What do you use?

[clarthom]

well if it doesn't work the three inch slug following it will

 

[Blitzkrieg]

#4 magnum load (41 pellets) in the chamber, 00~ 12 pellet loads after that

 

[chemist]

For pete's sake, will you look at all these expert opinions that you've collected in only couple weeks!

Take a look at the Box O' Truth:
The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration Testing
It's amazing to me that shot size did not affect wallboard penetration at short range. Now you could claim that a fleshy target will respond differently, but the point is that at home-defense ranges there's so little spread that the whole pattern goes into one very messy hole. I wouldn't choose birdshot, but at 5 yards there isn't going to be a significant difference between #4 buck and 00. Heck, I load 'em all, starting with the smaller grades and working my way up to a slug for the grand finale. Slugs are totally different than any grade of shot of course, but unless my target is a bear or a car windshield I don't see the point.

 

[pioneer461]

One of the buck shots. I already have a good supply of 00, so that's what I'd use.

 

[NWnewguy]

I go with #2 or #4. I have seen 00 go easily through multiple sheets of dry wall and that's not what I am looking for in my house. Outside of the house would be a different story. Just as a side note wrap a 5 gallon bucket filled with water in some old clothes and then shoot it with any 12ga shell down to 2 3/4 #8 and you will be amazed at how effective a shotgun is at close range (obviously this is in no way scientific, but it is pretty fun and eye opening for people that don't get to shoot much).

 

[mjbskwim]

It would at that, but beyond that by a few yards? Idunno:

Soooo,your hall way is longer than 45'? That's a big house.
Then you can afford sentries.

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

I have double 0 or tripe 0 loaded, the triple aught only because it was cheaper than the 00. I don't have neighbors close (200+ yards) so I don't have to worry about "over" penetration, just dropping whoever is stupid enough to come into the house past the dogs.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Soooo,your hall way is longer than 45'? That's a big house.
Then you can afford sentries.

My split level is 2000 sq feet and the shot from my bedroom door to the fireplace upstairs is at least 38 feet. Most birdshot loads would be near worthless at that range

 

[mjbskwim]

My split level is 2000 sq feet and the shot from my bedroom door to the fireplace upstairs is at least 38 feet. Most birdshot loads would be near worthless at that range

Sure it is.
Y'all are missing my point.I wouldn't use bird shot.I was merely stating it would be MORE than adequate at "indoor ranges". And I will stick to that.

Any shot load at indoor ranges will be small enough and pack a big enough wallop to deter an attack.Some of those bbs will hit the face.I don't know about you,but if someone shot me with a shot gun,or even in my direction,I'm leaving the household.

My parents had a 3000+- foot split when I was in high school.There wasn't any where in the house that bird shot wouldn't have worked just fine.

Again I would use either BBs or slugs,but rely on my G22 instead.

 

[DeanMk]

Re: Birdshot for home defense use.

Ok, this is to all the "Birdshot Nay Sayers" out there, who think its worthless for home defense use.

I challenge any of you to be shot at from 30 feet with a Rabbit and Squirrel load of #8's, and you tell us how much it didn't hurt and how well you could function, after being shot.

I create this challenge, because the idea that birdshot is useless for home defense and will not do injury is preposterous.
Of course it will injure a person. Heck, at 30 feet, the muzzle blast alone will probably still have some effect!

The idea isn't to kill the person, only to convince them to get the heck out of your home.



Dean

 

[billdeserthills]

Re: Birdshot for home defense use.

Ok, this is to all the "Birdshot Nay Sayers" out there, who think its worthless for home defense use.

I challenge any of you to be shot at from 30 feet with a Rabbit and Squirrel load of #8's, and you tell us how much it didn't hurt and how well you could function, after being shot.

I create this challenge, because the idea that birdshot is useless for home defense and will not do injury is preposterous.
Of course it will injure a person. Heck, at 30 feet, the muzzle blast alone will probably still have some effect!

The idea isn't to kill the person, only to convince them to get the heck out of your home.



Dean

I sure hope you can afford a protracted lawsuit, cause with this in mind, that looks where you are headed, Dean

 

[mjbskwim]

You should always shoot to "stop the threat"
Yeah right.
Dead men tell no tales................. or file law suits

If you don't shoot to kill,you will have your guns taken from you.
Just how I look at it.

 

[DAB]

Pass the popcorn please.

380 auto and an AR 15 with Hornady 55 Gr. V-Max.

