Whale Wars

[284guy]

Good point. Can I come shoot your dog? What's your address?

I already shot it a few months ago, why pay the vet to put it down? Do you cry when you hit a squirrel or raccoon with your car?

 

[284guy]

The point of the thread wasnt if it was moral to kill whales or not, but rather if the tactics the use are justified. Are the lives they risk worth proving their point? Can we ram the car of a speeder or throw acid at jay walkers? Harrass the neighbor who kills gophers in his garden?

 

[Mutoman]

I have been curious on the rifle used to finish of the whales. I found a pdf about Norwegian whaling that states "29 whales deemed not to have been killed by the harpoon-mounted penthrite grenade and were subsequently shot by a .375 or .458 calibre rifle. Of these, 8 had been shot with a .375 calibre rifle and 21 with a .458 calibre rifle. Fifteen had received a single shot, 10 received two shots, three whales received three bullets and one whale received six bullets." (page 6 of the report).

http://www.iwcoffice.org/_documents/commission/IWC58docs/58-WKM&AWI 11.pdf

 

[Buddhalux]

Have you seen the modern technology they use today? That ain't cultural, friend. It's industrial slaughter. If they want to go out in reed boats with lances, we can talk.

The Spaniards had a cultural tradition of slaughtering North American natives in the name of Christianity and the King. African tribesman had a cultural tradition of enslaving one another. Saharan tribes had a cultural tradition of mutilating women and girls with female circumcision. Russians have a cultural tradition involving overconsumption of alcohol. Chinese had a cultural tradition of opium consumption.

Therefore....?

The weird, "Yeah baby, nuke the whales and shoot the defenders!! Woohoo!!" aspect of this thread says a lot about people, much of which has little to do with whales or Japanese culture. And in case you were wondering, that wasn't a compliment.

Maybe you should keep in mind that the whaling fleet is not breaking any laws of the moritorium. The Sea Shepards are breaking laws as well as common sense on the high seas. Not being able to tell the difference says alot about you.

 

[eldbillbo]

billions of carrots are ripped from their roots and taken to the slaughter to end up in stews and in salads across the world ....

let the rabbits ware glasses.

if humans truly wanted to save the planet they should stop breeding .

 

[WhyteCheddar]

The crew of the sea shepard are immature fools. Their childish game is going to get them killed.
The LEGAL harvesting of this tiny amount of whales is not going to stop and it won't take too may more rammings of these legal fishing vessles before the Japanese Navy gets involved.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

Have you seen the modern technology they use today? That ain't cultural, friend. It's industrial slaughter. If they want to go out in reed boats with lances, we can talk.

The Spaniards had a cultural tradition of slaughtering North American natives in the name of Christianity and the King. African tribesman had a cultural tradition of enslaving one another. Saharan tribes had a cultural tradition of mutilating women and girls with female circumcision. Russians have a cultural tradition involving overconsumption of alcohol. Chinese had a cultural tradition of opium consumption.

Therefore....?

The weird, "Yeah baby, nuke the whales and shoot the defenders!! Woohoo!!" aspect of this thread says a lot about people, much of which has little to do with whales or Japanese culture. And in case you were wondering, that wasn't a compliment.

You are comparing the deaths of humans with that of animals.
'fail'.

 

[rhtwist]

Reading this thread, and some of the answers only shows me that some of the responders are trolls attempting to inflame reasonable and possibly valid conversation on the topic, come from a long line of knuckle draggers, or probably haven't taken time to procure facts other than the ones that support their personal idea, other than a minority that seems to care to actually discuss the issues and dialogue the different viewpoints. Can I come over and shoot your dog, really relevant and intelligent. You wonder why the world is in the situation it is in now. I especially like the logical and well thought out conclusion that the whale war people are the proof needed to demonize all environmentalists and people who disagree with them. Well thought out? And seem to take joy, actual joy in seeing an animal killed, with its blood running from holes in its body. Question calibers to kill a whale, I mean, come on people.
For the record I believe in and have hunted, I fish and keep what I eat and release alive what I don't. Strong 2nd Amendment right believer, and NRA member. I also believe in conservation of the world's resources and non-commercially focused management of wildlife which in my opinion belong to the world, each and every person and our children and their children.
Also did a google search on Japanese Fisherman killed or death caused by the Sea Shepards action. DID NOT find any indication of this statement being true. The collision of the Steve Irwin and a Japanese whaling vessel was investigated by the Australian Government and no charges were brought against either vessel or crew.
rhtwist

