What 9mm Round

[U201492]

Perhaps trailtrader, since he is in the legal profession can cite a case in Oregon that makes his point. A single case Trailtrader.

If not in Oregon, then how about anywhere. Any state. Cite it.

As far as anyone making a bullet illegal by knifing on it: hah. However, with current technology, factory hollow points are all pretty good. Anyone want to get hit by any of these?



Shop the sales and seal it well if you are thinking long term storage for a SHTF event.

Well Bilcoe, since you missed A)Where I quoted Massad Ayoob and B)International law and C)the entire legal thinking process then you go ahead and do whatever it is you want. You're too lazy to do your own research. You're not smart enough to trust either the firearm's trainers, or smart enough to follow the logic from the prosecutor's perspective. You go ahead and do whatever it is you want and imagine the following on the local television news: GUN OWNER MAKES HIS OWN DEADLY BULLETS- VIDEO AT 6 PM NEWS

You're not getting the part about "Perception is reality". You missed the current discussion where right now in South Africa such bullets when used go from self defense to premeditated murder. Concurrently (that means "at the same time" so you can keep up) Ayoob was in New York discussing the legal ramifications of the very same thing.

I explained to you- in detail- how "This is a self defense round the police use, so I use them too" vs. "I decided to make my own bullets more dangerous than the factory ones the police use, so I'm culpable (that's a fancy word meaning "negligently guilty") according to what my defense attorney is telling me to say".

Here ya go Sugar Britches http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/

So have you chosen a jail name, "Fish?" Maybe "Bylcreame the sugar britches"- something with a western twang?

 

[Martini_Up]

Ben Dover
<snicker>

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Picked up a 50rnd box of Speer 124gr +p, Gold Dots at the gun show on Sunday to try in my new Sig 9mm. These LE loads have an excellent reputation for reliability and bullet performance. I ouched a little at the $36 price tag but after 1/2 box with no failures at all, in a new pistol, I'm kicking myself for not getting the other two boxes he had.

 

[etrain16]

+1 on the Speer, though my current preferred are the Federal HST 124g (#6 on the graphic in Post #38) I would also be good with the low-cost Federal 9BPLE, if I could find any. I haven't seen it available in about a year and a half.

 

[AMProducts]

Well Bilcoe, since you missed A)Where I quoted Massad Ayoob and B)International law and C)the entire legal thinking process then you go ahead and do whatever it is you want. You're too lazy to do your own research. You're not smart enough to trust either the firearm's trainers, or smart enough to follow the logic from the prosecutor's perspective. You go ahead and do whatever it is you want and imagine the following on the local television news: GUN OWNER MAKES HIS OWN DEADLY BULLETS- VIDEO AT 6 PM NEWS

Why are you still debating this? Quoting Massad Ayoob, Mel Tappan, Col Cooper, International Law, or "the entire legal thinking process" has yet to show any definitive proof that a "dum dum" bullet is any more dangerous or deadly than an existing bonded hollowpoint bullet.

Gun owners all over the world have spent millions of hours designing and making "more deadly bullets" many of these have become commercial successes, namely nosler partition, barnes solids, barnes X bullets, or even the current generation of swiss-tech machined bullets (currently offered by grizzly cartridge, cutting edge, and a few other manufacturers).

Also, under the american legal system, you still get your day in court, no one puts your family up against the wall and shoots them. Even if you opened up on a burglar with .50 APIT. No sale...

 

[U201492]

Why are you still debating this? Quoting Massad Ayoob, Mel Tappan, Col Cooper, International Law, or "the entire legal thinking process" has yet to show any definitive proof that a "dum dum" bullet is any more dangerous or deadly than an existing bonded hollowpoint bullet.

*Big sigh* Once again you're "not getting it". Its what the prosecutor will use in court against you.

One simple sentence: "What the prosecutor will use against you in court". Savvy?

Gun owners all over the world have spent millions of hours designing and making "more deadly bullets" many of these have become commercial successes, namely nosler partition, barnes solids, barnes X bullets, or even the current generation of swiss-tech machined bullets (currently offered by grizzly cartridge, cutting edge, and a few other manufacturers).

