What gun/caliber to oppose an active shooter?

[MarkAd]

You statement about 2 or 3 hits from your weapon might be true but chances are the rounds will affect him, and perhaps give you time to put more in for better effect..

The rest of your post is cow patties and does not account for some many varibles it makes it almost laughable. Things like training, differnces in each persons response to stress.

You statement about a psycho implies that somehow gives a shooter some magical ability to ignore hits on himself is, well, Ignorant.

 

[Dinged]

To answer the original question, I carry either a G19+1 spare magazine or a G26+1 spare magazine daily, depending how I'm dressed, so that is what I'd have on me.

Anyone at the range can shoot well and pull a sub MOA group with a handgun in a relaxed, and calm environment, but I've done drills where your adrenaline is going, blood is pumping, you're breathing hard and I can see my accuracy go to hell. Unless I was completely certain I could make the shot, I wouldn't risk it. I would venture to guess that the bad guy would have to be within 7-10 yards for me to think about taking that shot if I was all jacked up. I'd like to get more training that involves shooting in a high stress situation.

That's my personal opinion, my gun is for my safety and my loved one's safety, that trumps all others, however if given the opportunity to take a bad guy down I would take it, assuming I could do it without collateral damage. That's a decision I've made and will stand by.

 

[BillB1960]

Boy, that is some good ole boy gun logic if I ever heard some. Raindog said it so well I'll repeat what he typed:



Statistics bear that fact out repeatedly.

I realize some folks here figure they are real regular Captain Badasses with their micro-subcompact pocket guns or itty bitty 1911s and able to make all the goodenough groupings they could ever dream of from 25 yards out while taking their time against those scary, dangerous paper targets, but your 5, 6, or 7 shots aren't likely to make it all on target in the middle of a kinetic, adrenaline-pumping emergency scenario, and those couple of rounds that hit the bad guy aren't a guarantee to physiologically put him down - especially if he's that special type of psycho that engages in mass shootings.

Statistics however do not bear that out. Statistically the active shooter is most likely to stop the attack and off themselves when faced with significant (armed) resistance. This is one of the reasons why police have changed their tactics and now make entry as soon as they can. This was also shown to be the case at the Clackamas Town Center shooting and the Sandy Hook shooting. They're there to die and not necessarily in a blaze of glory. They've done enough to get a Wiki page and some CNN coverage so it's time to complete the cycle. Not saying this is true in 100% of the cases, it wasn't in Aurora but it does seem to hold true in the majority of cases.

 

[coop44]

Keeping your nerve, and concentrating on shot placement is more important than caliber or weapon.

That being said I normally carry an FNP 45 15+1 capacity, it doesn't hurt to hedge your bets a bit.

 

[ejmpnu92]

Guess it all depends with which you are comfortable with.
When I CC it is with a SIG 239 in 357sig, with 2 extra mags.
When I Open Carry it is a Kimber or a Colt 1911 45acp, with 2 extra mags...

Situational awareness training is helpful.

 

[coop44]

try and stay away from big words here, you will only confuse them. instead of "situational awareness" something like "you gotta have some snap boy!"

 

[Kevatc]

However:

- you'll be jacked on adrenaline
- you're off guard
- you may not have time to come up in that perfect Weaver pose
- Some will be smooth level-headed veins-of-icewater operators, but most will be in holy-crap mode and squeeze off more rounds than they figured

In the perfect world, we'd all shoot a tight group in some criminal's chest, but I suspect that without a significant amount of real-world training (more than a weekend at Thunder Ranch), the reality will be messier.

Not to thread jack but your reasons are why I am concerned with the idea of teachers acting as the first armed response to a school shooting. I believe it would take a lot of training to bring a teacher up to speed to be proficient enough to possibly "go on the hunt" for the shooter.

With that said I am not sure that there is a better alternative save putting multiple armed guards/LEO at every school which is probably impractical.

 

[soulrider]

AH the age old classic debate 9mm or .45acp... what about .40 s&w? hows that for a monkey wrench in the works... lol

 

[jauguston]

I am a older fairly new shooter not having done any shooting since a stint in the Marine Corp in the late 50's-early 60's. I carry a Sig P238 and it surprises me that in all of this discussion of scenarios there has been no mention of the advantage of a Crimson Trace Laser attached to your weapon of choice. Is it that they are not macho? The idea that you do not have to even see your gun sight or your gun for that matter seems like a pretty good idea. You can shoot from a protected hide and reach around the corner with one hand and accurately place a round if you can see the bad guy. The lasers are reliable and the Lasergard I have on my Sig is activated by simply squeezing the grip-no extra motion to turn it on. What is not to like about that?

Jim

 

[raindog]

I am a older fairly new shooter not having done any shooting since a stint in the Marine Corp in the late 50's-early 60's. I carry a Sig P238 and it surprises me that in all of this discussion of scenarios there has been no mention of the advantage of a Crimson Trace Laser attached to your weapon of choice.