 

[Sawdust]

Reading this thread, and some of the answers only shows me that some of the responders are trolls attempting to inflame reasonable and possibly valid conversation on the topic, come from a long line of knuckle draggers, or probably haven't taken time to procure facts other than the ones that support their personal idea, other than a minority that seems to care to actually discuss the issues and dialogue the different viewpoints. Can I come over and shoot your dog, really relevant and intelligent. You wonder why the world is in the situation it is in now. I especially like the logical and well thought out conclusion that the whale war people are the proof needed to demonize all environmentalists and people who disagree with them. Well thought out? And seem to take joy, actual joy in seeing an animal killed, with its blood running from holes in its body. Question calibers to kill a whale, I mean, come on people.
For the record I believe in and have hunted, I fish and keep what I eat and release alive what I don't. Strong 2nd Amendment right believer, and NRA member. I also believe in conservation of the world's resources and non-commercially focused management of wildlife which in my opinion belong to the world, each and every person and our children and their children.
Also did a google search on Japanese Fisherman killed or death caused by the Sea Shepards action. DID NOT find any indication of this statement being true. The collision of the Steve Irwin and a Japanese whaling vessel was investigated by the Australian Government and no charges were brought against either vessel or crew.
rhtwist

Since some of this opinion was direcrted towards some of my comments please let me respond.

First, if it's OK to discuss calibers for the killing of an elk I see no difference in discussing the same about a whale.

As far as the sailor who was killed, it is mentioned in the linked article.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1686486,00.html

Just because no charges were filed doesn't make it right. Try ramming/harassing a military vessel of any nation in international waters and see what happens. The acts of the Sea Shepherd group amount to terrorism and border on piracy. That is also covered under international law and the penalty is severe and can be immediate.

 

[rhtwist]

Hello Sawdust,
I used the link you provided but could not find the link to the Sea Shepard's actions causing the death of a Japanese fisherman in the whaling fleet. I did from the same source find that the Japanese are now hunting endangered species, not just the minske whale. Also:

Now Japan has upped the ante: at the annual meeting of the IWC last week in the Caribbean nation of St. Kitts and Nevis, the Japanese pushed through a resolution calling for a repeal of the whaling moratorium, declaring it "no longer necessary."

. This is even though they apparently have never shared any of their data with US sources.
I believe that is so much for the research theory. Also I've found that a Japanese Newspaper that claimed the Japanese were going to reduce their research catch by 10% to be a complete fabrication by one newspaper, and unsubstantiated by the Japanese government, whalers or other news sources.
Since there were no charges. there was no legal, official findings of an attempt to ram the other ship, or the reverse.
Could you please give me a more direct link to the supposed death story.
Thanks if you can. Possibly the caliber post was not off topic, but it to me shows the importance of your convictions and seriousness in the main topic IMHO.
rhtwist

 

[WhyteCheddar]

Reading this thread, and some of the answers only shows me that some of the responders are trolls attempting to inflame reasonable and possibly valid conversation on the topic, come from a long line of knuckle draggers, or probably haven't taken time to procure facts other than the ones that support their personal idea, other than a minority that seems to care to actually discuss the issues and dialogue the different viewpoints. Can I come over and shoot your dog, really relevant and intelligent. You wonder why the world is in the situation it is in now. I especially like the logical and well thought out conclusion that the whale war people are the proof needed to demonize all environmentalists and people who disagree with them. Well thought out? And seem to take joy, actual joy in seeing an animal killed, with its blood running from holes in its body. Question calibers to kill a whale, I mean, come on people.
For the record I believe in and have hunted, I fish and keep what I eat and release alive what I don't. Strong 2nd Amendment right believer, and NRA member. I also believe in conservation of the world's resources and non-commercially focused management of wildlife which in my opinion belong to the world, each and every person and our children and their children.
Also did a google search on Japanese Fisherman killed or death caused by the Sea Shepards action. DID NOT find any indication of this statement being true. The collision of the Steve Irwin and a Japanese whaling vessel was investigated by the Australian Government and no charges were brought against either vessel or crew.
rhtwist

