Gun Deals
J&B Firearm Sales
Simply Triggers
Defensive Arts
HighLine Firearms
Advertise on Northwest Firearms
Low Price Guns
Oregon Arms & Ammunition
Oregon Rifleworks
Buster Beaver Cerakote
Sporting Systems

What’s with the 9mm pcc’s and 9mm AR pistols gaining favor for serious work?

Alexx1401

Messages
9,843
Reactions
23,311
It’s probably already been said, but the muzzle blast out of a pcc is significantly less than a .223 chambering with short barrel.

I haven’t shot a shortened .223 indoors without hearing protection, but I know I don’t want to either.
I had not thought of that but that is right. While back I was at the indoor and guy next to me was shooting an AR Pistol. It sounded like a cannon going off next to me in there with me using foam and over the ear muffs both. Damn thing was so loud I was surprised when I saw the brass and realized he was just shooting a .223:eek:
 

Alexx1401

Messages
9,843
Reactions
23,311
:s0054:


This thread....


We are not talking about a 9mm pistol vs a 9mm PCC, we are talking about a 5.56/300blk/7.62 carbine/SBR/pistol vs a PCC
I am guilty here. I refer to my AR pistol I built as a PCC since that's how I use it. I guess because I think of it as an SBR. As soon as I proved it out What I wanted it for was the vehicle. I do not travel where I need to worry about breaking down and running into one of the larger Bears so it is perfect to me. If I run into a "situation" I would feel better with that thing in 9mm than I would with my 1911 in .45 but it's a too each his own kind of thing. I have a couple lowers to make a .223 into either pistol of Rifle but kind of doubt I will bother. Just bought the lowers while I still could.
 
Messages
5,058
Reactions
9,830
So 50 grain at 2200fps huge HP 444 ft pds of energy is bad but 62 grain fmj at 3000 fps is awesome. That means your 556 won't work at 200 yards? Math adds up but doesn't make sense to me as the 9mm isn't going to pass thru at close range & the 556 will & any energy laft that passes thru doesn't count.
Sectional density :rolleyes: Long, spear/spire point round does better ballistically than a short wide trapezoidal round. Edit. For the same weight of 50 grains, +/- 5 grains, comparing a 55 grain 5.56(ish) diameter spire point to a 50 grain, 9mm(ish) diameter handgun round.
 
Last edited:
  • Love
Reactions: wp4

Taco_lean

Messages
3,398
Reactions
7,162
Have you shot all blowback PCC's? I use the term loosely because theres a lot of "pistols" included in the category that within their range shoot as fast and as accurately as traditional 5.56 AR's. I dont see anyone faulting Stribogs or B&T's for their slow rate of fire or accuracy within what a 9mm is capable of. You are never going to shoot anyone at 100 yards and avoid jail time so anything over 20 yards is just bragging rights..
I will be honest, I have not shot many PCCs. But I know all the blowback ones require a large buffer weight, and that = more felt recoil and slower cycling.

Physics is a bubblegum.
 

Alexx1401

Messages
9,843
Reactions
23,311
I will be honest, I have not shot many PCCs. But I know all the blowback ones require a large buffer weight, and that = more felt recoil and slower cycling.

Physics is a bubblegum.
All the blow back designs do of course translate to a surprising amount of recoil. My little Kel-Tec often shocks people when they try it. It it so damn light and the design of the stock makes even a 9mm round hit harder than most expect. When I had the .40 version it was like shooting a bunch of clay with a 12Ga to me. My shoulder would be sore for a couple days. Before I sold it I was looking at some way to make a pad for it. This is one of the things I like a LOT about the SB4 brace. It makes the recoil a LOT more tame on the little shorty I built. Has some "give" to it I guess. The 10mm PCC I have uses standard AR stock. It is easy because of this but when using the better ammo you sure as hell feel it :)
 

po18guy

Messages
1,053
Reactions
2,384
Go back 125-150 years. .44 and .45 were the sidearms of choice. Each of them will do today exactly as much as ever - even more with the advent of better propellants and bullet designs. It is clear that Germany's "bellum" had no Philippine Moros in it.
 
Messages
1,829
Reactions
4,979
I will be honest, I have not shot many PCCs. But I know all the blowback ones require a large buffer weight, and that = more felt recoil and slower cycling.

Physics is a bubblegum.

Here's the buffer on a Ruger PC9 . It does have weight added to the bolt that allows for some movement. Supposedly smooths it out a bit.

boltassemblybreakoutpccharger.jpg
 
Last edited:

Wombat of Doom

Messages
1,459
Reactions
2,853
I will be honest, I have not shot many PCCs. But I know all the blowback ones require a large buffer weight, and that = more felt recoil and slower cycling.

Physics is a bubblegum.
That's why mac 10s cycle so slow.[/sarcasm]

I will point out that one of my guns in 9mm uses a semi version of that action. On an ar essentially unless you have a giggle switch and certain binary triggers excluded, the cycling is not going to effect rate of fire. The action is going to be faster than a human can move.
 
Messages
4,901
Reactions
7,426
I will be honest, I have not shot many PCCs. But I know all the blowback ones require a large buffer weight, and that = more felt recoil and slower cycling.