 

[ch139]

What home defence shot size would you choose for your 12 ga. shotgun?

Since you ask, I keep Federal LE 00 Buck (low recoil with the Flight Control Wad). The pattern through my CYL bore guns is superb.

Use what fits your needs and what shoots best in your gun(s) every gun/load/shooter is different. Maybe just me, but I believe a good light on your HD shotgun(s) is just as important as the load you choose to charge it with.

With choosing your load, keep in mind your environment. If (heaven forbid) you ever do have to use this weapon, the aggressor may well be wearing thick clothes or multiple layers of clothes that, as has been pointed out, may indeed diminish the effectiveness of your chosen fodder.

 

[BAMCIS]

There's so much BS on this thread that you need wings to stay above it.

Not to throw cold water on this thread, but some of you may want to be mindful of what you put into writing.

Do you think that if, God forbid, you did shoot a bad guy that things being said here would not be uncovered by either the DA or the dirtbag's attorney? Or if the dirtbag died his family's attorney?

I'm trying to say you do not want to give the opposition council any argument(s) of any predisposed malace on your part. This especially true with home defense. For example, can you imagine all the smoke the opposition's council can create if his client was shot with a reload or a mixture of loads, buckshot, slugs and/or birdshot. Doesn't matter if round was reloaded to factory specs or not.

The first question would be asked, "Mr. Defendant, where did you learn that?" Putting a mixture of different loads in the same gun or using reloads? The implication would be clearly made.

"Yes, my client, Mr. Dirtbag, should't have been in Mr. Defendant's house at 2am, but he wasn't going to hurt anyone he was just looking for food". Or, "He mistakenly went into Mr. Defendants home thinking it was his girlfriend's or his brother's or ........"

"The fact is Mr. Defendant had his gun loaded with......Well, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we don't know. It was a reload. And what's more just take look at this internet forum Mr. Defendant belongs to. He says in his own words that he going to shoot to kill. In other words he was looking to KILL somebody....... Anybody......... What's more is he prepared for a long long time before my poor client stumbled into Mr. Defendant's house by mistake."

An attorney could go on and on and on. The fact that poor Mr. Defendant who was innocently trying to defend what he thought was a threat is irrelavant.

The best thing to load your home defense gun(s) with are what your local police are carrrying. Just check with them. Or better yet talk to your local police department's gun guru(s). By their nature they love talking guns stuff and even more love helping out Joe Citizen. (Helping out citizens is part of their job) See what they are carrying and/or recommend and you have your answer. Or even email them. Then it's documented your attorney can more effectively argue that you had no malace.

(I know this thread had nothing to do with reloads, but I used it in attempt to illustrate my point.)

Just my two cents. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Re: Birdshot for home defense use.

Ok, this is to all the "Birdshot Nay Sayers" out there, who think its worthless for home defense use.

I challenge any of you to be shot at from 30 feet with a Rabbit and Squirrel load of #8's, and you tell us how much it didn't hurt and how well you could function, after being shot.

I create this challenge, because the idea that birdshot is useless for home defense and will not do injury is preposterous.
Of course it will injure a person. Heck, at 30 feet, the muzzle blast alone will probably still have some effect!

The idea isn't to kill the person, only to convince them to get the heck out of your home.



Dean

I won't publicly state I want them dead for breaking into my home and endangering my life and that of my wife, etc..but if they were a stalker or otherwise had repeat criminal intent, even against others, I wouldn't shed a tear if they indeed died

No offense intended but it's a bit delusional to think that muzzle blast at 30 feet is going to affect anyone.. a good heavy load of well-aimed buckshot will

 

[Blitzkrieg]

There's so much BS on this thread that you need wings to stay above it.

Not to throw cold water on this thread, but some of you may want to be mindful of what you put into writing.

Do you think that if, God forbid, you did shoot a bad guy that things being said here would not be uncovered by either the DA or the dirtbag's attorney? Or if the dirtbag died his family's attorney?

I'm trying to say you do not want to give the opposition council any argument(s) of any predisposed malace on your part. This especially true with home defense. For example, can you imagine all the smoke the opposition's council can create if his client was shot with a reload or a mixture of loads, buckshot, slugs and/or birdshot. Doesn't matter if round was reloaded to factory specs or not.

The first question would be asked, "Mr. Defendant, where did you learn that?" Putting a mixture of different loads in the same gun or using reloads? The implication would be clearly made.