Your points are well taken.
I don't think many people really want to see even the sea shepard sunk. As bad as they are (dumbass pirate flag and all) death is a little 'overkill' for their stupidity.
I am far from an expert on whaling but from the bit that I have gleaned here and there, what Japan is doing is not really impacting the whale population in any significant way.
In any case, there are many avenues if people want to limit whaling even more, taking your ship and ramming the law abiding vessel of another is not going to get them anywhere except maybe in a foreign prison, or worse in Davy Jones locker.
Their best bet is to just observe and be sure the operation is not exceeding it's allowed or stated limits.
Remember that most operations like this get their funding by exagerating the conditions that they claim to be trying to stop.

 

[rhtwist]

Hello WhyteCheddar,

As bad as they are (dumbass pirate flag and all) death is a little 'overkill' for their stupidity.

I agree even to the dumbass!

I am far from an expert on whaling but from the bit that I have gleaned here and there, what Japan is doing is not really impacting the whale population in any significant way.

I understand your point of view, but now they are hunting endangered species like the humpback, not just the non-endangered. Also their goal is commercial IMO especially after this anouncement in Time Magazine

Now Japan has upped the ante: at the annual meeting of the IWC last week in the Caribbean nation of St. Kitts and Nevis, the Japanese pushed through a resolution calling for a repeal of the whaling moratorium, declaring it "no longer necessary."

In any case, there are many avenues if people want to limit whaling even more, taking your ship and ramming the law abiding vessel of another is not going to get them anywhere except maybe in a foreign prison, or worse in Davy Jones locker.

As noted a official inquiry by the Australian government and no charges of intentional ramming or of any type were brought against either vessel. So legally there was no ramming and it was an accident. Regardless of what people wish to believe, its was legally investigated by hopefully unbiased Government of Australia.

I have had this dicussion on another forum and came to the same convictions about certain people and there ability to think and care. Seems like a majority IMHO climbed out of the walls to bash a supposed intelligent discussion on a matter that is very important to many people. Thanks for responding.
I read an article I couldn't believe, about how many more hundreds or thousands of people you could have on this earth and feed, if you just murdered 1 Blue whale. I personally believe we have more than enough people on this on this planet Earth already IMHO.

rhtwist

 

[Scott]

Those Sea Sheperds are nut cases at the very least. I understand they care for whales and that's their right but the way they go about it is all wrong. What they do is careless, dangerous, and harrassment and I think some sort of terrorism at the least. If I were the Japanese I would defend myself against them in a worse manner and I don't understand how they put up with these nut case eco freaks. Trying to see how close you can come to crashing ships is just stupid and launching those stink bombs and all the other crap at their boats is just stupid. I saw the one episode where 2 freaks from the sea sheperd boarded the Japanese vessel and then they complained they were being held hostage. I think they are very lucky they did not get shot!!!! You can't just go board another countries vessel because you disagree with what they are doing. I think lucky to be breathing because if it was my ship I would threw their stupid selves off the bow and let them swim.

 

[CEF1959]

The point of the thread wasnt if it was moral to kill whales or not, but rather if the tactics the use are justified. Are the lives they risk worth proving their point? Can we ram the car of a speeder or throw acid at jay walkers? Harrass the neighbor who kills gophers in his garden?

That was the point? I could have sworn your original post said this too:

"Grown men and women crying over a dead animal. Honestly I watch always hoping their ship will sink or the Japs will send that harpoon through the sea shepard bridge. Has anyone tried whale meat? Id be very interested in trying it."

So what was your point about not wanting to "risk life"?

BTW, these aren't like white-tails. Because their numbers have been depleted so badly, hunting them is prohibited internationally except for "scientific" purposes. The problem is that the Japanese seem to think commercial fishing is a form of "science" and use that loophole to kill whales for meat.

 

[eldbillbo]

i'm all for saving the whales (hate them sea lions though how about a hunting season for those) plenty of fish in the sea uh well used to be.

and if those numb nuts want to risk their lives hey what ever floats their boats more power to them they are trying to make a point and draw attention to their cause at the cost of their own lives well at least they are doing something some of you may risk your life ( or say you would ) for something you truly believe in . and i'm sure it makes for great ratings too.

i have a solution ....

how about we give them all the sea lions they can eat in exchange for leaving the whales alone.

