National What do you think a SCOTUS win on "assault weapon ban" will look like?

[Stomper]

What does a pro-2A ruling from SCOTUS look like?

Hardcore Pornography.

Unable to define it, but I know it when I see it.

Or feel it....

 

[leadcounsel]

What SHOULD happen is that the SCOTUS grow some balls and do the right thing and recognize that the right to keep and bear arms is NOT TO BE INFRINGED UPON. It's expressly stated. Any useful military infantry arm should be protected against infringement. That is unrealistic, so they should set a very strict scrutiny on any law that poses to restrict it (even though I disagree with that). So that hand grenades, fully automatic guns, and very dangerous or unusual designs or narrow classes of persons are restricted (violent felons).

Obviously they want to ignore that language. With the current composition of 4 antis, 4 pros, and 1 swing, I'm not confident even a good ruling will occur.

I think we can best hope that we get a 5/4 or 6/3 Court in the near future. And that several cases are joined that look at cosmetic features (pistol grips, collapsing stocks, sizes, bayonets, flash hiders) and some functionality like magazine capacity - and that they apply the actual purpose for useful military arms. And that they tell the states that the states MUST follow the 2A and cannot restrict these designs. They could go further and remind the states that most also have similar state Constitutional language and they should adhere to their own state laws as well.

 

[leadcounsel]

Unfortunately, they can only hear one specific case, No where have I found a larger issue brought to them for hearing, maybe that needs to change some how! Ideally, a best case would have a full accounting of the 2nd as written, and the ruling would uphold it and remove any further challenge by the states! What that looks like I cannot say, but I bet a case could be made that brings the entire 2nd to focus!

That's not exactly true. Many cases are enjoined when they are similar or related issues for judicial efficiency. For example, Heller was about 20 cases IIRC. As was McDonald.

 

[Knebel]

Here is the passage in question:

"In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a 'shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length' at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment, or that its use could contribute to the common defense."

It was not the weapon that failed the test, it was Miller. He was dead. The proof was never offered that such a weapon is useful to the common defense. The court was not going to assume it so, (judicial notice).

The obvious implication of such a test is this: They would have taken it for granted that the American service rifle, the semi-auto Garand, was easily within the ambit of 2A protection. The semi-auto 1911 certainly was, as was the M1917 revolver. The slam fire capable M1912 shotgun would have been as well. Of course, the M1903 Springfield rifle was still fielded too, as a sniper rifle in the Army and as still standard issue to the Marines and Navy.

And as Heller has already stated, rights aren't frozen in time. The successors of these firearms in service in 1939 all have ironclad 2A protection today.

North Vietnamese Fighters carried Sawn Off double barreled shotguns. So historically speaking it is within military equipment.

 

[tiggers97]

Highland Park AWB was not heard by the SCOTUS before Scalia passed. He joined Thomas in a dissent on why the court should have heard it. (Basically the lower court judge let it stand because he felt it was within the legislatures power to make such laws, if only to give the public calm thru a false sense of security). Heres a link to the dissent I think some here will find interesting.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/15-133_7l48.pdf

 

[Diamondback]

North Vietnamese Fighters carried Sawn Off double barreled shotguns. So historically speaking it is within military equipment.

As did our Marines in WWI... funny how the Krauts thought nothing of inflicting flamethrowers and poison gas on others, but Got Teh Butthurtz at the idea of being shotgunned like animals.

 

[Knebel]

As did our Marines in WWI... funny how the Krauts thought nothing of inflicting flamethrowers and poison gas on others, but Got Teh Butthurtz at the idea of being shotgunned like animals.

I didn't know that!? to be fair, i don't think it was very humane either to drop napalm on people or blow someone up with phosphorus....

But so yeah...sawn off shotgun, I mean isisn that a great home defense firearm too?

 

[Stomper]

As did our Marines in WWI... funny how the Krauts thought nothing of inflicting flamethrowers and poison gas on others, but Got Teh Butthurtz at the idea of being shotgunned like animals.

I used to pack a 12ga while guarding outside the USAREUR CINC's residence in Heidelberg... it's true, Germans will "drop their guts" at the notion of a 12ga pointed their direction... can't say I blame them.

Pistols put holes IN people.
Rifles put holes THROUGH people.
Shotguns shred and tear holes FROM people.

 

[Diamondback]

Oh, I'm a firm believer in fire as a weapon... for both area-of-effect and psychological reasons. After the first guy you barbecue gets seen by his buddies, they aren't so eager to come and play... it also has a demoralizing effect back home when they see their kids coming home Crispy Crittered.

"War is Hell."--William T. Sherman

 

[awshoot]

North Vietnamese Fighters carried Sawn Off double barreled shotguns. So historically speaking it is within military equipment.

There were even commercial products available at the time Miller was decided when "highway robbery" wasn't a mere euphemism:

 

[Diamondback]

Also, the Thompson was originally marketed for banks and corporate security as an "Anti-Bandit Gun"... even the New York Times owned a few.

 

[GWS]

I dont think it will stop anything. from what I am seeing, they dont seem to bother with the Constitution when they are writing laws, they just write them, pass them and wait for someone to blow alot of money to challenge them.

And THAT'S how we should beat them. Pass a law that says if you create, sponsor or vote for a law that is found unconstitutional, then you Mr. & Ms. Legislator, will pay all of the court costs out of your own pocket for violating your oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America.
Wow I'd love to hold the government toilet paper concession if we could ever get that to pass.

 

[Diamondback]

And THAT'S how we should beat them. Pass a law that says if you create, sponsor or vote for a law that is found unconstitutional, then you Mr. & Ms. Legislator, will pay all of the court costs out of your own pocket for violating your oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States of America.
Wow I'd love to hold the government toilet paper concession if we could ever get that to pass.

And this would immediately be found unconstitutional on 1st Amendment grounds... it's a good idea and the argument would be utter BS, but that's the card they'd play and their black-robed pets would make it stick.

 

[GWS]

And this would immediately be found unconstitutional on 1st Amendment grounds... it's a good idea and the argument would be utter BS, but that's the card they'd play and their black-robed pets would make it stick.

Dude! You're harshing my mellow.

 

[Diamondback]

My preference would be similar but that instead of court costs and civil action they stand trial for Treason and face the Constitutionally mandated penalty. I get where you're coming from, but gotta temper things with reality... it's about as likely as getting to knock up three consecutive Playmates of the Year.

 

[Knebel]

Oh, I'm a firm believer in fire as a weapon... for both area-of-effect and psychological reasons. After the first guy you barbecue gets seen by his buddies, they aren't so eager to come and play... it also has a demoralizing effect back home when they see their kids coming home Crispy Crittered.

"War is Hell."--William T. Sherman

IDK man...maybe... but what if your dad/grandad/son/daughter will be that guinea pig and comes home crispy and you know they died (if they were lucky enough) in great agony and pain? I mean...ive been around some army bases here and seen some crazy baconheads.... cant imagine they feel very good looking in the mirror. I dont know but if my son comes home one day looking like Freddys nightmare, Id be darn upset with the people who exposed him to that in the first place.