What happens to guns at FFL when buyer fails BGC?

[Brutus57]

With all the new SB941 and I-594 gobbledigook what happens if Joe Blow buys a firearm on say gunbroker or another online seller. Gun is shipped the local FFL for txfer and person can't pass BGC? Does the FFL keep said gun until BGC passed or does seller ultimately get the firearm? pistol vs rifle or now are both same same in the eyes of the state?

And lastly do the online commercial background checking companies who warn you your neighbor might be a pedophile or worse...do those services actually have access to CHL databases like they claim? Have CHL and CPL holders been outted?

Brutus Out

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[Swshield9mm]

https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/failing-the-ftf-bgc.204376/
This helpful?

 

[Brutus57]

A bit for private sales, but the real question is pertaining to a purchase one can make on line. Joe Public buys a rifle or handgun from Bubba's Fine Armory of Fine Firearms who ships said fine firearm to Joe P's chosen local FFL. For whatever reason Joe P's BGC doesn't pass muster. Firearm is paid for....now sits at local FFL.... who gets firearm? Or does it get shipped back Bubba's Fine Armory?

Brutus Out

 

[phatdoughnut]

Thank god for Internet loops holes. Jk

Can't he just sell it to someone else and et them deal with the bcg?

 

[mjbskwim]

The buyer owns the gun. Even if he doesn't pass the back round check he owns the gun.
Now if he doesn't pass the BRC,the FFL can't release the gun to him,but he ultimately owns the gun.
So if he gets denied then he has to tell the FFL if he wants to sell it on consignment or I guess he could sell have a friend come buy it. Then you get into straw purchase areas
But the FFL can't really say much about who he sells the gun to if that person can pass the BRC
My guess is most of the sellers ain't about to give you your money back,cause most tell you your state laws are your problem
The shop back home had 1 of those AR looking shotguns in the back room for about 2 years before the guy got everything straightened out. But she had know the guy for some time

 

[Brutus57]

Bear with me her.....so the FFL ultimately can sell it on consignment or to a person who passes a bgc? Or hold it till the Internet buyer straightens out his/her BGC? Oh, what a wonderful world we live in!

Brutus Out

 

[phatdoughnut]

So if he gets denied then he has to tell the FFL if he wants to sell it on consignment or I guess he could sell have a friend come buy it. Then you get into straw purchase areas
But the FFL can't really say much about who he sells the gun to if that person can pass the BGC.

sells it to a friend, friend passes bgc and Keeps it. Not straw purchase correct?
If he sells it to said friend with intentions of having said friend sell it back to him, straw purchase? But good thing we have private bgc now. Disaster avoided.....

 

[Norm0931]

Relax people:

Step 1) Dealer runs background check on buyer. Marks 4473 "Private Party Transfer"
Step 2) If buyer passes check, dealer follows appropriate procedure for taking the gun in to their logbooks
Step 3) Dealer logs gun out to buyer and turns over firearm.

If the buyer does not pass the background check they do not take in the firearm, therefore the seller has maintained possession. All this rabble rousing over a non issue. This has been stated in no less than 3 threads here.

 

[etrain16]

Relax people:

Step 1) Dealer runs background check on buyer. Marks 4473 "Private Party Transfer"
Step 2) If buyer passes check, dealer follows appropriate procedure for taking the gun in to their logbooks
Step 3) Dealer logs gun out to buyer and turns over firearm.

If the buyer does not pass the background check they do not take in the firearm, therefore the seller has maintained possession. All this rabble rousing over a non issue. This has been stated in no less than 3 threads here.

Just to clarify, the OP's question wasn't regarding a private sale transfer, but rather a purchase from an online dealer such as Gun Broker. He is wondering what happens to the gun if the background check doesn't go through. Does the FFL send the gun back to the shipping dealer?

 

[Norm0931]

We actually just had this happen. It was a delay, not a denial, but the purchaser had done his own research and was skeptical he would be approved. We ended up shipping the firearm back. He paid for return shipping. We did offer to sell the firearm on consignment per our typical 10% terms. My shop would not allow a friend of the denied/delayed person to buy the firearm as the image of straw purchasing is just too skewed in that situation. It's putting the business at a risk of being shut down by the ATF for someone who potentially is a prohibited person.

