Weyerhauser to close off access to much of it's land; $300 fee for access

[The Heretic]

As a private timberland owner (only 20 acres), let me chime in a little here on the assertion regarding reduced property taxes - at least in Oregon.

What the reduced taxes are is a program that allows tree farms (including XMas tree farms) the ability to enroll their timber producing land in a tax *deferral* program. Instead of paying a tax on the full value of the land (including the full value of the trees) every year, a person in the program will pay a lower property tax on the value of the land without the value of the trees.

Then when the trees are harvested and leave the land, the owner pays a "severance" tax (on the volume harvested) and or "yield" tax on the value of the trees, plus an income tax on the income from the trees.

This recognizes the fact, that like other farmers, we are taxed on the crop when we harvest it, not on its full market value while it grows, and then get taxed again when we harvest and have income. The difference between someone who raises a yearly crop of wheat or potatoes and tree farms like mine is that tree farms take 40+ years to get to a harvest after planting.

This also recognizes the fact that there is value to the environment by keeping the land, especially small tracts like mine, forested instead of harvested. The trees also hold the soil and soak up rain (conifers especially drink up a LOT of water) reducing flood and erosion damage/risks.

I thinned a few acres (2 to 3) this year, but kept about a third to half the trees on that acreage (spread out) - i.e., I did not clear cut because I like trees and I feel they increase the appeal of the land when I go to sell it (in about 5 years when I retire). I cleared a lot of brush (scrub, maple, oak and alder) and had some mature deciduous trees cut too. It looks a lot better now and you can actually walk through those acres without a machete to clear the path.

I've already spent the pre tax income I got from the logs I sold (and then some) on property improvements and I will spend even more cleaning up the brush piles and planting more conifers over the coming years - cedar, spruce and redwood to provide a more diverse set of conifer species from the existing fir trees (I will not plant any of the native hardwoods - they don't need it as they grow up wild like weeds already - besides, I prefer the conifers).

 

[The Heretic]

And yes, I have been in the PNW for almost 60 years. I spent time up in those woods, hunting, camping/hiking, dirt biking, 4-wheeling and so on.

I have noticed over the last 3 to 4 decades that as the regional population grew there were increasing problems with vandalism and trash dumping. There are also increasing problems with forest fires due to people building campfires, smokers and various vehicles causing fires.

Just the last few weeks I have noticed trash dumping on the public mountain road I live off of. I have found trash in my woods, and I live on a private road with less than ten houses on it.

I can understand why both public and private lands are increasingly implementing access restrictions. We had a neighborhood meeting this week about road repairs/maintenance and there was discussion about speed bumps and even a gate.

I would prefer that large land tract owners like Weyerhaeuser get together with other large tract owners and come up with a universal access permit system that allows hunters/etc. access to their land by paying one yearly fee. Paying a bunch of different fees for different tracts of land is confusing and expensive and forces hunters to choose ahead of time where they are going to hunt.

The good thing about access fees is that it does cut down on the vandalism/etc., because those who pay the fees will want to maintain their access privileges by treating the land correctly and reporting those who abuse/misuse the land.

 

[BAMCIS]

It is their land. I don't think I have a problem with this. It sure would keep the tweekers and riff raff out.

 

[The Heretic]

It is their land. I don't think I have a problem with this. It sure would keep the tweekers and riff raff out.

It would keep the dumpers out - but I have seen them dump right at the gates.

It would keep the vandals out - but I have seen them destroy the gates.

Drug users - I would prefer they stay at home.

 

[coastal steelheader]

It is their land. I don't think I have a problem with this. It sure would keep the tweekers and riff raff out.

I'm not necessarily against this , it's the amount of the fee that bothers me.

 

[BAMCIS]

I'm not necessarily against this , it's the amount of the fee that bothers me.

I hear you, but what would be reasonable?

In my younger days when my friends and I would go out for an evening of watching the bare boobies, we tended to seek out the clubs that charged the highest cover to get in. We found places such as these were much higher class and the girls much better than the ones that either had a small cover charge or none at all. This is a perfect example of getting what you pay for. The cover charge definitely kept the riff raff out which enabled them to deliver a better product.

Side note: We were such regulars at a particular establishment that they knew I was the designated driver, so I was always let in for free.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Transferring federal land to the states may not be the answer either. It'll be much easier to then sell that land to private interests with development and other uses in mind that don't include hunting and fishing. It will also put that land under control of state ballot measures, and we've seen the results of that already with things like hound hunting and logging. Giving that land to the State of Oregon means essentially giving it to Multnomah County.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

I'm not necessarily against this , it's the amount of the fee that bothers me.

Even though I mostly hunt family property for free, I still send the very distant relative that owns it a thank you note and gift every year, amounting to maybe $100 worth of stuff. A couple of good books, a Harry & David box, etc. goes a long way toward maintaining good will. I also occasionally replace a gate or fix a fence and send pictures. It's just good public relations, even when it's family.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

And yes, I have been in the PNW for almost 60 years. I spent time up in those woods, hunting, camping/hiking, dirt biking, 4-wheeling and so on.

