What sucks the most about job searching?

[Ducati_Meister]

There's a lot of BS associated with job searching. The few that I find infuriating personally are having to spend the time making the resume stick out in these bullbubblegum algorithms just to get a human to see the damn thing and in the end, is a crap shoot.

Next, the lack of follow up with firms after applications and/or interviews have been completed, and in some cases, they don't want people to follow up at all and then we have to hope there's some kind of resolution in a reasonable amount of time. If I do follow up, some of these people sound pissed like I'm asking them to go shoot their dog.

Of course we can't forget applying for gigs that have already been filled, so you just wasted precious time as a result. I should make a special mention at gigs with multiple interviews as in why do multiple interviews? Can't see I'm the right fit in one?

Also, why do some HR people use this jargon when they can't just be more direct with me and say we got someone and good luck so I know not to waste more time.

Finally, for veterans like myself, it would be nice if we didn't have to keep fighting this human factor in this society bent on college degrees like it's the be all, end all. We wear many hats and have experiences that college can't provide in many respects.

For our Vietnam veterans, welcome home.

- DM

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[Hueco]

Write yourself a few styles of cover letter that you can easily adapt to a job posting. For example, I'm in marketing operations and have cover letters for Marketing Operations, Marketing Team Manager, and Designer. I've got resume copies that are tailored for each as well.

If you've ever heard that "your resume should be just 1 page long" idea - can it. Your resume is however long it needs to be. Write your highlight reel using the Subject-Task-Action-Result method.

When looking at a job posting, look at the required experience and skill and then adjust your bullet points to use their key words in as many places as you can. If you are applying for a job that you are qualified for and have experience in, then I guarantee that you can find a way to reword everything they're asking for into a bullet point of your experience.

This will get you easily past the algorithms and, for me, nets a screening call on just about every job I've applied for. And that's all that you can ask out of a resume. After that, it's all on you and your ability to sell yourself.

A job posting is your future boss's way of saying, "I want x, y, and z on my team." It does you no good to say that you have experience in a, b, and c. Yes, you absolutely have to adjust your resume for every job you apply for. It sucks. It's work. But, if you can't take the time to position yourself in the best light possible, why would they want to hire you anyway?

I've been the spray and pray job poster; it doesn't work. I've also hired teams. People who do the above get the attention.

 

[Alexx1401]

It's never been anywhere near as easy as it is now to look. Most want the person to apply on line. To set up a proper resume and cover there is free help on line. I don't think many have any idea what it used to be like.

 

[JohnnyMac]

I went through this a couple years ago when my company lost it's govt. contract and we all got laid off. Initially I was submitting resumes that were pretty much the same no matter what company and I didn't get a lot of responses. Through trial and error, I found that creating a specific cover page and a one page resume worked pretty good. With the resume, I would customize the objective and summary of qualifications to match exactly what they specified in the job description, and then keep my experience and certifications fairly generic. I might make minor verbiage adjustments in the experience to sound more like what they were looking for, but it mostly stayed the same. I could then apply for multiple jobs with that basic resume and only have to change to the top information to match the company/position. I got a lot of calls and interviews after this. While I understand what @Hueco said about canning the one page resume, I would just caution you to keep everything relevant to the job position. I was a hiring manager for a couple years and when I had a short amount of time to weed through 30+ resumes for the same position, those that were more than a page or two full of fluff and certifications or experience that had nothing to do with the job position, didn't get a lot of love. Stick to the position you are applying for.
Multiple job interviews are how many do it now. The first is a basic "Let's make sure this guy doesn't belong in an insane asylum". Quite a few of my interviews were situational questions (STAR - Situation, Task, Action, Result) that at first really were difficult because you start to overthink what exactly they are looking for, so you might do a little research on that if you haven't already. The next interview(s) drill down into your experience and knowledge of the job position, and usually the last interview is just so the supervisors and owner/boss can meet you and make the final decision as to whether you're a fit or not. On that note, when it comes right down to it, quite often being a good fit is a higher priority. If you seem like a guy that's a team player and can get along with everyone and have a positive attitude, they will be willing to teach you the job, but if you're a weirdo that doesn't make eye contact and cries during the interviews, it doesn't matter how much experience you have, they aren't going to hire you.

Good Luck and let us know how it goes.

My two cents - probably only worth a penny.....

 

[bbbass]

Finally, for veterans like myself, it would be nice if we didn't have to keep fighting this human factor in this society bent on college degrees like it's the be all, end all. We wear many hats and have experiences that college can't provide in many respects.