 

[Mutoman]

i'm all for saving the whales (hate them sea lions though how about a hunting season for those) plenty of fish in the sea uh well used to be.

and if those numb nuts want to risk their lives hey what ever floats their boats more power to them they are trying to make a point and draw attention to their cause at the cost of their own lives well at least they are doing something some of you may risk your life ( or say you would ) for something you truly believe in . and i'm sure it makes for great ratings too.

i have a solution ....

how about we give them all the sea lions they can eat in exchange for leaving the whales alone.

Amen brother! Amen!

 

[WhyteCheddar]

Hello WhyteCheddar,


I agree even to the dumbass!



I understand your point of view, but now they are hunting endangered species like the humpback, not just the non-endangered. Also their goal is commercial IMO especially after this anouncement in Time Magazine





As noted a official inquiry by the Australian government and no charges of intentional ramming or of any type were brought against either vessel. So legally there was no ramming and it was an accident. Regardless of what people wish to believe, its was legally investigated by hopefully unbiased Government of Australia.

I have had this dicussion on another forum and came to the same convictions about certain people and there ability to think and care. Seems like a majority IMHO climbed out of the walls to bash a supposed intelligent discussion on a matter that is very important to many people. Thanks for responding.
I read an article I couldn't believe, about how many more hundreds or thousands of people you could have on this earth and feed, if you just murdered 1 Blue whale. I personally believe we have more than enough people on this on this planet Earth already IMHO.

rhtwist

Investigation or not. I saw the episode in question and the sea shepard captain intentionally created a condition that allowed the vessles to collide. As the harpoon ship was in position to transfer the carcass, only the sea shepard captain could have avoided the impact IMHO. I know its TV and they gin everyone up for as much emotion as possible. But the captain plainly spoke about what his intentions were both before during and after the collision.
Not sure what the Aussie government was using as parameters to determine an infraction, but it appeared to be to be a very determined move on the sea shepards part.

 

[Scott]

I thought people were not suppose to call each a dumb@@@. I noticed that and that's pretty rude.........

 

[ob1]

Those Sea Sheperds are nut cases at the very least. I understand they care for whales and that's their right but the way they go about it is all wrong. What they do is careless, dangerous, and harrassment and I think some sort of terrorism at the least. If I were the Japanese I would defend myself against them in a worse manner and I don't understand how they put up with these nut case eco freaks. Trying to see how close you can come to crashing ships is just stupid and launching those stink bombs and all the other crap at their boats is just stupid. I saw the one episode where 2 freaks from the sea sheperd boarded the Japanese vessel and then they complained they were being held hostage. I think they are very lucky they did not get shot!!!! You can't just go board another countries vessel because you disagree with what they are doing. I think lucky to be breathing because if it was my ship I would threw their stupid selves off the bow and let them swim.[/QUOTE[/I

The Japanese culture underwent a pacifist transformation after the end of WWII. Militarism and expression of it's own sovereign interests have been considered distasteful. This may explain, at least in part, it's reluctance to intervene in this matter with an aggressive manner.
Japan's period of pacifism may be coming to an end as it is now increasing it's once dimunitive armed forces, especially it's navy(JMSDF). They now have modern guided missile warships including a big new aircraft carrier, the Hyuga. (can you say "Tora Tora Tora" ?) While this is in part is due to current events with N. Korea and decreasing reliance on the US for national defense, the chronic irritant of these pseudo-terroists can only only serve to fan the flames of Japanese re-armament. The spectre of a renewed militant Japan is not a pleasant one.
To straddle the fence on this topic, I do think though that the use of the euphamism of "research" rather than calling it anything other than "stealth harvesting" is a farse. If it walks like a duck, it aint sushi...:sword:

 

[jordanvraptor]

The Hyuga operates helicopters not attack planes. The Japanese navy is modern but is not a power projection force. The Japanese govt just changed political parties to a more socialist direction. They have openly questioned US military basing on their soil and withdrawn what little support they were giving to our operations in afghanistan and iraq. If you are worried about Japan going fascist again, the facts do not seem to support your theory.