What can you tell me about this Colt AR15 I'm buying?

[Joe Link]

And it might be the photos but that birdcage looks out of place somehow. The finish doesn't match and it looks longer than a mil-spec cage. Am I wrong here?

Yeah it doesn't look like a standard A2 flash hider to me. In the first pic it looks like it's one of those solid ones 3-4" long...

Looks a little mysterious.
As mentioned, I think I see an A2 upper receiver (integral handguard)
This would usually be issued with a rifle barrel, so no M4 cuts
The barrel however, looks like a "civvy M4" (16" w/M203 cut-out)

If you have M4 ramps on the barrel extension and no M4 cuts (to match) on the upper receiver, that would be odd.
A "civvy M4" barrel is usually found on an A4 flat top receiver. Like the LE69xx series.

Also looks like a Hogue grip.

Is the receiver extension milspec ? (rolled threads, not cut threads)

Colt has produced a bunch of different models and it takes an expert to decipher the code sometimes.
Far from an expert, but it doesn't look to be the advertised vintage and may even be a Franken built on a Colt lower.

AR15.com has a bunch of info in their Retro sub-forum.
(pics with casting marks, proof marks etc)

I agree with you on the barrel, odd. I'll have to check the receiver extensions.

I think that means "chrome lined, magnetic particle tested"

That's a lot different than meaning 'Colt'. Any way to verify it's a Colt upper?

 

[DirectDrive]

That's a lot different than meaning 'Colt'. Any way to verify it's a Colt upper?

AR15.com has a bunch of info in their Retro sub-forum.
(pics with casting marks, proof marks etc)
Forum member "Augee" is the resident Colt historian and can usually debunk anything as long as good pics are put up.

 

[BillM]

When did Colt start putting forward assist on Civilian models? Most of what I can find is saying
early 1980's on the Model 6500/Sporter II.

 

[Kruel J]

Ah! And that one has the round FA button. Earlier models had an oval shaped one. Busted!

 

[Lilhigbee]

Look here for date info;
Serial Number Data
Some pictures from my 1977 SP-1;

Marking on upper receiver;


Marking on bolt carrier;

Inside FCG area;

Barrel marking;

Inside grip; That is a C next to the screw.

 

[DirectDrive]

When did Colt start putting forward assist on Civilian models? Most of what I can find is saying
early 1980's on the Model 6500/Sporter II.

I don't think any civvie models were "slick side".
M16A1 was the first model to feature FA and that was early on.

 

[DirectDrive]

Look here for date info;
Serial Number Data
Some pictures from my 1977 SP-1;

Marking on upper receiver;
View attachment 348273

Marking on bolt carrier; View attachment 348274

Inside FCG area;
View attachment 348275
Barrel marking;
View attachment 348276
Inside grip; That is a C next to the screw.
View attachment 348277

Excellent documentation !

What is your barrel profile, barrel twist and M4 ramps or no ?

 

[Unka-Boo]

I don't think any civvie models were "slick side".
M16A1 was the first model to feature FA and that was early on.

SP-1s were slick side....there's a ' 77 vintage carbine sitting at NW Armory right now if you wanna touchy feely. I came real close to buying it today...

 

[Unka-Boo]

Might be a different upper on a Colt lower....anodizing doesn't match, looks like it might have the adapter front pin..( Colts use a different size front pin ).... need better close up pics

 

[DirectDrive]

SP-1s were slick side....there's a ' 77 vintage carbine sitting at NW Armory right now if you wanna touchy feely. I came real close to buying it today...

Must have been built with an early upper.
FA came out in '67.
Did the lower have a fence ?

 

[DirectDrive]

So we have a documented '77 SP-1 with an A1 rear sight.
And in Joe's pic I think I see an A2 rear sight.

Could be some forgery (or mis-remembering) going on.

 

[Joe Link]

Thanks for all the info guys! Great pics @Lilhigbee.

I'm thinking there's no way the upper could be from the 70's. The only Colts I can find from that era with an M4 cut have 14.5" barrels.

 

[Unka-Boo]

Must have been built with an early upper.
FA came out in '67.
Did the lower have a fence ?

You are confusing military guns with civilian models.

 

[jbett98]

I thought that Colt lowers in the seventies were marked as SP-1's.

 

[Lilhigbee]

Excellent documentation !

What is your barrel profile, barrel twist and M4 ramps or no ?

A2 barrel profile, reduced diameter between the front sight and the flare for the flash hider.
Twist rate appears to be 1:14, with the brush method.
Standard feed ramps.
No FA.
@Unka-Boo, what are they asking for the SP-1 at NW Armory?? I'm thinking of selling mine.

Feed ramps;


Receiver markings;

 

[DirectDrive]

You are confusing military guns with civilian models.

Um no.
Skepticism with these is healthy. Make sure you know what you're buying.
There's multitude of legit models/variants and there's a bunch of ways to build a clone.

 

[jbett98]

Here's my original SP-1

 

[Joe Link]

So I just got more pics. From the markings it does look like it's a Colt upper and barrel.

It's too bad it's not a 'matching gun'. I wonder what the value is...

 

[IronMonster]

Colts will command a premium of course but it is a buyers market for AR's with many selling for half what they did a few years ago.

5 years ago that was probably an $1800 rifle, two years ago I suspect a $1000 rifle, today I would guess $600-$800

 

[Joe Link]

Colts will command a premium of course but it is a buyers market for AR's with many selling for half what they did a few years ago.

5 years ago that was probably an $1800 rifle, two years ago I suspect a $1000 rifle, today I would guess $600-$800

Yeah that's about what I was figuring price-wise