Physics is a bubblegum.
A well tuned PCC with the right spring and buffer weight has less felt recoil than a comparable 5.56 model of the same gun and will cycle faster than you can pull the trigger. A misunderstanding of physics is also a bubblegum.
 

Taco_lean

Messages
3,398
Reactions
7,162
A well tuned PCC with the right spring and buffer weight has less felt recoil than a comparable 5.56 model of the same gun and will cycle faster than you can pull the trigger. A misunderstanding of physics is also a bubblegum.
A) 95% sure you are incorrect.

B) cycle time is not about how fast you can pull the trigger. Its about the gun getting done moving around so its not affecting your shot as you line up your sight picture and pull the trigger again.

There is a lot going on in that timeframe, both mechanically and mentally, unless you are just holding on amd yanking the trigger as fast as you can?
 
Messages
4,901
Reactions
7,426
A) 95% sure you are incorrect.

B) cycle time is not about how fast you can pull the trigger. Its about the gun getting done moving around so its not affecting your shot as you line up your sight picture and pull the trigger again.

There is a lot going on in that timeframe, both mechanically and mentally, unless you are just holding on amd yanking the trigger as fast as you can?
There is that other 5%. Of course you haven't shot many so that is your area of expertise. There have been a lot of advances in 9mm carbines in the last 20 years. I had colts and rock rivers 20+ years ago that would beat you up. Some of my 9mils now shoot as soft and stay on target as well as an MP5 largely due to buffer and spring tuning. Then you get into the delayed rotary stuff which is pretty cheap if you build it yourself and it's like shooting a 22
 
Last edited:

Taco_lean

Messages
3,398
Reactions
7,162
There is that other 5%. Of course you haven't shot many so that is your area of expertise. There have been a lot of advances in 9mm carbines in the last 20 years. I had colts and rock rivers 20+ years ago that would beat you up. Some of my 9mils now shoot as soft and stay on target as well as an MP5 largely due to buffer and spring tuning. Then you get into the delayed rotary stuff which is pretty cheap if you build it yourself and it's like shooting a 22
Yeah there is that 5%. If they are truly shooting as soft as an mp5 that is pretty impressive.

I'd still prefer a 5.56.... Lol
 
OP
osprey

osprey

Messages
1,879
Reactions
3,895
If I were to build a ar pistol for hd in a pc, it would be a 5” 45 acp with the radial system and a suppressor. I would stoke it with hst 230 gr rounds. If you are going to go subsonic bigger holes are always better. How much are we talking about to put one together @wired ?
 
Messages
4,901
Reactions
7,426
If I were to build a ar pistol for hd in a pc, it would be a 5” 45 acp with the radial system and a suppressor. I would stoke it with hst 230 gr rounds. If you are going to go subsonic bigger holes are always better. How much are we talking about to put one together
.
Speak of the devil. I've got maybe 800 in this one. The 45 stuff isnt as popular as the 9mm for some weird reason. That just means the 45 stuff goes on sale more often. I think I paid $260 for the barrel and bolt combo. You can use any lower made for DI use or a Macon armory conversion for 556 lowers. Mine is a RMW extreme grease gun lower. Its really soft shooting . It wont feed everything but the ammo it likes it really likes.

20200110_143236~2.jpg
 
Last edited:
Messages
5,058
Reactions
9,830
Is the .45 Raptor considered a "pistol cartridge"? :rolleyes:
Supposed to perform same as a .460 S&W (which is a pistol round, huge but a pistol nonetheless )but rimless for AR operation.
Bit spendy; but in concept is pretty cool. Although I know some are gonna ask "what does it do that .458 Socom, .450 Bushmaster and .50 Beowulf doesn't already do?" :rolleyes:
And the honest answer? I myself am not 100% sure, literature on the round claims higher velocities, flatter trajectories and can feed hollowpoints better due to the feed ramp becoming part of the magazines..
 

UPCOMING EVENTS

Oakanogan Gun Show
Oakanogan County Fairgrounds
175 Rodeo Trail, Okanogan, WA 98840, USA
Cerberus Training Group - Run the Gun Pistol
Cerberus Training Group
47 Cattle Dr, Goldendale, WA 98620, USA
Cerberus Training Group - Run the Gun Rifle
Cerberus Training Group
47 Cattle Dr, Goldendale, WA 98620, USA

LATEST RESOURCE REVIEWS

  • 36 Pit
    3.00 star(s)
    I'm probably just reiterating what others have said, but I like hearing (seeing) myself speak. This gets 3 stars because when the place isn't...
  • Cascade Loan & Sporting Goods
    3.00 star(s)
    I am giving this review because at one time I was a really big customer there. Back in the day, I bought at least a dozen used guns from Cascade...
  • Cabela's - Tualatin
    1.00 star(s)
    Took the day off today to go see my cancer Dr in Potland and stopped by Cabelas on the way back to work. They were open an hour early (9:00) for...
  • Cabela's - Tualatin
    3.00 star(s)
    My review is from a visit I made to Cabela's at the start of May 2020. I was there strictly to shop for a Pietta black powder revolver. Because...
  • Sunset Firearms
    5.00 star(s)
    I've used Gordon several times for transfers and even bought a couple guns through him and I have always been treated excellent!
Top Bottom