+1. I like CT (and they're a local company) but of course there are other good brands.

The advantage of a quality laser like CT are numerous. You may not have time to come up into a good sight picture. You may have to shoot around something. You may be flat on your backside. You may instinctively look at the thing attacking you and then have to take a moment to find your sights. Etc.

Train without it for sure, but I find having one a comfort.

 

[DireWolf]

G20

 

[xd45acp]

Ok, so your advise is to stop, draw your handgun, get a firm weaver stance, get your breathing under control, line up sights on target and fire when ready? I'd have to go with Will_Power on this 9mm vs 45acp debate.

If there is an active shooter situation with a .223/7.62x39 (not to mention his potential load-out of mags), I'm not engaging him with my 15 or 31 rounds of 9mm (14+1 loaded and occasionally a 16 round backup).

You don't need 14 + rounds unless you plan to miss alot. All it takes is one well placed shot. Life as you know it may come down to two skill sets some day
sight picture and trigger control!

 

[Ron S]

What if the guy is carrying his AK to the gun shop at the mall? Granted if he has a brain it would be in a case but not everyone has brains. I would check to see if he had a magizine in it first and if so would line up the shot from a secure spot if possible and then tell him to put the rifle on the ground. Explaining my intent if he moved at all. This is a bad situation to be in. If he does not attemp to attack you or others and you shoot you can and will most likely be held liable. If you wait for him to bring the barrel up in an offensive move you are putting yourself and others at risk. This is one of the reasons I am not a LEO today. Your damd if you do and damned if you dont.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Lasers are nice tools for some scenarios but should not be depended on. Batteries and switches fail. My wifes CT grip on her S & W Bodyguard revolver failed (The switch) If you can't do it without them, don't try it with them

I used to sell CT so I'm not anti lasers. Have one on my daily carry pistol, but would only use it to fire from cover or concealment. It has an on/off switch and normally is off

 

[jauguston]

My Crimson Trace Lasergard does NOT have a on/off switch. There is a pressure sensitive button on the front of the grip. A normal firm grip turns it on. I would not have a laser that I had to turn on with a switch before it would work on a carry gun unless that was all I could get. If I have to use my carry gun in a personal defense situation it is going to be a VERY stressful situation and I don't want to have to try and remember I have to turn it on before it will help me. Bless Crimson Trace for designing a laser that doesn't take any conscious thought to activate. I have a switch type laser that came on my P238 in a drawer that I likely will never use. If Crimson Trace made a Lasergard that would fit my Ruger SR22 there would be two switch type lasers in the drawer.If you register your Crimson Trace laser with them they will give you a new battery every year. You cannot depend on anything to always work. I would much rather have a laser thay I believe will work than know a laser I don't have will for sure not work.

Jim

 

[Riot]

You statement about a psycho implies that somehow gives a shooter some magical ability to ignore hits on himself is, well, Ignorant.

Mental state is HUGE for violent encounters. Motivation, determination and adrenalin can mean winning or losing. Haven't you ever heard of stories of people not knowing they've been shot or hit until a minute or two after the last round was fired? Not knowing their leg was broken or their shoulder was dislocated until they tried to run or lift something heavy?

<broken link removed>

How about this guy? No armor, no PCP...just a motivated, unstable man with a gun. He was shot 17 times and was still fighting the police when they attempted to restrain him.

 

[MarkAd]

Mental state is HUGE for violent encounters. Motivation, determination and adrenalin can mean winning or losing.

When you make arguments like this you are clear and concise. However being psycho does not mean you have any of the above characteristics anymore then being a member of Congress makes you wise.
And you are correct the mind does some, well, mind blowing things.

 

[Vantage]

Life as you know it may come down to two skill sets some day
sight picture and trigger control!

Or....

Chew your food properly.. and don't gulp your food.

Or...

Keep your hands on the steering wheel and turn your wheels in the direction your sliding...

Or...

Stop, Drop, and roll....

I guess that last one is three skill sets. Or maybe it's just one.

 

[coop44]

Mental state is HUGE for violent encounters. Motivation, determination and adrenalin can mean winning or losing. Haven't you ever heard of stories of people not knowing they've been shot or hit until a minute or two after the last round was fired? Not knowing their leg was broken or their shoulder was dislocated until they tried to run or lift something heavy?
<broken link removed>

How about this guy? No armor, no PCP...just a motivated, unstable man with a gun. He was shot 17 times and was still fighting the police when they attempted to restrain him.

Police fired 107 rounds with 17 hits, now that's a real confidence builder. Makes you wonder what neighborhood pets, old ladies, kids, parked cars, suffered LE hits. The only consolation is apparently the BG didn't hit any of them.

 

[Callidus98]

From most accounts that I have heard, these active shooter cowards will shoot themselves at the first sign of resistance. So you might try pointing your finger at them and saying "bang".