells me I'm too fussy about backstops.

One of the first times I shot mine - my first gun by several years - I was out in a field in the Yukon, blasting away at various trash left there. At one point, some friendly locals arrive with various guns and targets, including a couple of these things which they offered to let me use:

View attachment 1256896

They looked and felt rather sturdy, made of heavy steel plate at least 3/8", maybe 1/2", and I was grateful for a target I could actually see if I hit or not. So I set them up at about 100 paces range and carry on... A few dozen rounds later, WTF is going on? Did my aim suddenly worsen? Is the batch of ammo at this end of the spam can all duds? Why am I not hitting the damn things? I call "cease fire", hike over to the targets... and discover them full of holes, all over the flappers and some through the hoops (even thicker steel IIRC) as well. They didn't even flinch when hit. I bring them back to the locals, obviously more experienced shooters than I, but whose eyes went just as wide when they saw their targets. They burst out laughing and refused my offers to buy them new ones.

Perhaps it was overpowered for anti-personnel use, but I imagine there were often enough scenarios where a squad of infantry with MN (or similar full-sized rifle) happened on a milder hard target - an armored car or halftrack, for example - and blew a whole lot of small holes through it that a more "right-sized" intermediate round would not.
Yup, that's a steel jacket and steel core for ya. Great for breaking rocks at the quarry too, First time I saw a MN my buddy just brought his and a can of spray paint to paint rocks with for targets. I was very sketched out at first but they break with authority.

Don't get me wrong, even though I voted for 30-06 (which is debatable) I don't own a 30-06, I do however have a couple 54R barkers.
 
I did not do this intentionally, but my 1924 Mosin shot through the backstop and through a Fir tree

don't hide behind a tree if someone is shooting at you with a Mosin

the tree survived!

View attachment 1257177 View attachment 1257178
I like the keyhole shaped scars. Yeah that sounds about right. I had a co worker who got VERY butt hurt who had a shooting lane right beside his house. I after shooting I google mapped it and was looking at this small forest we were shooting at and you can CLEARLY see a home about 200 yards through the woods. He started to get very upset when I brought it up. No tears lost what so ever over that friendship and I'm using that term friendship loosely here. He lived in yelm.
His berm was fairly hap hazard and he didn't know jack squat about guns even though he was former USCG.
In wasn't thinking so much of the home (although that was primary concern) but was thinking of extraneous circumstances like kids playing closer etc. But he's god and knows and sees all don't ever question.. o_O

Ignorant people really piss me off sometimes.
 
Messages
1,872
Reactions
3,669
I like the keyhole shaped scars. Yeah that sounds about right. I had a co worker who got VERY butt hurt who had a shooting lane right beside his house. I after shooting I google mapped it and was looking at this small forest we were shooting at and you can CLEARLY see a home about 200 yards through the woods. He started to get very upset when I brought it up. No tears lost what so ever over that friendship and I'm using that term friendship loosely here. He lived in yelm.
His berm was fairly hap hazard and he didn't know jack squat about guns even though he was former USCG.
In wasn't thinking so much of the home (although that was primary concern) but was thinking of extraneous circumstances like kids playing closer etc. But he's god and knows and sees all don't ever question.. o_O

Ignorant people really piss me off sometimes.
there are no structures or human habitat for 2000 feet, just heavy forest
we quite fireing Mosins on the property until our neighbor built his shooting berm

another point we noted is that US M2 Ball and 8mm Mauser round will follow the ground contour in the field when shot into the ground at a shallow angle
a 54R Mil Surp will tumble and head off an an unpredicted trajectory
in that if your shot hits low and short, the M2 ball and Masuer will track into the berm
a 54R Mil Surp can actually tumble and miss the berm
Bear 54R will not do this, it tracks like a 8mm or 30-06
 
Messages
4,022
Reactions
10,327
I remember being shocked the first time I shot a 6.5 Carcano. The long, heavy FMJ-RN bullets punched right through thick alder trees and kept going. It was impressive.

As to backstops, I know of a young guy who ended up with a felony charge because he wasn't careful about where his bullets went. Neighbor of a long-time friend, his backstop was just some woods between him and my friend's farm. A bullet went through the woods and ended up in my friend's wife's horse. The guy had been warned more than once, and my friend had had it, called the cops. He felt bad that the guy ended up with a felony at 18, but he had been warned (that, and it could have easily been one of his kids instead of the horse).