 

[mjbskwim]

And that would be the seller's call there. The seller has no obligation to take the gun back.
If it's a FFL he may or may not care as he can relist on GB,if it's a sellable gun and not something that was on GB forever.
And I understand your shop not letting a buddy buy the gun. Owner's call but hard to prove.
Buddy buyer doesn't ever have to show the gun to the ATF without a search warrant and then he can get it back.HE is at fault if he gives it to the original buyer,really
And it doesn't matter if it's been covered in no less than 3 threds. Sometimes search doesn't show you all you need to answer your question
Like in this case

 

[mjbskwim]

sells it to a friend, friend passes bgc and Keeps it. Not straw purchase correct?
If he sells it to said friend with intentions of having said friend sell it back to him, straw purchase? But good thing we have private bgc now. Disaster avoided.....

So
The only way there is to know if a friend made the purchase is if the FFL told the ATF.
OR does the ATF have that much info on original buyer? That's where it would be sticky for the FFL. IF he knew the 2 and knew that they were a sorted pair
Otherwise there would never be any red flags....giving that the FFL had enough sense to say he doesn't really know if the 2 associate with each other

 

[Brutus57]

Ya'll mean transfer by saying sell? Otherwise it sounds like the firearm in question gets bought twice, 1st on the web and second in the shop?. The local FFL is only Transferring, correct? Playing a little bit of devil's advocate here... And finally once it arrives at the local FFL does the on line seller even care or have any additional reporting requirement beyond gun was sold to someone who passed a BGC?

Thanks for indulging me gents. I am used to the old days where I just walked in and bought a firearm and walked out with it.
Passed BGC for WAC shows. But as we know now, every purchase is a de facto registration.

Brutus Out

 

[Norm0931]

So, say you failed the background. We could sell the gun for you in our store and take 10% (our consignment fee) of the sale price and then cut you a check for the remainder. Or we could ship it back to the FFL that sent it to us.

 

[phatdoughnut]

Also don't forget for company's who are dicks. They may or may not honor their warranty any more because you could potentially not be the original purchaser anymore. That is if you wanted to buy a gun that someone couldn't pass the background check on......

 

[buffalow]

A seller and buyer agree on a deal pending FFL background check. They meet at local FFL, they run the check and it is denied or atleast delayed several days for lack of a UPIN. Seller cannot now get the gun back from the FFL dealer without paying for and passing the background check. He either does that or trusts the dealer to hold the firearm for several days until the buyer is approved. If denied , well , pretty self-explanatory. Correct ? --this just happened today, wow

 

[Alexx1401]

This keeps coming up and It really surprises me it's such a constant "thing". If I buy a gun online I pay. Place ships the gun to dealer. If I get turned down the place who sold me the gun has zero obligation to me. They "could" of course take the gun back but, the dealer who now has the gun, and the place I bought it from, could easily charge any amount of money the thought was "reasonable" for the hassle. I could pay them, or take them to court. Anyone really think anyone in this situation is going to prevail in court? If so I have some TP I will sell you for $5 a roll

 

[Alexx1401]

This reminds me of a place I used to work that you had to pass a BGC. Manger was having a hell of a time getting me a new partner one time. People kept applying, looked good, she would run them and find all kinds of problems. She was both mad at the OT she had to pay me and the cost of the BGC's. I told her simple. Make the applicant pay up front for the BGC. Tell them if they pass they get the money back. Few are going to pay if they know they will not pass. First shop I worked where drug testing was a new thing did this. You signed a form on hire. At the end of first or second day you would be handed a slip to go to "Doc in the box" across the street for a pee test. You had :30 to get there. If you failed they would take the cost out of the check you were going to get for the work you did. VERY few bothered to come to work there and fail.

 

[buffalow]

Oregon and I assume WA, IMO , has all but ruined the private sale market, what a hassle and risk as well now , "they " got what they wanted

 

[Alexx1401]

Oregon and I assume WA, IMO , has all but ruined the private sale market, what a hassle and risk as well now , "they " got what they wanted

Yes they have. I now own more guns than I have ever in my life had at one time due to this. Have many I no longer want but, the selling is such a PITA they sit. One shop here offers to sell for you for 10%. When the market comes back may take a few there to get rid of but it is sad. I all my life enjoyed buying something to try. If I did not like or got tired of it? Sold it and bought something else. This of course did zero to criminals who can get anything they want any time they want