What Do I Need To Know About Derringers?

[Certaindeaf]

I'd just get the cheap piece a crap.. you'll probably only shoot it five times and never carry it.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Derringers are a blast.

I just sold one of mine chambered in 22mag. It was a blast to shoot and they were accurate "enough". I could put both rounds on a pie plate at 35 feet. I still have another chambered in 22mag, one in 22lr, 38 spcl, and one in 45lc/410. I've had my eye on one that's chambered in 5.56 that looks like a hoot and a half.

They're great inexpensive fun and much better for self protection than harsh words and a sharp stick.

 

[billdeserthills]

I have a few of the American Derringers, and an old high standard in 22 mag. The High Standard in 22 mag is
the cheapest derringer I will shoot again. I had an older 38 Sp Davis derringer from years ago, it was def a left hand
gun (I'm right handed) Every time it was fired it seemed the hinge was looser than before.
I saw my Dad shoot a rattlesnake with a High Standard 22 Mag years ago, I think the snake actually tried to bite the snake shot
and his head was left hanging by a thread of skin. Dad's next shot got that & then we stuffed the head in an old snakehole & took
the body to the leather maker for $25. Def good backup, but it is about the same size as a little .380

 

[nastybynature]

Wow I just looked up American Derringer's website, and you can get them in 10mm, 44 mag, and... 45-70!

Their website also shows model M1223ST which is chambered for .223.

 

[Liberty97045]

I've decided I want a Derringer. I think I want a cheaper, .38 special. Accuracy and recoil don't matter, cause if I need it, it will be very close range, and I'll be "in the moment", and not notice the recoil. What is there to know before I buy one?

I have been CCH since 1976 and I have carried tiny, small, medium, large and ridiculously huge. I hate dressing for the gun and now lean towards smaller pocket guns like the derringer.

The derringer is a fine option for a pocket gun but I would consider three things:

First will it "print" in your pants pocket? That is will it be obvious that you have a gun in your pocket?

Second, will it be upright and within reach when you need it. A pocket or wallet holster will help with both situations so look at what is available for the model you are considering.

Third, Derringers are single action which will slow you down in an emergency. You have to shift your grip as you cock it and then again to aim.

Now for an unsolicited opinion.
I carry a KelTek P3AT (380) with a pocket clip. I can clip it onto my front jeans pocket and it looks like I am carrying a knife. If I am confronted I can casually hang my thumbs in my pockets but really be gripping my gun. From this position I can draw without having to put my fingers inside my pocket. I also recommend the magazine extension which will allow you to get a third finger on the grip. The gun can handle +P and is super simple. The have also tapered the outlines to reduce the outline of the gun.

 

[soberups]

When your life is at stake and you are amped on adrenaline, is it realistic to think that you will have the manual dexterity that is required to draw, manually cock and then accurately aim and fire a single-action derringer?

In a true life-or-death situation, you will be lucky to get off even one shot and that shot will be (a) inaccurate to to the minimal sights and poor grip ergonomics and (b) underpowered due to the ballistic disadvantages inherent in the short barrel. Even if you are able to re-establish your grip on the gun fast enough to cock the hammer and get off a second shot...that shot will almost certainly be your last. The odds that you will be able to successfully break the gun open, extract the spent shells, reload, and then get back into the fight are somewhere between slim and none. If you can conceal a derringer in your front pocket then you can also conceal an airweight .38+P snub or a compact .380 in there, and either of these choices gives you the ability to rapid fire 5 or more aimed shots as fast as you can pull the trigger. There enough affordable, lightweight and easily concealed guns on the market now to make the derringer functionally obsolete.

 

[Benny503]

My wife carry this, when she feel the need it in her hand and no one know she have a loaded handgun till she pull the trigger. It bang overtime and it hit body size target at 5 feet for her very easy. We hope she does not have to use it.