The only way this would be an issue is if the veteran had never had a living wage job in the real world.

When I left the service, I had worked for AT&T as a Central Office Equip Installer prior to going in, but that wasn't likely to be a job I could get back into.... So I used my service vocation and looked for jobs in both Aviation Electronics and Radio Communications, which was my specialty when I wasn't flying as SAR Aircrew. I was fortunate to get a job offer from MCI but I decided against staying in San Diego so I took a diff job with a small radio shop here in NE Oregon.

I think it would be harder to do if one was an officer because a lot of that work is probably administrative, and most of those jobs do require a college degree, but aren't all commissioned officers college grads?

Anyway the point about identifying what skillz a job needs and then writing up what experience one has in that skill is an extremely valid point (and there is a resume style just for this). One has to think about things from the company's viewpoint... what do they need, what are they looking for? All too many applicants view it from the "what do I want" or they list ALL their experience and skillz, when much of that is just blah blah blah to the employer. FOCUS!

It's never been easier to customize applications, cover letter and resume. Problem is... there will be a lot of competition with people that lost their jobs in the pandemic economic collapse. Right now, IMO, if you can go back into the service, you got a job, do it!! If you are still in, stay in. If you are an officer that got passed over twice... sorry. If you are enlisted and got booted out, sorry. (I don't think I'd be putting that on the resume... )

There are many many jobs that don't require a college degree... you can go to trade school first and go into a trade, make $80k+/yr. But if you want to apply for jobs that do require a college degree, you gotta have a killer way to get past the algo's and then have a killer cover letter and resume that shows that YOU are the man for the job anyway... it worked for me later on in life when I won a job as a Representative for Air Life of NE Oregon.

 

[DB is Here]

The reason for the long job interview is to wear you down, so the real you can be seen. Our interviews would always last about 2 hours and we'd introduce several managers from different divisions into the process, often asking the same questions. We'd then review notes after the prospective employee left.

Hiring and training are expensive, so it's best to weed out the chaff through a longer interview process...for us, it was time well spent as our hires were much improved through this initial vetting process as the cream rose to the top.

 

[The Heretic]

A few things that annoy me:

1) Recruiters who call without asking if it is ok to call, and when to call. I may be unemployed (or not), but I am busy. I may be on another call. I may be on the toilet. I may be working. If I don't have your number in my contacts and I am not expecting your call, I won't answer.

2) Recruiters who want my resume, but won't say what for. I want to control what employers see my resume, and I don't want multiple recruiters sending my resume for the same position other recruiters have sent it to, and I don't want recruiters sending my resume to a position I have already applied for, and I don't want recruiters sending my resume to a position that I don't want, or that I am not qualified for.

3) Employers who ask me to write code during a phone interview - if you want code, give me an example problem and I will think about it and send you an example of how I might solve it. Employers who have me take a personality test. Employers who ask stupid questions like "where do you see yourself in 5 years" (I am right at the point where I will now answer "on a beach in Tahiti") - nobody knows where they will be in 5 years - that is a very stupid question.

4) Recruiters who want my references up front before they have a position I would be interested in and the employer is interested in me. My references are busy people. I don't want them bother them with every recruiter that contacts me calling them up (some of which just want my references so they can get their resumes/etc.). Checking references should be the last thing done, maybe just before an in-person interview, preferably afterwards.

5) Online job app sites that have me enter everything from my resume. The good sites can mine my resume. The bad sites crash halfway thru (Oracle is one I remember doing that - IBM is another).

6) Recruiters who don't listen to employers who say they won't accept resumes from recruiters, who don't want to deal with recruiters/agencies. From now on, if the recruiter doesn't have a job description, I don't want to deal with them - a lot of them go out and find jobs on the job sites and then blanket the employer with resumes, without otherwise contacting the employer.

 

[Resist_This]

check out kencoleman.com. He's a Dave Ramsey "personality" and seems to have good info on finding a new job.

 

[The Heretic]

The reason for the long job interview is to wear you down, so the real you can be seen. Our interviews would always last about 2 hours and we'd introduce several managers from different divisions into the process, often asking the same questions. We'd then review notes after the prospective employee left.

Hiring and training are expensive, so it's best to weed out the chaff through a longer interview process...for us, it was time well spent as our hires were much improved through this initial vetting process as the cream rose to the top.

Wasteful for many positions.

