What Happens When Firing Case (Smokeless Powder) To Clear Barrel Obstruction.

[arakboss]

Exactly. (I recently had a bullet stuck in an M1 Carbine. Pounding it out with a cleaning rod did the trick. And nothing went kaboom.)


This video might be of interest, concerning rifle grenade attachments.

Pretty cool vid.

 

[Mark W.]

I want to put together a kit of cheap tools to use for clearing bore obstructions. What do you use or recommend? Home Depot availability would be best. I want the kit to cover calibers from 22 to 50cal.

I have been shooting since I was a little kid I can't remember a single Squib load save one or two in a Muzzle loader rifle that a ball got dropped down the bore before the powder. And you think you need a service kit to deal with them? You need better ammo.

 

[arakboss]

I have been shooting since I was a little kid I can't remember a single Squib load save one or two in a Muzzle loader rifle that a ball got dropped down the bore before the powder. And you think you need a service kit to deal with them? You need better ammo.

The only bore obstruction I have had to clear so far was an egg sinker fishing weight I stuffed down the bore to measure the lands and grooves of a rifle. I ended up having to drill it out after breaking cleaning rod and dowels trying to get it out. It wasn't a pretty process. I am going to be experimenting with more very light loads in both rifles and pistols and want to be better prepared in case a bullet doesn't make it out of the barrel.

The reason I asked about shooting out an obstruction is because I wanted to try muzzleloading some bullets not very deep down the barrel for smokeless loads. It sounds like that will have to be a string pulling trigger affair, if I try it. I would like to understand the science of how pressure behaves depending on location of bullet. If anybody has a good link to info on that, please share.

 

[tac]

'The reason I asked about shooting out an obstruction is because I wanted to try muzzleloading some bullets not very deep down the barrel for smokeless loads. It sounds like that will have to be a string pulling trigger affair, if I try it. I would like to understand the science of how pressure behaves depending on location of bullet.'

It doesn't matter whether you call it a bullet or a banana, in gun physics it it STILL a barrel obstruction

However, the rest of us here are very keen to see if the laws of physics regarding moving masses of gas at high temperatures and pressures still operate in cooperation with the scientific laws describing their behaviour - discovered by such eminences as Lavoisier and Boyle.

You might care to take a few minutes out of what may remain of your life to read about 'gas-line/oil-line blockages', and the effects of so-called 'hammer-blow' obstructions, where air has been introduced into a high-pressure pipeline. There are a few examples of this happening in places like Nigeria, where the tapping of industrial-sized pipes carrying bulk oil and natural gas, at pressures far less than those encountered by setting of a Class 1 explosive like Black Powder, has resulted in gigantic KA-Booms and losses of life in the hundreds among the local population.

Chances are that you'll get away with it, and that that column of expanding gas will overcome the inertia of the obstruction - dependant, of course, on its location in the barrel - one of the questions you are keen to solve.

OTOH, if it fails to do so, then it STILL has to go somewhere, and you might find that the line of least resistance is, in fact, the gun barrel material.

I'd like to think that having carried out your experiments, more in the style of Wile E Coyote than the aforementioned luminaries, we'll read them after YOU have posted them here, not your grieving widder-woman.

 

[Robear]

'The reason I asked about shooting out an obstruction is because I wanted to try muzzleloading some bullets not very deep down the barrel for smokeless loads. It sounds like that will have to be a string pulling trigger affair, if I try it. I would like to understand the science of how pressure behaves depending on location of bullet.'

It doesn't matter whether you call it a bullet or a banana, in gun physics it it STILL a barrel obstruction

However, the rest of us here are very keen to see if the laws of physics regarding moving masses of gas at high temperatures and pressures still operate in cooperation with the scientific laws describing their behaviour - discovered by such eminences as Lavoisier and Boyle.

You might care to take a few minutes out of what may remain of your life to read about 'gas-line/oil-line blockages', and the effects of so-called 'hammer-blow' obstructions, where air has been introduced into a high-pressure pipeline. There are a few examples of this happening in places like Nigeria, where the tapping of industrial-sized pipes carrying bulk oil and natural gas, at pressures far less than those encountered by setting of a Class 1 explosive like Black Powder, has resulted in gigantic KA-Booms and losses of life in the hundreds among the local population.

Chances are that you'll get away with it, and that that column of expanding gas will overcome the inertia of the obstruction - dependant, of course, on its location in the barrel - one of the questions you are keen to solve.

OTOH, if it fails to do so, then it STILL has to go somewhere, and you might find that the line of least resistance is, in fact, the gun barrel material.

I'd like to think that having carried out your experiments, more in the style of Wile E Coyote than the aforementioned luminaries, we'll read them after YOU have posted them here, not your grieving widder-woman.