 

[jim97701]

with all the small and light weight offerings available today in .22LR, .380, 9mm and .38 spl that pack much more firepower than a 2 shot derringer I cannot see why anyone would opt to carry one for protection. In my opinion derringers are a novelty and not something to intrust with saving your life in a tight situation. Its sort of like what would you rather carry, A Ka-Bar or a plastic picknick knife?.

 

[Benny503]

From what she told me, she does not like to rack the slide. She only weight 100 lbs her hand are small. Revolver 357 and 38 are too bulky for her purse.

 

[trainsktg]

I carried a smaller .38/.357 derringer for the first few years I cc'ed. I even used it once when a big Rotty jumped a front yard fence and came charging down the street at my wife and I one evening. (I didn't shoot, but stuck it cocked in his nose for the two minutes it took for the owner to realize what was going on and come fetch him.) In the end I deemed it to be too heavy for the limited firepower and went with a much lighter and IMO much more useful 5-shot NAA in .22 mag, which has been my deep carry piece for maybe 18 years now.

(And Benny, if your wife is going to carry .22 mag, I would also suggest her ditching that 2-shot and going with the smaller NAA 5-shot.)

Keith

 

[soberups]

From what she told me, she does not like to rack the slide. She only weight 100 lbs her hand are small. Revolver 357 and 38 are too bulky for her purse.

One of the small Berettas with a tip-up barrel (21A bobcat .22, 950 Jetfire .25 or a 3032 Bobcat .32ACP) would be a better choice, she would have 7+1 firepower without ever having to worry about racking a slide. And instead of carrying it in a purse that could get snatched or misplaced, have her try out one of the FlashBang molded plastic concealment holsters that attach to the front of her bra. There are better options for her than carrying a derringer in her purse.

 

[fireninja13]

Thirty years ago I purchased a stainless double barrel American Derringer chambered in 45/410 with 22 caliber inserts. Paid $135 out the door. Have shot rabbits, grouse, snakes and carried it for self defense. Buy quality, mine is still like new.

Bond Arms makes a heavy duty gorgeous 45 lc/410 g. About $300.

I always fancied that High Standard .22 magnum.

To throw out another option, check out the NAA mini-revolvers. They're only available in .22 (LR or magnum) but you get 5 shots out of them with decent accuracy. I can get all 5 shots on a man-sized target at 7-10 yards while shooting very fast.

A while back I went through a "derringer phase" and I have literally owned, fired, and CCed every gun mentioned above.

The American Derringer and the Bond Arms are both solid and well made -- "real" guns so to speak. They are rather similar as they are both modernized versions of the classic Remington Model 95.

The Bond is a solid beefy chunk of CNC machined steel -- the machining and finish is excellent and the mechanism is stout and robust. It slightly smaller than a S&W J-frame, and actually bigger than my Micro Desert Eagle -- and far heavier than either one at 22oz with a 3" barrel. Mine was a .45 LC/410, and I actually shot it quite a bit -- due to the weight it was quite shootable, even with fancy Hornady defensive .45 LC and PDX1 ,410. Carrying it in a pocket holster was like having a steel brick in your pocket -- it was small but it was HEAVY! It was also plenty accurate if you figured out the trigger -- here is a video of the legendary Bob Munden hitting a balloon at 65 yards with a Bond derringer:
Bob Munden Hits the target from 65 yards - YouTube
This is plenty of proof that accuracy issues with this kind of gun are all in the hands of the shooter.

The American Derringer is about 2/3 the size and weight of the Bond which made it a much better carry piece. My AD was a older M1 in .357 magnum -- it was about the smallest way to put a .357 magnum in your pocket, but certainly not as light as a S&W scandium J-frame. The AD was clearly handmade, and mine (which I got NIB with heavy factory grease still on the innards) had small cosmetic imperfections and visible tool marks, none of which detracted from its overall appeal or basic functionality. Shooting it in .38 spec was perfectly manageable -- the only issues were getting a decent grip and learning the trigger. .357 Magnum was a lot less fun. . . Did that once.