I have noticed over the last 3 to 4 decades that as the regional population grew there were increasing problems with vandalism and trash dumping. There are also increasing problems with forest fires due to people building campfires, smokers and various vehicles causing fires.

Just the last few weeks I have noticed trash dumping on the public mountain road I live off of. I have found trash in my woods, and I live on a private road with less than ten houses on it.

I can understand why both public and private lands are increasingly implementing access restrictions. We had a neighborhood meeting this week about road repairs/maintenance and there was discussion about speed bumps and even a gate.

I would prefer that large land tract owners like Weyerhaeuser get together with other large tract owners and come up with a universal access permit system that allows hunters/etc. access to their land by paying one yearly fee. Paying a bunch of different fees for different tracts of land is confusing and expensive and forces hunters to choose ahead of time where they are going to hunt.

The good thing about access fees is that it does cut down on the vandalism/etc., because those who pay the fees will want to maintain their access privileges by treating the land correctly and reporting those who abuse/misuse the land.

I completely agree. I'd be willing to pay a reasonable fee for a universal access permit. Such a program might also attract other private land owners to participate if there was some tax break or shared revenue from it, and a quick way to identify those who had paid, like a window sticker for your vehicle or something. The state would be the logical entity to run such a program.

 

[coastal steelheader]

I hear you, but what would be reasonable?

In my younger days when my friends and I would go out for an evening of watching the bare boobies, we tended to seek out the clubs that charged the highest cover to get in. We found places such as these were much higher class and the girls much better than the ones that either had a small cover charge or none at all. This is a perfect example of getting what you pay for. The cover charge definitely kept the riff raff out which enabled them to deliver a better product.

Side note: We were such regulars at a particular establishment that they knew I was the designated driver, so I was always let in for free.

Reasonable is going to vary from person to person. The guides will pay the fee no matter how high and just pass it on to their customers. I'm more worried about the weekend warriors like myself, or those who want to introduce their kids to pleasures of hooking a sea run cutthroat or steelhead. Throwing a $300 fee on top of the licensing is probably going to be deal killer for a lot of people.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

As a private timberland owner (only 20 acres), let me chime in a little here on the assertion regarding reduced property taxes - at least in Oregon.

What the reduced taxes are is a program that allows tree farms (including XMas tree farms) the ability to enroll their timber producing land in a tax *deferral* program. Instead of paying a tax on the full value of the land (including the full value of the trees) every year, a person in the program will pay a lower property tax on the value of the land without the value of the trees.

Then when the trees are harvested and leave the land, the owner pays a "severance" tax (on the volume harvested) and or "yield" tax on the value of the trees, plus an income tax on the income from the trees.

This recognizes the fact, that like other farmers, we are taxed on the crop when we harvest it, not on its full market value while it grows, and then get taxed again when we harvest and have income. The difference between someone who raises a yearly crop of wheat or potatoes and tree farms like mine is that tree farms take 40+ years to get to a harvest after planting.

This also recognizes the fact that there is value to the environment by keeping the land, especially small tracts like mine, forested instead of harvested. The trees also hold the soil and soak up rain (conifers especially drink up a LOT of water) reducing flood and erosion damage/risks.

I thinned a few acres (2 to 3) this year, but kept about a third to half the trees on that acreage (spread out) - i.e., I did not clear cut because I like trees and I feel they increase the appeal of the land when I go to sell it (in about 5 years when I retire). I cleared a lot of brush (scrub, maple, oak and alder) and had some mature deciduous trees cut too. It looks a lot better now and you can actually walk through those acres without a machete to clear the path.

I've already spent the pre tax income I got from the logs I sold (and then some) on property improvements and I will spend even more cleaning up the brush piles and planting more conifers over the coming years - cedar, spruce and redwood to provide a more diverse set of conifer species from the existing fir trees (I will not plant any of the native hardwoods - they don't need it as they grow up wild like weeds already - besides, I prefer the conifers).

I have planted some eastern shagbark hickory trees just to see how they do. If they do well, they will be a source of excellent firewood. They grow fast and the unseasoned wood burns very nicely.

 

[coyote223]

Limiting access to a certain number of people? I predict ODFW raising fees on top of the pay-for-access, to offset the loss in tag/license sales.

 

[The Heretic]

I have planted some eastern shagbark hickory trees just to see how they do. If they do well, they will be a source of excellent firewood. They grow fast and the unseasoned wood burns very nicely.

I have enough maple and alder to last me the rest of my life, and by then I would have even more. I am also fortunate that I have quite a bit more fir than hardwood - if I want to clear cut I could pay off a good chunk of my mortgage. I have neighbors who have mostly maple and alder and little fir - except for firewood they would not be able to give away the trees on much of their land.

 

[kevin1961]

Haven't seen or harvested an animal in a few years (SW WA). Too many people, not enough space and animals. Been getting more and more expensive and time consuming to come home empty handed after a week or two of walking in the woods. I have been talking about giving up the big game hunting and just stick with what I really enjoy...duck hunting. I used to tell people duck hunting was expensive, not anymore.