There is a LOT of difference between a company with millions of dollars, and attorneys on retainer besides being directly in the companies employment, vs. the guy by himself with a computer modeling program. Once again- "Perception is reality". Those companies have millions of dollars in liability insurance- the average household might have a million, perhaps a bit more in an umbrella police that the insurance company WILL NOT want to pay out for CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE.

What this means is, you win in court, the insurance company will pay you- you lose, no insurance payout.

Also, under the american legal system, you still get your day in court, no one puts your family up against the wall and shoots them. Even if you opened up on a burglar with .50 APIT. No sale...

Look- lets cut to the chase. Go look up what happened to George Zimmerman ok? Look at the legal bills, look at how he's hounded out in public- do you REALLY want to be the next media darling like he was?

Hey, if you want to be the next OJ Simpson, or the next George Zimmerman then go ahead- knock yerself out its YOUR life. Just remember- the media is going to ream you. Just remember, your family- ALL OF YOUR FAMILY- that means brothers, sisters, moms, dad, cousins- anyone the media can interview to get an "inside scoop on the thought process's of the killer- video at 6 PM".

How about your kids? Is it fair for them to go to school and be bullied? Seriously?

To have all this fecal mater land on you- all because you wanted to save $10 on making your own "dum dum" bullets rather than buying off the shelf? Seriously?

This topic has been beaten to death- if it's brought up again I'm ignoring it. You do it, your problem- 'nuff said.

 

[AMProducts]

I think you missed the part where I said "dum dum bullets are of poorer quality, and unpredictable lethality" than the off the shelf defensive ammo available. Chances are, the criminal you shoot with them will be testifying at the trial talking about how he's not able to "work" any more as a result of the injuries sustained by your "dum dum" bullets.

As it turns out, I carry a personal liability insurance, it's about $200 a year for a 1m policy.

 

[U201492]

I think you missed the part where I said "dum dum bullets are of poorer quality, and unpredictable lethality" than the off the shelf defensive ammo available. Chances are, the criminal you shoot with them will be testifying at the trial talking about how he's not able to "work" any more as a result of the injuries sustained by your "dum dum" bullets.

As it turns out, I carry a personal liability insurance, it's about $200 a year for a 1m policy.

Sorry- I apologize. I misread it. $200/1 million for an "umbrella" policy? Himmm, that could be inexpensive insurance under the right circumstances

 

[AMProducts]

The bigger deal is, any claim against me goes against my insurance, and the insurance company employs lots of bored lawyers to make these problems go away.

 

[RicInOR]

Insurance -
Check this - found it from Yankee Marshall YouTube Channel

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/membership/

 

[ozmosis]

I would carry what your local Law Enforcement uses for duty ammo. Would also suggest you carry a sidearm from there approved off-duty list too.

The point about Insurance is a valid idea and thank you for the concept, I will be calling my agent tomorrow. $17 bucks a month is a smart investment if things go wrong even if you did right.

 

[RicInOR]

Since we got on the topic of insuance and what if you are in the right, but still have to defend yourself.

Yankee covers this in a 5 min vid:

 

[U201492]

Good job, Ricin! That video explains what I wrote much better than I did- with the same data.

When you get into a gunfight, you're actually in two fights- the actual battle, and then the legal battle. The "Perp" or "Bad DNA" will have some 4th cousin 12th time removed who will sue you for everything you own.

It doesn't cost an attorney anything but time to take it on contingency; you, being the defendant (respondent if its a civil trial) has to pony up between $50,000 to $250,000 in cash up front so you don't become bubba's prison plaything until the trial.

Now do you "get it" Bilcoe?

 

[U201492]

*Said in Ben Steins voice from "Ferris Bulers day off"* Bilcoe,,,,,Bilcoe,,,,,,Bilcoe,,,,,has anyone seen Bilcoe?

 

[Hook686]

I carry 147 grain buffalo Bore https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=120 in my S&W 3913 TSW. Never had a problem with these.