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what constutes a 80% handgun

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by oknow, May 11, 2015.

  1. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    if you sell just the lower portion of a semi auto handgun or the upper portion would that fall under the 80% criteria

    then if you lost the other portion of the handgun and the person that bought the other half found it ????

    just being a smart-ash :s0111:
     
    ZA_Survivalist likes this.
  2. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    The part with the serial number is the gun, even if it's stripped bare.

    80% refers to an unfinished paperweight, not how much of the firearm is present.
     
    hker71 likes this.
  3. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    80% means that 20% of the machining on the receiver is not done yet. It is completely unable to function and cant even be assembled at this point. at 80% or less, the ATF does not consider it a firearm.

    You can order 80% completed parts and then finish the rest yourself and there are no serial numbers required or background checks to purchase.

    https://www.atf.gov/content/contact-us/pressroom/receiver-blanks-Q&As

    the only part that gun stores sell that requires a background check is the 100% finished receiver. For example, you can buy every single part of a 1911 except the receiver without a background check. Same for AR15's.
     
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  4. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    thanks
    thanks for the link
     
  5. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    i could be mistaken but I think the 20% portion that is unfinished must involve the trigger and sear mechanism...
     
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  6. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Not quite if I understand it correctly. The definition of "firearm" according to the feds is:

    Firearm. Any weapon, including a starter gun, which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or any destructive device; but the term shall not include an antique firearm. In the case of a licensed collector, the term shall mean only curios and relics.

    Having bought a lower or two for handguns, as well as other components such as complete slides, I can tell you only the lower has ever required an FFL, yet other parts do often carry the same serial number, such as the barrel or slide, depending on the gun. So I would say it's not necessarily the serial number'd part, but the lower/receiver that is regulated, and which is why it's always receivers you find available as 80% complete. You know, for those that are good at metal working, maybe even have a proper shop ;););)

    Heck, you can even buy everything you need to build a gun from scratch, save for the lower, on the anti-gun site Ebay! No mags above 10-round capacity on there or 80% lowers on there though.

    Short funny story about Ebay. A while back I was looking for a G21 complete slide once and found one used for a decent price, including (5) standard capacity mags. I made a bid and was about to win when the post disappeared. Ebay spotted the listing for the "high capacity magazines" and pulled it. I knew how to reach the seller and asked him to re-list it again with a 'buy it now' price and include the mags, but don't list their capacity or show it in the photo. He put it back up and I bought it, "hi-cap" mags and all. Good times messing with the anti-gun folks!
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2015
    Stomper likes this.
  7. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    Ok, let me rephrase that. If a firearm only has a single serial number, the part that is bares it is considered the firearm. If it bares multiple serial numbers, the part most likely to fit the definition of receiver is most likely the firearm.

    The system is arbitrary, In the case of a AR-15 the lower with the serial number is considered the firearm however it is the upper receiver that most closely represents the ATF definition of receiver. Of course in the case of a home built gun they expect you to match existing conventions. If 1911's have a serial number on the frame then the fame you build is considered the firearm. You can't put a serial number on your slide and call that the firearm.
     
  8. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    ;)So if I filled a Glock with hot glue or some other easily removable but still challenging type of resin to which had to be machined what then?

    Its essentially inoperable until they get all the solid material out.. Or would an 80% only constitute for pre built firearms not decommissioned ones?
     
  9. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    The trigger cavity can never have existed. For precedence check out the ATF case against Ares Armor.

    They had some poly 80% lowers where the FCG pocket was a different color polymer. The ATF claimed they where firearms because the cavity had been created during the manufacturing process.
     
  10. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I figured that's probably what you meant, but thought I'd add clarity for other readers. But leave it to the guvment to get all wonkey and inconsistent with their own definitions :confused:
     
  11. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    ATF have guidlines for how to destroy a receiver. This is how many 80% import rifle kits are made now. They import a destroyed receiver with all the parts. Then you replace the receiver and build yourself a new gun

    But the receiver has to be destroyed to the exact letter of the ATF guideline.
    Like this UZI kit. you can see the receiver is chopped up with a plasma torch

    uzi-kit-with-demilled-rec-uf.jpg
    So if you wanted to sell a already completed gun as an 80% you could not do it. You would have to destroy the receiver back to a 0% and start over from scratch.
     
  12. jricker3

    jricker3 Klamath Falls, OR Active Member

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    Then you would have a buggered Glock that would still require a background check.o_O
     
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  13. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    The long and short of it is once it becomes a firearm the only way to unfirearm it is to destroy it.
     
  14. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    Even then selling a destroyed firearm could land you in BGC land if not "properly" destroyed
     
  15. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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  16. deshoots

    deshoots central oregon Member

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