There have been reports of pistol destroying kabooms likely caused by cartridges containing tiny loads of smokeless powder. It's thought that when there is a significant open space between the powder and the bullet, fast burning powders like Bullseye or Unique can deflagrate faster than expected or even detonate and generate dangerous pressures. Black powder cartridge shooters are careful to pack their load densely, even using a filler, to avoid this kind of problem.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

'The reason I asked about shooting out an obstruction is because I wanted to try muzzleloading some bullets not very deep down the barrel for smokeless loads. It sounds like that will have to be a string pulling trigger affair, if I try it. I would like to understand the science of how pressure behaves depending on location of bullet.'

It doesn't matter whether you call it a bullet or a banana, in gun physics it it STILL a barrel obstruction

However, the rest of us here are very keen to see if the laws of physics regarding moving masses of gas at high temperatures and pressures still operate in cooperation with the scientific laws describing their behaviour - discovered by such eminences as Lavoisier and Boyle.

You might care to take a few minutes out of what may remain of your life to read about 'gas-line/oil-line blockages', and the effects of so-called 'hammer-blow' obstructions, where air has been introduced into a high-pressure pipeline. There are a few examples of this happening in places like Nigeria, where the tapping of industrial-sized pipes carrying bulk oil and natural gas, at pressures far less than those encountered by setting of a Class 1 explosive like Black Powder, has resulted in gigantic KA-Booms and losses of life in the hundreds among the local population.

Chances are that you'll get away with it, and that that column of expanding gas will overcome the inertia of the obstruction - dependant, of course, on its location in the barrel - one of the questions you are keen to solve.

OTOH, if it fails to do so, then it STILL has to go somewhere, and you might find that the line of least resistance is, in fact, the gun barrel material.

I'd like to think that having carried out your experiments, more in the style of Wile E Coyote than the aforementioned luminaries, we'll read them after YOU have posted them here, not your grieving widder-woman.

Yep, whole ton of time on an extremely bad and extremely dangerous idea. I don't understand why anyone would want to do this when there's an unlimited amount of fun gun projects that are safe and make sense. But it's a free country so...

 

[tac]

There have been reports of pistol destroying kabooms likely caused by cartridges containing tiny loads of smokeless powder. It's thought that when there is a significant open space between the powder and the bullet, fast burning powders like Bullseye or Unique can deflagrate faster than expected or even detonate and generate dangerous pressures. Black powder cartridge shooters are careful to pack their load densely, even using a filler, to avoid this kind of problem.

Ahah! You've read about the strange world of 'surface detonation'! Good man. Yup, nitro-cellulose-based propellants actually have a burn rate, as many of us know, having read up on comparative tables over the years. Fast = pistol and shotgun. Slower = medium=calibre rifles and slow = large calibre/magnum calibre rifles.

It's the same in the world of Black Powder, except that that detonates - it is an Explosive, not a propellant.

4Fg - VERY fast [flintlock pan powder]

3Fg - small calibre pistols - .31 - 36cal and rifles used for small game, like skwerls and coons.

2/3Fg - larger calibre handguns - .44cal and rifles up to around .50cal

2Fg - rifles .54cal and up.

1.5Fg - BIG rifles and smoothbore muskets, miniature cannon.

1Fg - REAL cannon and mortar.

 

[Ziggy44]

Imagine you have a projectile lodged half way down barrel and a primed case with appropiate load of powder is fired to try and blow it out. What do you think will happen?

Boom!

 

[Kruel J]

These ideas are getting more and more dangerous. I REALLY hope we don't have any new-to-guns members that take this stuff seriously.

 

[arakboss]

There have been reports of pistol destroying kabooms likely caused by cartridges containing tiny loads of smokeless powder. It's thought that when there is a significant open space between the powder and the bullet, fast burning powders like Bullseye or Unique can deflagrate faster than expected or even detonate and generate dangerous pressures. Black powder cartridge shooters are careful to pack their load densely, even using a filler, to avoid this kind of problem.

Any links to info on this topic?

 

[Xaevian]

These ideas are getting more and more dangerous. I REALLY hope we don't have any new-to-guns members that take this stuff seriously.

The world needs dreamers and silly hearts.

But then, there are these folks:
List of inventors killed by their own invention

 

[arakboss]

There have been reports of pistol destroying kabooms likely caused by cartridges containing tiny loads of smokeless powder. It's thought that when there is a significant open space between the powder and the bullet, fast burning powders like Bullseye or Unique can deflagrate faster than expected or even detonate and generate dangerous pressures. Black powder cartridge shooters are careful to pack their load densely, even using a filler, to avoid this kind of problem.

Do you have links to more info on this? I have heard of the SEE condition but that is reportedly associated with slower position sensitive powders. I have not heard of that occurring with fast position insensitive powders but I am interested in reading more about it.


I found this info from an online gun rag.

Light loads in large cases can explode (2007 update)

There has been much said about a chance of a gun blowing up with very light loads (usually of fast burning powders) in big cases.On the other hand, a much more common reason for an explosion is a

reloadammo.com

 

[Mike_M57]

Meh. Cut off the barrel just behind the obstruction, thread it for a suppressor and file the appropriate paperwork.