Well its happened almost $1000 for 1K of 9mm

[The Heretic]

Option 3 is unlikely - Trump can make noises about that all he wants (to his detriment making his chances of winning even worse than they are now), but when it becomes obvious to everyone that he lost, the EC, courts and Congress will declare him the loser (assuming he fights it) and the Secret Service will just escort him out of the White House when Biden is sworn in. At that point he will no longer have any legal power. The USA is not yet a "banana republic" where the POTUS can declare themselves "ruler for life" and just totally ignore the Constitution and an election.

The worst Trump could do is declare the election null and void, or postpone it beforehand - THAT would be the nuclear option, and I am not sure how feasible it would be. He would probably lose in court, and the SCOTUS would probably accept a lawsuit overnight and declare it invalid. Anybody who stood behind him in an attempt to subvert the election would not be in office/power much longer, and some (like any senior military) may wind up in prison.

 

[Flopsweat]

Option 3 is unlikely - Trump can make noises about that all he wants (to his detriment making his chances of winning even worse than they are now), but when it becomes obvious to everyone that he lost, the EC, courts and Congress will declare him the loser (assuming he fights it) and the Secret Service will just escort him out of the White House when Biden is sworn in. At that point he will no longer have any legal power. The USA is not yet a "banana republic" where the POTUS can declare themselves "ruler for life" and just totally ignore the Constitution and an election.

The worst Trump could do is declare the election null and void, or postpone it beforehand - THAT would be the nuclear option, and I am not sure how feasible it would be. He would probably lose in court, and the SCOTUS would probably accept a lawsuit overnight and declare it invalid. Anybody who stood behind him in an attempt to subvert the election would not be in office/power much longer, and some (like any senior military) may wind up in prison.

I don't see him hanging on if he legitimately looses but with all the fraud that's being uncovered almost daily I'm not sure how we can trust a result. I don't expect either party to accept defeat under these conditions, although most of the cheating seems to have come from the left so far.

 

[The Heretic]

I don't see him hanging on if he legitimately looses but with all the fraud that's being uncovered almost daily I'm not sure how we can trust a result. I don't expect either party to accept defeat under these conditions, although most of the cheating seems to have come from the left so far.

I think it is unlikely, but he is making noises to that effect.

Just saying that it is a scenario given his demeanor and quotes. I think it is more likely he will just leave, although probably not gracefully (at the very least he will make tweets that he was cheated, maybe threats).

If he tries to hang on when it is clear that he didn't win the election, and he tries the maneuvers that some fear, then I think it would be a good thing as:

1) It would test the loyalty of many to the rule of law and the Constitution instead of to party and person.
2) It would test the mechanisms we have in place for such a scenario.
3) It would possibly cause more safeguards and structure to be put in place.

Worst scenario, although highly unlikely, would be LE and military back him up when it is clear he lost and try to keep him in office. I don't think he has anywhere near the loyalty in either LE or military to do that, but just saying that is a scenario. If that happened, then we would probably see an actual civil war and it would be just left v. right.

 

[Flopsweat]

I think it is unlikely, but he is making noises to that effect.

Just saying that it is a scenario given his demeanor and quotes. I think it is more likely he will just leave, although probably not gracefully (at the very least he will make tweets that he was cheated, maybe threats).

If he tries to hang on when it is clear that he didn't win the election, and he tries the maneuvers that some fear, then I think it would be a good thing as:

1) It would test the loyalty of many to the rule of law and the Constitution instead of to party and person.
2) It would test the mechanisms we have in place for such a scenario.
3) It would possibly cause more safeguards and structure to be put in place.

Worst scenario, although highly unlikely, would be LE and military back him up when it is clear he lost and try to keep him in office. I don't think he has anywhere near the loyalty in either LE or military to do that, but just saying that is a scenario. If that happened, then we would probably see an actual civil war and it would be just left v. right.

I think massive voter fraud from the left is far more likely. They are finding more every day.

 

[GWS]

I think it is unlikely, but he is making noises to that effect.

Just saying that it is a scenario given his demeanor and quotes. I think it is more likely he will just leave, although probably not gracefully (at the very least he will make tweets that he was cheated, maybe threats).

If he tries to hang on when it is clear that he didn't win the election, and he tries the maneuvers that some fear, then I think it would be a good thing as:

1) It would test the loyalty of many to the rule of law and the Constitution instead of to party and person.
2) It would test the mechanisms we have in place for such a scenario.
3) It would possibly cause more safeguards and structure to be put in place.