"Yes, my client, Mr. Dirtbag, should't have been in Mr. Defendant's house at 2am, but he wasn't going to hurt anyone he was just looking for food". Or, "He mistakenly went into Mr. Defendants home thinking it was his girlfriend's or his brother's or ........"

"The fact is Mr. Defendant had his gun loaded with......Well, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we don't know. It was a reload. And what's more just take look at this internet forum Mr. Defendant belongs to. He says in his own words that he going to shoot to kill. In other words he was looking to KILL somebody....... Anybody......... What's more is he prepared for a long long time before my poor client stumbled into Mr. Defendant's house by mistake."

An attorney could go on and on and on. The fact that poor Mr. Defendant who was innocently trying to defend what he thought was a threat is irrelavant.

The best thing to load your home defense gun(s) with are what your local police are carrrying. Just check with them. Or better yet talk to your local police department's gun guru(s). By their nature they love talking guns stuff and even more love helping out Joe Citizen. (Helping out citizens is part of their job) See what they are carrying and/or recommend and you have your answer. Or even email them. Then it's documented your attorney can more effectively argue that you had no malace.

(I know this thread had nothing to do with reloads, but I used it in attempt to illustrate my point.)

Just my two cents. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

WA State has castle doctrine law.. no prosecution if they commit the crime of house breaking and are inside when you fire

Now a civil court is a different matter, they can $crew you over even if you do everything right, and there are ways to protect against this in advance. I suggest you all figure out to read between the lines here and get a good estate attorney, ASAP

 

[WIRED tactical]

I could have sworn that WA was a stand your ground state not a castle state. Meaning you have to believe you or someone else is about to be hurt by the offender before you are free to use force. A stater told me that he can have your tv in his hands but you cannot fire till he raises that tv above his head to throw it at you or drops it and goes for something in his pocket etc. That is what I was told. However no one could verify you followed the rules if the offender is killed...

But to answer the topic I use a folded sig556 loaded with hollow point 55gr.

 

[BAMCIS]

I could have sworn that WA was a stand your ground state not a castle state. Meaning you have to believe you or someone else is about to be hurt by the offender before you are free to use force. A stater told me that he can have your tv in his hands but you cannot fire till he raises that tv above his head to throw it at you or drops it and goes for something in his pocket etc. That is what I was told. However no one could verify you followed the rules if the offender is killed...

WA State has castle doctrine law.. no prosecution if they commit the crime of house breaking and are inside when you fire

Now a civil court is a different matter, they can $crew you over even if you do everything right, and there are ways to protect against this in advance. I suggest you all figure out to read between the lines here and get a good estate attorney, ASAP

I agree Blitz. Don't confuse criminal law with civil law.

Maybe your slug or buckshot or bullet went through four walls, accross the street and killed a little old lady on food stamps while she was feeding her 27 cats.

Yes, a dramatic little story for effect. My point is even though the Grand Jury says you are not criminally responsible a civil jury could award Mr. Dirtbag, or cat lady's family your house in the end for the reasons above.

All I'm saying is to be very, very careful in what you say. Even on this board. It could come back to haunt you if SHTF.

Oh and if it did hit the fan and you dropped someone for ANY reason don't say a word to the cops until you talk to a competant attorney. Just say to the police "This is a very tramatic event. Things are still spinning around in my head. I'll be glad to speak to you in a few days." A good cop will understand and even support that. Especially if you are Joe Citizen. This is exactly why officers are rarely interviewed right after a use of force incident.

Back to the original subject matter of this thread: Again, find out what the local cops are carrying and/or recommend and go with that.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I could have sworn that WA was a stand your ground state not a castle state. Meaning you have to believe you or someone else is about to be hurt by the offender before you are free to use force. A stater told me that he can have your tv in his hands but you cannot fire till he raises that tv above his head to throw it at you or drops it and goes for something in his pocket etc. That is what I was told. However no one could verify you followed the rules if the offender is killed...

But to answer the topic I use a folded sig556 loaded with hollow point 55gr.

You're mixing apples and oranges because both laws exist here but have different rules of the road..and IMO the Stater does not know the law in WA State. The very act of housebreaking itself proves intent to endanger your safety and you may then fire. If anyone has alternate legal proof please present it

On the street it's the "reasonable man" doctrine/Stand Your Ground Law where if you believe someone is about to harm you or others you may use appropriate force, and you may use that force even to defend strangers (but be very sure of what is actually happening, first, not everything is as it appears)