As to the best WWII round, I agree about M2 ball (especially when paired with the Garand rifle), but just for a twist, how about M2 AP? I remember reading that it was extensively used in WWII. It's a slightly hotter loading with a bit more punch (pun intended).
 
Messages
1,872
Reactions
3,669
there are no structures or human habitat for 2000 feet, just heavy forest
we quite fireing Mosins on the property until our neighbor built his shooting berm

another point we noted is that US M2 Ball and 8mm Mauser round will follow the ground contour in the field when shot into the ground at a shallow angle
a 54R Mil Surp will tumble and head off an an unpredicted trajectory
in that if your shot hits low and short, the M2 ball and Masuer will track into the berm
a 54R Mil Surp can actually tumble and miss the berm
Bear 54R will not do this, it tracks like a 8mm or 30-06
OK, I used Google Earth - it's 835 yrds through heavy forest to the next county road and 1500 yrds to the next structure - that was a good suggestion
a 54R drops 14.5 MOA at 800 yrds
 
Messages
4,847
Reactions
4,401
Depends on criteria I suppose

30-06, .45, 9mm & 7.62x54r were and are certainly effective, all have withstood the test of time.
Then again, thats because we won... I imagine if things went differently, 8mm would have been more common instead of the x54r or -06


Though as far as rifle rounds go.... theyre all firing a similar sized bullet at similar velocities and will produce near equal damage to the human body.

Caliber wise I cant really make an argument... now when we talk firearms of the era, thats a worthwhile argument
 
Messages
1,872
Reactions
3,669
Depends on criteria I suppose

30-06, .45, 9mm & 7.62x54r were and are certainly effective, all have withstood the test of time.
Then again, thats because we won... I imagine if things went differently, 8mm would have been more common instead of the x54r or -06


Though as far as rifle rounds go.... theyre all firing a similar sized bullet at similar velocities and will produce near equal damage to the human body.

Caliber wise I cant really make an argument... now when we talk firearms of the era, thats a worthwhile argument
OK, I have 2 Garands, a Mauser, a dozen Mosins and a 1911 .45
which one you want to discuss?
I'll all for it!!
 
Messages
1,872
Reactions
3,669
Hahaha well... I'll take a K98 over the Mosin and the M1 over both & probably almost anything else :D
I will have to disagree on the K98
during the Winter War, the K98s provided to the Finns fails miserably in -30 Deg weather
they also failed at Stalingrad
as for the Garand, it also failed in Korea in severe winter weather
the Chinese came across the 38 Parallel with Mosins
at the Chosen Reservoir, the temps dropped to -40 deg and the Marine M1 Garand's had issues - the Chinese Mosins did not
luckily, most of us will never experience such weather
I can only test my rilfes down to "0" deg in my chest freezer and both my Garands work well at that temp with Lubriplate

during the Winter War, the Finns flushed their Mosins with kerosene and shot them dry
 
Messages
1,872
Reactions
3,669
I will have to disagree on the K98
during the Winter War, the K98s provided to the Finns fails miserably in -30 Deg weather
they also failed at Stalingrad
as for the Garand, it also failed in Korea in severe winter weather
the Chinese came across the 38 Parallel with Mosins
at the Chosen Reservoir, the temps dropped to -40 deg and the Marine M1 Garand's had issues - the Chinese Mosins did not
luckily, most of us will never experience such weather
I can only test my rilfes down to "0" deg in my chest freezer and both my Garands work well at that temp with Lubriplate

during the Winter War, the Finns flushed their Mosins with kerosene and shot them dry
but today we have Mobil 1 grease which is good to -56 F
I need to get some of this
 
Messages
162
Reactions
161
Remington,1903-A3 Service rifle in 30-06 wins hands down. Much history in this use and great sporterized. I’ve had a few, timney trigger, Shaw barrel, Monte Carlo stock, reliable action, controlled round feeding. I killed everything on 4 legs in North America with it except bighorn sheep. In the 60’s - 80’s we reloaded 180 grain Remington Bronze points. All modern plastic tipped ammo emulates this high BC design.
 

Upcoming Events

2A Rally at the Capitol
Salem, OR
Wes Knodel Gun Shows
Chehalis, WA
Wes Knodel Gun Shows
Redmond, OR

Latest Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Back Top