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While packing out quarters of a bull Elk, I was confronted at the gate by three people and it turned ugly. It was the last quarter to pack thankfully, and the animal had been taken approx. 2 miles in and was taken on Miami timber land. They were all males, around their mid 20's. All 3 were the long haired, wired glasses, scraggly bearded types that you would expect to be at a street protest, not out viewing "their" wildlife, as they put it. I was told that I must feel real big for killing this poor 4 point, and how would I like it if they did that to me?
At this point apprehension set in to a whole new level. I tried the approach that the animal would be fully used to feed my family, and that it was legally harvested using legal methods, and that they needed to stand down and back off. The really mouthy one picked up his ski pole/hiking pole and approached me from the back of his Subaru with the pole in both hands as if to use it on me.
I then did the only thing I felt I could, I pulled my rifle from my shoulder, loaded it and as calmly explained that this was going to stop now. I told them that I had far more respect for the animal that I had just shot, quartered and pack to my rig than I had for them at the moment, and that if they escalated this further, then I would be forced to defend myself and the results would be a big mess for all of us.
There was a few more words exchanged, and yes they were all taking pics of myself and rig, and stated they were calling the police, to which I strongly advised them too, and told them it was they who were violating the law. Fortunately, a neighbor from down the road (this was just behind my property) showed up a little late for the pack out, but in time to witness the end of the confrontation. He advised them also that they were way out of line, and that he, not being as old or restrained as I, would be glad to "explain" it further to them if they wished. Thankfully they decided to leave, all the while calling me a murderer, killer and others. I called the local stated game officer as a preemptive move and truthfully explained what had taken place. He asked if they had assaulted me physically in any way, I explained that I hadn't let it come to that, but that it had been very close.
He took their info, we had a few chuckles and all was well for all involved.

The reason I tell this, is to say that while doing something I knew to be completely legal, they found it to be unethical, distasteful, against their morals and values. If one doesn't agree with the laws or lack there of, do something to change them. To confront someone in a challenging manner because you disagree with their "legal" right to life, liberty and happiness is to invite and invoke a response you may not have expected or looked for. While I wouldn't hunt in the Salmon river estuary that is not to far from my home, as many Elk tend to congregate there in the fall, and I feel that it's an area that should be given wildlife sanctuary status, I would never confront the people that choose to do so. In my eyes, it should be an Elk viewing area, as many people pull over on hwy 101 to do so, it's surrounded by paved roads, and is a small section that is boarded with homes, but that is in my eyes. Until the local law is changed, those that choose to do so, are free to harvest them there. I'm sorry for the rant, but some folks take their personal beliefs, values and morals and try to force others to capitulate to their standards, whether or not others have the legal rights and freedoms to do otherwise. Just my own opinion mind you.
John.

You are a better man than I, John.
 
I wonder if the kid will pursue legal action against those folks? I hope he does.

Just as what the kid did was not illegal neither is the overwhelming opinion of the community choosing to voice it. There is nothing in the law that says any of the local dive shops or operations have to serve him. There is nothing legal that says people have to support what he did. Not exactly sure what kind of legal action there is to take.

The good news is this kids actions will change the legal status. The community just did not ever dream that a law was needed to say that ethically it was wrong so soon the law will. Same reason that we have TOO many other laws on the books.
 
To say that this kid has not been the victim of harassment or intimidation is laughable. You're absolutely right, there are too many other laws already we don't need anymore. In my opinion had that Octopus not had a constant flow of divers trespassing on its natural environment its natural instincts would have kicked in and it would have swam away, so the real criminals here are the divers that treat wild sea life like their own personal pets. The only way to truly protect these precious creatures is to ban all diving in that area. Now that felt good. I like pushing my beliefs on others!
 
To say that this kid has not been the victim of harassment or intimidation is laughable. You're absolutely right, there are too many other laws already we don't need anymore. In my opinion had that Octopus not had a constant flow of divers trespassing on its natural environment its natural instincts would have kicked in and it would have swam away, so the real criminals here are the divers that treat wild sea life like their own personal pets. The only way to truly protect these precious creatures is to ban all diving in that area. Now that felt good. I like pushing my beliefs on others!

That dumb kid just learned that actions have consequences.
 
To say that this kid has not been the victim of harassment or intimidation is laughable. You're absolutely right, there are too many other laws already we don't need anymore. In my opinion had that Octopus not had a constant flow of divers trespassing on its natural environment its natural instincts would have kicked in and it would have swam away, so the real criminals here are the divers that treat wild sea life like their own personal pets. The only way to truly protect these precious creatures is to ban all diving in that area. Now that felt good. I like pushing my beliefs on others!

I gotta say Keystir, while I may not always agree with what you have to say about a subject, I do admire the way you get your point across.
 
To say that this kid has not been the victim of harassment or intimidation is laughable. You're absolutely right, there are too many other laws already we don't need anymore. In my opinion had that Octopus not had a constant flow of divers trespassing on its natural environment its natural instincts would have kicked in and it would have swam away, so the real criminals here are the divers that treat wild sea life like their own personal pets. The only way to truly protect these precious creatures is to ban all diving in that area. Now that felt good. I like pushing my beliefs on others!

