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What all does an Oregon CHL cover anyway?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by spengo, Aug 20, 2009.

  1. spengo

    spengo GLORIOUS CASCADIA Active Member

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    Some noob questions on interpreting Oregon concealed carry laws.

    1. Can I carry an automatic knife concealed if I have a CHL?
    2. Can I carry an AOW such as an AR pistol with a vertical foregrip? Another thread said it counts as long as it isn't designed to be shoulder fired.
    3. I can keep a loaded pistol in my car. Can I keep a loaded rifle in the trunk of my car too?
    4. What about daggers and balisongs (also what makes a dagger a dagger and not just a bigass fixed blade knife anyway?)
    5. Destructive device? You never know when that flashbang grenade might come in handy. :cool:
    6. SBR?

    From what I could tell so far, the answers to 1 and 4 are no ('cuz knives are so much deadlier than guns amirite), and 2 is "it depends." 5 and 6 I'm guessing are also a no, but unless I missed something I don't see destructive devices explicitly forbidden. 3 I have no idea.
     
  2. paulncharly2572

    paulncharly2572 Salem, OR Member

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    Regarding the 1st part of question #3,you need to be careful about this. If you have a CHL and have a gun(loaded or not) concealed within the vehicle,and you have a passenger who does not have a CHL,that person can be charged with possession of a concealed weapon;whether they knew it was there or not.Really,really not good if that person happens to have an old felony.Ladies who may have a handgun in their purse need to be careful for the same reason.Even if that purse is right next to her!
     
  3. OFADAN

    OFADAN Brownsville, OR Well-Known Member

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    I might suggest you seek out professional assistance through a competent trainer, school, or attorney. Do you really want to obtain legal advice from "Gunslinger.45" off a forum? I can see it now...defendant arguing to the jury that he/she thought it was "okay" because buckshot from the NW forum said it was legal.

    Not being ugly or gnarly...just coming from years of experience in dealing with these situations...also "prevention" is the operative word here. If you obtain competent advise it will help you make better informed decisions. I'm dealing with a woman now who didn't listen to competent advise and is in deep you know what legally. It can get very ugly in the "real" world...so do yourself a favor, invest a few bucks in getting the best advise you can afford. It will be money well invested in the long haul.

    There are way too many gray areas and things to consider beyond just blanket answers which is the best anyone can do here.
     
  4. NK777

    NK777 West of Portland Member

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    1. I don't know about an automatic knife? assume your talking about a switch blade or something here but a folding or fixed blade knife can be concealed with out a CHL.
    2. Yes if it's a pistol and you want to attempt to conceal carry it you can. You can't however carry a shotty, rifle, or carbine.
    3. You can carry a loaded pistol in your car but I don't think your allowed to conceal a loaded long gun in your trunk. You can technically carry a loaded long gun in your car without a CHL if it is in plain view but I wouldn't because your just inviting thieves.
    4. I believe there is a size break where they classify the knife as a dagger, short sword etc.
    5. I've never considered carrying one so I have no idea but my gut says no you can not legally conceal a grenade in your vehicle or on your person.
    6. See answer 3
     
  5. country boy

    country boy portland area Member

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    I agree with OFADAN, you should ask an attorney or a trainer. It's just too risky taking advice from some unknown man/woman on a forum.

    country boy
     
  6. spengo

    spengo GLORIOUS CASCADIA Active Member

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    By automatic yes I do mean switchblade.

    I don't mean that I actually want to CC a grenade, it was just something I was curious about because I couldn't find anything that said no.
     
  7. ob1

    ob1 49th parallel Well-Known Member

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    This isn't rocket science. Pull out your permit and read it.

    It says....Concealed HANDGUN License. Not rifle, not knife, nor bazooka or submarine*. It covers your weapon that meets the legal and practical definition of a concealable handgun, nothing else, period. If you are caught trying to conceal anything else, you might as well flash your American Express Card.

    This should have been the first thing that was mentioned in the class you took to get that license. If it was not, you should get your money back and seriously look in to taking another one, perhaps by one of the accredited sources mentioned by ofadan.

    +1 On the comment about convicted felons. If a felon is discovered in a car that has a weapon stashed in it, they are most probably headed back to free room and board. It will not matter that they "didn't know about it". The law is quite clear on this (ORS. 166.250.sC). A convicted felon cannot have physical access (riding in the same car qualifies for this) to a firearm, if they do it's another felony. The only thing to do is see that this doesn't happen, when in doubt, tell your passenger that you are carrying a concealed weapon in the car, if they are an ex-felon, they will know what risk they are taking.