I am a code monkey (software developer). The people I interface with are other devs and occasionally the domain experts. The only manager I need to talk with are the managers for the devs who handles day to day operations.

Pull in all those other people (I have been interviewed by CEOs/Presidents) and it is just a waste of their valuable time, and mine.

My pet peeve with that whole process is managers who interview and hire devs without having devs interview the candidate. Very few managers know coding, and even fewer know coding as well as their devs.

 

[Ducati_Meister]

The only way this would be an issue is if the veteran had never had a living wage job in the real world.

When I left the service, I had worked for AT&T as a Central Office Equip Installer prior to going in, but that wasn't likely to be a job I could get back into.... So I used my service vocation and looked for jobs in both Aviation Electronics and Radio Communications, which was my specialty when I wasn't flying as SAR Aircrew. I was fortunate to get a job offer from MCI but I decided against staying in San Diego so I took a diff job with a small radio shop here in NE Oregon.

I think it would be harder to do if one was an officer because a lot of that work is probably administrative, and most of those jobs do require a college degree, but aren't all commissioned officers college grads?

Anyway the point about identifying what skillz a job needs and then writing up what experience one has in that skill is an extremely valid point (and there is a resume style just for this). One has to think about things from the company's viewpoint... what do they need, what are they looking for? All too many applicants view it from the "what do I want" or they list ALL their experience and skillz, when much of that is just blah blah blah to the employer. FOCUS!

It's never been easier to customize applications, cover letter and resume. Problem is... there will be a lot of competition with people that lost their jobs in the pandemic economic collapse. Right now, IMO, if you can go back into the service, you got a job, do it!! If you are still in, stay in. If you are an officer that got passed over twice... sorry. If you are enlisted and got booted out, sorry. (I don't think I'd be putting that on the resume... )

There are many many jobs that don't require a college degree... you can go to trade school first and go into a trade, make $80k+/yr. But if you want to apply for jobs that do require a college degree, you gotta have a killer way to get past the algo's and then have a killer cover letter and resume that shows that YOU are the man for the job anyway... it worked for me later on in life when I won a job as a Representative for Air Life of NE Oregon.

You do make some good points here. I did try to get back in the service after getting out initially due to medical reasons, but after a year of paperwork shuffling, I eventually got permanently medically disqualified after going to MEPS and submitting waivers, due to hearing loss and the use of hearing aids. If I could have stayed in, I would have.

 

[bbbass]

The reason for the long job interview is to wear you down, so the real you can be seen. Our interviews would always last about 2 hours and we'd introduce several managers from different divisions into the process, often asking the same questions. We'd then review notes after the prospective employee left.

Hiring and training are expensive, so it's best to weed out the chaff through a longer interview process...for us, it was time well spent as our hires were much improved through this initial vetting process as the cream rose to the top.

The last official job interview I had was for OPB... in the second interview they put me on speakerphone with a team of assassins and ran me thru a ringer to see how I would perform under stress.

What I do hate is the "canned" interviews today, where all the companies ask questions designed by jerks. "What is your fav color?", "If you were on a desert island with 3 co-workers and you were all starving, what would you do?" "Tell me about yourself." "What are your biggest weaknesses?" It's all in a playbook they use.. one can reverse it on them tho: Answers to 47 common interview questions: Your Ultimate Guide to Answering the Most Common Interview Questions

 

[DB is Here]

Wasteful for many positions.

I am a code monkey (software developer). The people I interface with are other devs and occasionally the domain experts. The only manager I need to talk with are the managers for the devs who handles day to day operations.

Pull in all those other people (I have been interviewed by CEOs/Presidents) and it is just a waste of their valuable time, and mine.

My pet peeve with that whole process is managers who interview and hire devs without having devs interview the candidate. Very few managers know coding, and even fewer know coding as well as their devs.

You didn't make it to the managers until you made it past the SME's (Subject Matter Expert's)...but I understand your point.

 

[bbbass]

You do make some good points here. I did try to get back in the service after getting out initially due to medical reasons, but after a year of paperwork shuffling, I eventually got permanently medically disqualified after going to MEPS and submitting waivers, due to hearing loss and the use of hearing aids. If I could have stayed in, I would have.

Bummer.

I'd say good luck, but you need to make your own luck! And don't give up!!!

I'll say Best Wishes for your job search!!!

But seriously consider a trade school. I think we are going to see a lot of grants and low interest loans in the wake of this pandemic. IMO vets should have a special program. But the point is that not everyone gets, or even wants, a white collar job. The world need skilled workers more than it needs office/corp drones.