I am saying the original divers that made contact simply talked to the kid and then posted their experience. I am sure there are some that have taken it too far as in all cases. If there are individuals that have broken the law (because that is all we seemed to be worried about in this thread) they should be held liable.

There are about 2 dozen established dive sites in the NW part of our state. There is a whole lot more ocean then that. Like the hunting groups that are strong on ethical hunting the divers here are strong on conservation of the ocean. They do clean ups, public awareness, safety, teaching new divers to respect the environment underwater, ethical game taking, ect. That sounds a lot like all the things we preach on here on land, how is it wrong underwater?

So since many hunting groups even game departments establish feeding stations, conservation areas, parks, ect does that mean they are all criminals too?

I guess I just dont understand how things are are encouraged on land are shunned underwater.
 
I have been trying to find a way to convey the issue here in a way that makes sense in hunting. Many people are calling what he did as "hunting in a petting zoo" which paints a great image but is not true.

This is a post that has come as close to any for a good example. These are not my words but a copy of the post found in my original link,


XXXX since you brought up the falconry subject I'm going to run with that. Hear me out. Imagine if you will a public park where people come to feed the squirrels and pigeons. As someone who has a vested interest in preserving hunting rights and good public relations how would you feel if a fellow falconer showed up at a busy park with a gos and started taking squirrel and pigeon right in front of the general public who came there to enjoy the urban wildlife? And then when confronted by upset park-goers he got belligerent and spouted off that it was a legal activity (which it is) and he'd be back for more. Don't you think the park-goers would be upset? Wouldn't you expect them to be vocal? That is what this thread is. People went to the park to enjoy the urban wildlife and saw it killed. They have a right to be upset.

Now, the other group in this story are the sportsmen. Think about how the falconry community would react to one of it's own acting this way. There would be a tremendous concern over reputation damage and the harm it could do to the sport, correct? Do you not think the falconry community would get as riled up and intervene? They would because being a good steward of your sport is important.

Taking game in an area enjoyed by the general public is such poor form that no group of sportsmen would tolerate it and the public should not have to put up with it either.
 
I am saying the original divers that made contact simply talked to the kid and then posted their experience. I am sure there are some that have taken it too far as in all cases. If there are individuals that have broken the law (because that is all we seemed to be worried about in this thread) they should be held liable.

Posting all of someone's personal information on the internet is more than sharing an experience. The Kid did -not- break the law, wether some divers agree with what he was doing or not. Posting personal pictures, and vehicle license plate information was going too far.
 
Posting all of someone's personal information on the internet is more than sharing an experience. The Kid did -not- break the law, wether some divers agree with what he was doing or not. Posting personal pictures, and vehicle license plate information was going too far.

The person was in public and the LAW has long held that you have no expectation of privacy in public. Then the kid himself posted several of his own pics on FB prior to making it private. NO laws broken so it HAS to be fine.........

Other then the pic with the truck what personal info did the first person post? Was any of the information obtained illegally?
 
The person was in public and the LAW has long held that you have no expectation of privacy in public. Then the kid himself posted several of his own pics on FB prior to making it private. NO laws broken so it HAS to be fine.........

Fine, he was in public and the LAW has long held that you have no expectation of privacy.

He was hunting in an area where it was not illegal to hunt in. "NO laws broken so it HAS to be fine........"

The point is that posting someone's information all over is more than sharing an experience. It was a "Find this guy and shut him down!" from the start. It was NEVER a "Saw something interesting today..." conversation, as you alluded it to be.
 
Absolutely horrible behavior on the part of both parties here, however the "hunter" is within his rights, and the observing divers actions are IMHO "criminal".

Never ever pass at the chance to keep your mouth shut... Now If I could just heed that advice myself....:s0008:
 
I sure hope we never see a thread on this site again about unethical big game hunting. We all know if it is legal then there is never anything wrong with it :(


Edit to be clear: All sarcasm of course.
 
The point is that posting someone's information all over is more than sharing an experience. It was a "Find this guy and shut him down!" from the start. It was NEVER a "Saw something interesting today..." conversation, as you alluded it to be.

And calling for public shunning/denial of service/boycott is illegal?

Get over it, if you guys are going to stick to the "well, what he did was legal" card; then be logically consistent and allow it to the two men who confronted him and posted pictures taken in public.

You guys pitch and moan about overbearing laws all the time, largely because many of them don't reflect public opinion. Well guess what? The public/community opinion here (and by 'here' I mean the real world, not NWFA) is that this kid is an as.shat and he should deserve some recognition for it.

Community Justice FTW!
 
IMO You guys are more harassing to the wildlife than this kid. Sure popular dive site 'whatever' it has nothing to do with ethics..
He bought licenses and tags Through our government to do so. That money goes back into our wildlife. He went in found his animal and killed it.. you can not relate this to big game hunters because we don't have activist locations were people go to see wildlife that isn't national parks. Maybe you guys should dive a real nature preserve like the Galapagos or the GBR. You will probably find people hunt there too ILLEGALLY, so then you can really have something to bubblegum about and ethics and yada yada
 

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