    ( * if you do try concealing your submarine in public, make sure your periscope isn't exposed )
     
  8. jeddedia

    jeddedia Wilsonville, Oregon, United States Member

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    There is nothing in ORS about this. Your passenger can not get charged for unlawful posession of a concealed weapon if you have a VALID CHL and you have a concealed weapon in YOUR car.

    I'm not going to go telling everyone that gets into my car I have a concealed weapon either, so there should be no reason for a cop to write them up unless they found the gun, waved it out the window and made Officer Barney spill his coffee all over the danish...:bluelaugh:
     
  9. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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  10. drand

    drand Stayton Member

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    I wouldn't want to be the one to test this. As I understand it from an attorney who does give seminars on concealed carry in Oregon people have been charged in this circumstance and convicted. Because of this I am continuing to try and convince my wife to get her CHL so we never have a problem.
     
  11. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Let me get this straight, you're saying a person carrying concealed with a CHL can't have any passengers in his/her vehicle ? I will say this, I was pulled over for a traffic violation with my 18 year old son in the truck, I handed the officer my ODL and my CHL, I was sent on my way with a warning, wasn't even asked if I was carrying .......:paranoid:
     
  12. drand

    drand Stayton Member

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    The way that it was explained to me is if you have a CHL and a gun in the glove compartment and a passenger who does not have a CHL. The passenger could, according to the attorney be cited because they can access the weapon and it is concealed.

    I don't think that they can cite a passenger when you have the gun on you as only you have access to it but it sounds like it is in a location in the car where both of you have access it could be a problem.
     
  13. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    This is why I always refer people to the Oregon statutes, no matter what anyone, attorney, police officer, or trainer says it's the law and only law that matters in court.
     
  14. jagerMR

    jagerMR Hillsboro Member

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    this

    it can be interpeted many ways, it only reads one way
     
  15. Chee-to

    Chee-to Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I just emailed http://www.oregonfirearms.org/faq/ and received this opinion



    I believe people can be "charged" with anything. But I have never seen any case law where a person could be "successfully" charged with this.

    It sounds completely nuts to me, but I have seen courts do weirder stuff. But even if the person were charged, which I think is not likely, they would still have to prove he knew the gun was there. See below.

    Kevin Starrett.


    This refers to non CHL holders..
     
  16. SKN

    SKN Keizer, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I know an attorney also who defended the spouse of a CHL holder and who was the sole passenger. The spouse was arrested for posession of a concealed handgun, contained in the glovebox of their vehicle, while the CHL holder was the driver. The point, at that time, was if you are a CHL holder and your passenger(s) is not, the handgun had to be on you. My first comment after hearing that account was that somebody in the car must have failed the 'attitude' test.

    The Oregon State Supreme Court within the past 3 months or so has come out with a somewhat related case law decision, involving an ex-con in 'knowing posession' of a holstered handgun present in a trailer home, hung over a chair and visible. The ruling, as I understand it, declared that 'knowing posession' had to be something more than mere presence. The case citation escapes me at the moment.
     
  17. s_ribs

    s_ribs Tigard, OR Member

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    That's going in my signature. :D
     
  18. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    1. you can carry an auto knife so long as it isn't concealed.. as stated, the CHL doesn't effect this 166.240 Carrying of concealed weapons.
    2. an AOW isn't gonna be a "handgun" under the law. an AR pistol is, however. just don't put a VFG on it.
    3. 166.250 Unlawful possession of firearms. (1) Except as otherwise provided in this section or ORS 166.260, 166.270, 166.274, 166.291, 166.292 or 166.410 to 166.470, a person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a firearm if the person knowingly:

    (a) Carries any firearm concealed upon the person;

    (b) Possesses a handgun that is concealed and readily accessible to the person within any vehicle; or

    (c) Possesses a firearm and:

    (A) Is under 18 years of age;

    (B)(i) While a minor, was found to be within the jurisdiction of the juvenile court for having committed an act which, if committed by an adult, would constitute a felony or a misdemeanor involving violence, as defined in ORS 166.470; and

    (ii) Was discharged from the jurisdiction of the juvenile court within four years prior to being charged under this section;

    (C) Has been convicted of a felony or found guilty, except for insanity under ORS 161.295, of a felony;

    (D) Was committed to the Department of Human Services under ORS 426.130; or

    (E) Was found to be mentally ill and subject to an order under ORS 426.130 that the person be prohibited from purchasing or possessing a firearm as a result of that mental illness.