The major functional differences between the two are the more modern mechanisms in the Bond's closure latch and safety. The AD is a closer replica of the old Remington 95, and uses a rotating pin with a cut-out to secure the barrel, whereas the Bond features a much more solid spring loaded catch actuated by a lever. The AD barrel wobbled a bit when closed due to the catch, but the Bond was rock solid. The other difference is that the Bond has a modern rebounding hammer safety plus a cross bolt, whereas the AD has a locking half-cock. The Bond is much safer, but given the SA nature of the guns, the AD's safety is adequate.

Eventually I ended up trading them both away as I never ended up carrying them -- a heavy gun with only two shots in Single Action just didn't make much sense for defensive carry purposes, even if the two rounds were serious stoppers.

The Hi-Standard .22 Magnum is an excellent gun. It is the flattest most "invisible carrying" gun I have owned. They were designed to be usable without the grips, and when you remove them the gun is absolutely flat and about 1/2" thick. Pretty light weight too with an alloy frame and steel barrel. And, they are well made -- although not as nice as the Bond, AD, or NAA guns. The real advantage of the Hi Standard is the Double Action trigger -- it can be deployed fast. It was the only thing like it up until the Double Tap came out, and it is much smaller than that goofy thing. Mine lived in my boot for a long time until it was replaced by a NAA .22 Magnum. And currently lives in the left breast pocket of a good friend's Sheriff's Deputy uniform. The real issue with the HS is finding one -- they haven't been made for over 30 years, and a well preserved Magnum model can be hard to come by.

The NAA revolvers are remarkably well made and surprisingly tiny -- the machining and finish are top quality. There is really nothing else in the same category with them in terms of price to quality that I have found in the world of handguns. I have only ever been interested in the .22 Magnum versions, which are a bit larger than the .22 LR guns, but the ballistics of the .22 WMR are much superior. .22 Mag is not perhaps the world's greatest man-stopper, but is plenty effective if you have good shot placement. My 4" barrel "Earl" lives in my right boot every day and is good for 1400-1500 FPS with the right ammo. My 1" barrel Pug disappears in the right front pocket of a pair of jeans or shorts, or in any coat pocket. You could CC the Pug in swimtrunks, and forget you're carrying it. And they are reliable and accurate. I don't think of them as my primary carry pieces, but I'll admit I carry them more than anything else I own -- it makes it easy to ALWAYS have something with you.

Hell, I wrote you a short book. Hope it helps!

 

[erudne]

My experience is limited to a few models:
the old Rem. pattern Davis types which are very dangerous, even with expert usage and the old High Standard types which I carried in SE Asia.
From Personal Experience I can say that the HS Derringer in 22 Mag is by far the better of them all

 

[fireninja13]

I guess the other thing to keep in mind re derringers is something that applies to all small guns: small guns (and especially the very small ones) are much more difficult to shoot accurately than larger guns. You have terrible sights, short sight radius, miniscule grips, and lots of recoil -- so you're basically squinting at tiny little sights, only a couple inches away from each other, trying to get a solid grip on a small funny shaped handle good for maybe 1.5 fingers of grip, and manipulate a weird heavy trigger -- Every gun on that list has a funky trigger: the Bond and the AD are heavy downward diagonal pulls, the NAA is a serrated stub and also a diagonal pull, and the HS has literally the worst trigger of any gun I have ever shot -- best described as "a trigger pull like a Craftsman stapler." And then there is the sharp recoil getting pushed into your hand by those tiny funky shaped gips. . .

If you want to become adequately proficient with them you're going to have to invest a fair bit of range time and lots of ammo -- and not fun range time either for most of these. Just because you can rock the silhouettes with your 1911 or Glock doesn't mean you can keep it on the paper with a derringer. For most people it is a frustrating experience -- a lot of people blame it on the gun. But, IMHO, the guns are plenty accurate, they are just very difficult to shoot well.