 

[DB is Here]

What I do hate is the "canned" interviews today, where all the companies ask questions designed by jerks.

You and everyone else, which is why we didn't use those. Questions came from experienced folks in our field and based on real-life scenarios that have and continue to play out.

 

[The Heretic]

The last official job interview I had was for OPB... in the second interview they put me on speakerphone with a team of assassins and ran me thru a ringer to see how I would perform under stress.

What I do hate is the "canned" interviews today, where all the companies ask questions designed by jerks. "What is your fav color?", "If you were on a desert island with 3 co-workers and you were all starving, what would you do?" "Tell me about yourself." "What are your biggest weaknesses?" It's all in a playbook they use.. one can reverse it on them tho: Answers to 47 common interview questions: Your Ultimate Guide to Answering the Most Common Interview Questions

I am at the point (close to, or even at, retirement) where I would walk out of such an interview or answer with stupid answers - 'blue', 'eat them'. If the corp is that stupid as to ask those stupid questions, I don't want to work there.

 

[bbbass]

I am at the point (close to, or even at, retirement) where I would walk out of such an interview or answer with stupid answers - 'blue', 'eat them'. If the corp is that stupid as to ask those stupid questions, I don't want to work there.

After turning 50, I found it impossible to get a job anywhere in my fields of experience, so I had to create my own by starting a biz. But it's maybe different for coders... IDK.

After medical factors made it impossible to continue in my biz, I tried long haul trucking, that sucked. Then I was able to go back to work in the radio shop I started out in after the service, but at 1/4 of the income I was used to... but that's a story for another thread.

 

[The Heretic]

You didn't make it to the managers until you made it past the SME's (Subject Matter Expert's)...but I understand your point.

Other way around sometimes. Where I just got laid off from, the managers interviewed first. The thing is there, the managers were former devs, so I didn't mind that. They wanted their devs writing code, not wasting time interviewing devs who didn't pass the first screening.

It is rare that I was interviewed by SMEs. Sometimes it was HR first, sometimes HR last. Usually HR would do a phone (sometimes email) screening, then I would maybe get to talk to the actual team.

IMO, the best process for hiring devs, is to give the dev team about ten resumes to filter thru, let them pick three they want to interview, and if one of those seems good, then have HR check their references/work history/etc.

 

[Ducati_Meister]

Bummer.

I'd say good luck, but you need to make your own luck! And don't give up!!!

I'll say Best Wishes for your job search!!!

But seriously consider a trade school. I think we are going to see a lot of grants and low interest loans in the wake of this pandemic. IMO vets should have a special program. But the point is that not everyone gets, or even wants, a white collar job. The world need skilled workers more than it needs office/corp drones.

I'm a trained watchmaker and my job in the service was being power generation technician and worked on aircraft arresting systems on the flight line. I've put in for many public utilities jobs, but haven't heard a peep since this virus crap came along etc.

 

[bbbass]

I'm a trained watchmaker and my job in the service was being power generation technician and worked on aircraft arresting systems on the flight line. I've put in for many public utilities jobs, but haven't heard a peep since this virus crap came along etc.

Extreme bad timing.

When things get better you might also consider jobs in the school system, seems like your experience would lend itself to working on boilers, etc. Steam systems, right?

Sooooo, power companies then... dams and natural gas plants and such??? Maybe take a nuke class? Are you willing to move to take a job at a power plant somewhere?

Watchmaker... not too much need anymore... kind of a specialty... maybe New York. But the last watchmaker I knew was also a master jeweler... maybe start your own biz...

 

[The Heretic]

After turning 50, I found it impossible to get a job anywhere in my fields of experience, so I had to create my own by starting a biz. But it's maybe different for coders... IDK.

Most of the tech sector expects devs to be young, certainly less than 50 years old, and rarely accepts someone my age (65-66) because we are so close to retirement. Someone older than 45-50 is considered too old/slow/unwilling to learn new tech. In my experience, ability to learn by people already experienced in dev, has little to do with age and a lot to do with attitude. I have worked with a lot of devs half my age who simply do not want to improve or learn new things - one guy right out refused to change (he was eventually replaced).

Fortunately, the corp I worked for didn't care about age in and of itself - a significant number of tech people working there were my age or older. There was one dev on my team that is older than I am and is still there. One thing you don't want to tell an employer is that you are thinking of retiring - that puts you on the short list of people to let go when the crunch hits.