    (2) This section does not prohibit:

    (a) A minor, who is not otherwise prohibited under subsection (1)(c) of this section, from possessing a firearm:

    (A) Other than a handgun, if the firearm was transferred to the minor by the minor’s parent or guardian or by another person with the consent of the minor’s parent or guardian; or

    (B) Temporarily for hunting, target practice or any other lawful purpose; or

    (b) Any citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides in or is temporarily sojourning within this state, and who is not within the excepted classes prescribed by ORS 166.270 and subsection (1) of this section, from owning, possessing or keeping within the person’s place of residence or place of business any handgun, and no permit or license to purchase, own, possess or keep any such firearm at the person’s place of residence or place of business is required of any such citizen. As used in this subsection, “residence” includes a recreational vessel or recreational vehicle while used, for whatever period of time, as residential quarters.

    (3) Firearms carried openly in belt holsters are not concealed within the meaning of this section.

    (4) Unlawful possession of a firearm is a Class A misdemeanor. [Amended by 1979 c.779 §4; 1985 c.543 §3; 1989 c.839 §13; 1993 c.732 §1; 1993 c.735 §12; 1999 c.1040 §1; 2001 c.666 §§33,45; 2003 c.614 §8]


    166.260 Persons not affected by ORS 166.250. (1) ORS 166.250 does not apply to or affect:

    (a) Sheriffs, constables, marshals, police officers, whether active or honorably retired, parole and probation officers or other duly appointed peace officers.

    (b) Any person summoned by any such officer to assist in making arrests or preserving the peace, while said person so summoned is actually engaged in assisting the officer.

    (c) The possession or transportation by any merchant of unloaded firearms as merchandise.

    (d) Active or reserve members of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard or Marine Corps of the United States, or of the National Guard, when on duty.

    (e) Organizations which are by law authorized to purchase or receive weapons described in ORS 166.250 from the United States, or from this state.

    (f) Duly authorized military or civil organizations while parading, or the members thereof when going to and from the places of meeting of their organization.

    (g) A corrections officer while transporting or accompanying an individual convicted of or arrested for an offense and confined in a place of incarceration or detention while outside the confines of the place of incarceration or detention.

    (h) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun.

    (2) Except for persons who are otherwise prohibited from possessing a firearm under ORS 166.250 (1)(c) or 166.270, ORS 166.250 does not apply to or affect:

    (a) Members of any club or organization, for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets upon the established target ranges, whether public or private, while such members are using any of the firearms referred to in ORS 166.250 upon such target ranges, or while going to and from such ranges.

    (b) Licensed hunters or fishermen while engaged in hunting or fishing, or while going to or returning from a hunting or fishing expedition.

    (3) The exceptions listed in subsection (1)(b) to (h) of this section constitute affirmative defenses to a charge of violating ORS 166.250. [Amended by 1977 c.207 §1; 1991 c.67 §36; 1993 c.735 §1; 1995 c.670 §2; 1999 c.1040 §3]


    in other words, there's no law prohibiting anyone from carrying a loaded rifle/carbine in their vehicle. doubly so, since the wording in 250 states "handgun" and then quardruply so since 260 voids the entire statute from application to people with CHLs.

    4. the size of a knife has nothing to do with it's legalness, actually.. a dagger is defined as any double-bladed knife. balisongs and daggers apply to the same regulation as auto-folders, ORS listed above.

    5. good luck..

    6. SBRs are going to fall under the exact same guidelines as rifles, so long as they're registered SBRs. 166.272 Unlawful possession of machine guns, certain short-barreled firearms and firearms silencers. (1) A person commits the crime of unlawful possession of a machine gun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun or firearms silencer if the person knowingly possesses any machine gun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun or firearms silencer.

    (2) Unlawful possession of a machine gun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun or firearms silencer is a Class B felony.

    (3) A peace officer may not arrest or charge a person for violating subsection (1) of this section if the person has in the person’s immediate possession documentation showing that the machine gun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun or firearms silencer is registered as required under federal law.

    (4) It is an affirmative defense to a charge of violating subsection (1) of this section that the machine gun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun or firearms silencer was registered as required under federal law. [1989 c.839 §13a; 1997 c.749 §8; 1997 c.798 §1]


    the only thing the ORS has to say about SBRs.