 

[erudne]

I guess the other thing to keep in mind re derringers is something that applies to all small guns: small guns (and especially the very small ones) are much more difficult to shoot accurately than larger guns. You have terrible sights, short sight radius, miniscule grips, and lots of recoil -- so you're basically squinting at tiny little sights, only a couple inches away from each other, trying to get a solid grip on a small funny shaped handle good for maybe 1.5 fingers of grip, and manipulate a weird heavy trigger -- Every gun on that list has a funky trigger: the Bond and the AD are heavy downward diagonal pulls, the NAA is a serrated stub and also a diagonal pull, and the HS has literally the worst trigger of any gun I have ever shot -- best described as "a trigger pull like a Craftsman stapler." And then there is the sharp recoil getting pushed into your hand by those tiny funky shaped gips. . .

If you want to become adequately proficient with them you're going to have to invest a fair bit of range time and lots of ammo -- and not fun range time either for most of these. Just because you can rock the silhouettes with your 1911 or Glock doesn't mean you can keep it on the paper with a derringer. For most people it is a frustrating experience -- a lot of people blame it on the gun. But, IMHO, the guns are plenty accurate, they are just very difficult to shoot well.

I know of one HS 22 mag that dropped 2 VC that were guarding a "Disarmed Airman" as the Jolly Green flew in for a rescue, back in the day. No Davis Gun could have done the same. Honestly I hate the Davis Derringer

 

[fireninja13]

I know of one HS 22 mag that dropped 2 VC that were guarding a "Disarmed Airman" as the Jolly Green flew in for a rescue, back in the day. No Davis Gun could have done the same. Honestly I hate the Davis Derringer

I agree that the Davis/Cobra stuff is garbage. The HS that I had was really accurate and great to carry -- only thing I didn't like was the trigger and the limited capacity of 2 shots.

 

[erudne]

I agree that the Davis/Cobra stuff is garbage. The HS that I had was really accurate and great to carry -- only thing I didn't like was the trigger and the limited capacity of 2 shots.

I have given you all of my limited knowledge. You must now go forth as men have always done and gain what knowledge there is to learn, on your own. I pray that you have not been limited y a Liberal education!

 

[billdeserthills]

I hear a lot of guys say they don't like the sights or the accuracy of a derringer, one thing to keep in mind with the .410 shell is the huge amount of ammo choices available for the gun.
Even a blind person can hit a target with a .410 in #4 shot, you'll know you are shooting a hefty cartridge when you feel the mule kick. Far as the NAA guns go I recall talking with a guy who was set upon by several criminals. He had one on the NAA guns in 22lr inside his pocket & one of the perps managed to knock him to the ground. Just before they could began kicking him he managed to retrieve the tiny gun & the criminals couldn't run away fast enough. Size doesn't seem to matter as long as you have a gun & you can get to it!

 

[fireninja13]

Even a blind person can hit a target with a .410 in #4 shot, you'll know you are shooting a hefty cartridge when you feel the mule kick.

Birdshot from a short barrel .410 handgun does have a lot of spread, but it doesn't have much penetration -- about 3 to 4" of penetration in ballistics gel w. #4 shot, and less with #7 1/2. It would make a serious mess of exposed skin, but from a short barrel its not got much stopping power out past a few feet from the end of the barrel, and questionable effectiveness through heavy clothing.

There are however some excellent defensive rounds specifically made for .410 short barrel handguns, including Winchester's PDX1, which is basically a modernized versions of the "Buck and Ball" of the 1700s, which has heavier buckshot mixed with lighter birdshot. Another good one is Hornady's The Triple Defense.
<broken link removed> -- keep in mind that many derringers actually have a shorter barrel than the test guns here and thus worse ballistics.

 

[Trailboss]

From what I've seen don't get a derringer, get a LCP, P3AT or the like, they are generally smaller and lighter than most derringers and give you 6+1 instead of 2 shots.

My American Derringer can put 8 .34 caliber balls into a target in less than a second. 2 shots out of a 410 derringer equals 8 hits.