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What is going on here???

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Kevatc, Jun 15, 2012.

  1. Kevatc

    Kevatc Oregon Well-Known Member

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    So I bought some Montana Gold 55gr FMJBT's and have been in the process of getting them loaded up. Not sure if my issue a brass or bullet or perhaps my seater die isn't adjusted properly. All I know is that I loaded up a 1000 Hornady bullets without a single problem. The only thing that has changed is the bullet and I have adjusted my seater die to OAL is 2.245. All of my brass has been passed through a Wilson gauge and trimmed. I adjusted my seater die hoping to be able to crimp to the cannelure. After reading some of the recent threads about .223/5.56 reloading I decided to not worry about crimping for the time being.

    As you can see in this photo the 3 rounds to the left have "rolled" a bit just under the shoulder. I can actually feel it happen as I seat the bullet. It doesn't happen everytime but frequent enough to be darned irritating. The round on the right is a Hornady bullet and as mentioned one of a thousand where I didn't have a single issue.

    223001.jpg


    This photo shows the Hornady crimped round on the right and the problem round on the left. Thinking I had a crimp issue I removed the crimp die and yet this "rolling" still occurs. There are also some weird marks near the case mouth.

    223002.jpg


    So what in the heck is going on?????
     
  2. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    Looks like you are using a factory crimp die and it is adjusted wrong, try backing off a quarter turn.
     
  3. PaulZ

    PaulZ Oregon City Active Member

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    I got that effect by setting the seating die too low. On the Lee die it is "down til it touches the case mouth then
    one turn up for no crimp 1/4 turn down for crimp. The curve of the bullets must be a bit different??
     
  4. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Your seater die is adjusted too far in (down). They probably won't chamber, as the diameter at the shoulder is larger now.
    Back the seater die off, and reset the seater plug to seat the bullet to the chosen/intended OAL.
     
  5. Kevatc

    Kevatc Oregon Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly what I did. My stupid mistake for not making the appropriate adjustment in the seating die when I transitioned from the Hornady bullet to the Montana Gold. Once I had the seater die adjusted correctly everything worked smoothly. Fortunately, I only had 7 rounds that showed what the pics above indicate. Those rounds will now become 300 BLK cases :thumbup: .
     
  6. noylj

    noylj high desert Active Member

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    Kevatc--are you all set now?
    This is one reason I wish all seating dies would eliminate the crimp section. Back when I first started reloading (~1976), I quickly decided that I preferred the extra crimp step, when I needed to crimp, then trying to combine the two operations in one.
    For .223, I haven't found a need to crimp any rounds in my OlyArms AR but, if I do find a need, crimping will be a separate operation and I will use the Lee FCD die I have.
     
  7. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Mine too! How do you think I knew what you did by looking at the cases? :confused:
    I even screwed up about the same number of cases before I realized what I had done. :)
     
  8. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Somewhere in ancient history, drifting to present memory through the mists of time, it was said,

    " The axiom here is that changing bullets requires that you begin again with load development for the new bullet (and that would include adjusting of the equipment, including seating depth). This "back to the drawing board" rule is not only beneficial from a safety standpoint, but also conducive to accuracy pursuits."

    I see now that perhaps I should have expressed the equipment adjustment as a personal preference only, and expressed as a requirement my abandonment of crimping AR ammo (since you picked up on the latter, missed the former).

    C-minus, Kevatc!:laugh:
     
  9. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    These cases are still useable. Just Full Length size them and then load with correct settings.

    You can also use a Redding Body die if you have a whole lot of them. the Redding Body die will reform the case body/shoulder area but won't bother the neck, seated bullet, etc. The die is open topped and the only thing I'd do differently would be wear a face shield instead of regular eyeglasses or safety glasses. I've done numerous loaded round using a body die. Just use lube like Unique or Imperial Sizing Wax and go slow.

    For all those that think this might trigger some hand severing, decapitating, event, watch this:

    [video=youtube;mzQZs7O0IaE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzQZs7O0IaE[/video]

    Until you contain the "explosion" in a barrel, all you get is a big flash. Kind of like Obama's term in office.:cool:
     
  10. elsie

    elsie Way over there on the left Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, the effect you are seeing is called "shoulder set back" and is caused by the seating/crimp die being set too deep and pushing the shoulder of the case down. My general recommendation is that whenever you change a component, particularly the bullet, redo all the steps for adjusting the die sets, just like you had gotten a brand new set of dies. And do a whole lot of inspecting after each step to make sure they're adjusted right. I've got an 8x56R case that looks like this (actually a whole lot worse) because the bullet was undersized and I didn't understand why it wasn't getting crimped sufficient to hold the bullet - I could push it into the case with my thumb.


    elsie
     
  11. PaulZ

    PaulZ Oregon City Active Member

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    I did three cases like that then put them back in the sizer and re - used them. Is this too much for the brass?
    safe to shoot?
     
  12. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    Brass is used because of it's malleability. You can bend it, shape it, and not break it until it becomes excessively work hardened. At that point just anneal and repeat the process.

    Shoot away. If you want to save the cases for more than 4-5 loadings, then just anneal.