Worst scenario, although highly unlikely, would be LE and military back him up when it is clear he lost and try to keep him in office. I don't think he has anywhere near the loyalty in either LE or military to do that, but just saying that is a scenario. If that happened, then we would probably see an actual civil war and it would be just left v. right.

Trump makes all sorts of noises to all sorts of effect.
Do people honestly think he's going to barricade himself in the Oval Office if he loses? If he loses I think he will simply walk to his jet and fly to some country that has no extradition treaty with the US. lol

If it actually got to a point where the military or LEO's take arms to keep him in office then I agree with your assessment and that'll be a coup, which will be followed by a civil war.
OTOH If there is provable evidence of fraud I wonder if they would re-do the vote This time everyone not medically prohibited must go to a polling place with picture ID and vote there.

Seriously, though, I think all of this is just a tempest in a teacup.


ETA And wasn't this a thread about high-priced ammo?

 

[CountryGent]

I don't know that I could possibly care less than I currently do about ammo prices or availability. Not that the stash is completed or even balanced; far from it. We have too much of some and not enough of others. And one caliber (9x19㎜ Parabellum), between normal usage by the two adults here, coupled with a thirsty new addition, might be depleted faster.

Not even remotely surprising either considering those losing their cookies over the election, pandemic, social unrest, and the rest. And, well, how little the US dollar really buys now. Since it was mentioned, I'm sure the outcome of the presidential election will have some impact. If the present POTUS is reelected, perhaps less panic buying. If his opponent, the panic buying of firearms and ammo will likely only increase dramatically, considering that ticket's stated 2A stance. (When I raised the question of a possibility of a Trump defeat during the early outbreaks of the pandemic many thought the question was untenable, to put it in the kindest phraseology I can. Now more are willing to admit that is a very real possibility. Not that I give a damn about mainstream partisan politics, because I don't, but the observation is at least fleetingly and mildly amusing.)

This year has been hell, on number of disparate fronts, with few redeeming points. Though having experienced times even worse than this one, I have found they can clarify what is and isn't important. The latest ammo panic isn't even close to being in the former category.

 

[nammac]

Trump makes all sorts of noises to all sorts of effect.
Do people honestly think he's going to barricade himself in the Oval Office if he loses? If he loses I think he will simply walk to his jet and fly to some country that has no extradition treaty with the US. lol

If it actually got to a point where the military or LEO's take arms to keep him in office then I agree with your assessment and that'll be a coup, which will be followed by a civil war.
OTOH If there is provable evidence of fraud I wonder if they would re-do the vote This time everyone not medically prohibited must go to a polling place with picture ID and vote there.

Seriously, though, I think all of this is just a tempest in a teacup.


ETA And wasn't this a thread about high-priced ammo?

There's already "provable evidence of fraud", MSM won't have anything to do with it. Tens of thousands of ballots dumped in ditches, or perhaps the ballot issue in New York, military ballots sent to civilians...

It doesn't take much google-fu to find it. In my mind, the validity of the election is already in question. Some states declaring they'll take weeks after the election to count mail in ballots...

No possibility of passing the vote there, eh?

Let's not get into ballot harvesting...

If you can stand in line to go to Walmart or whatever, you can stand in line to vote. Period...

 

[nammac]

Hillsboro Bi-Mart has Federal 9mm for 12.97/box this afternoon. I passed because .26/round for fmj just seems to be high, considering it's really only worth about a dime/round

 

[The Heretic]

Hillsboro Bi-Mart has Federal 9mm for 12.97/box this afternoon. I passed because .26/round for fmj just seems to be high, considering it's really only worth about a dime/round

That's a decent price IMO.

IIRC, it was 19¢/round pre-pandemic and that was considered to be a pretty good price.

 

[Alexx1401]

I don't see him hanging on if he legitimately looses but with all the fraud that's being uncovered almost daily I'm not sure how we can trust a result. I don't expect either party to accept defeat under these conditions, although most of the cheating seems to have come from the left so far.

NONE of the GOP has ever come close to this. Only one party can be counted on to almost always refuse to admit they lost and refuse to concede. So they project this to Trump all the time. Clinton is still running around saying she won as is that woman who ran for Governor in one of the southern states. She got trounced and is still running around saying she won. We regularly see elections where the GOP person wins. So they start re counting ballots. They will suddenly find boxes of ballots in some car, in the alley, behind a burger joint, and they just keep re counting till the D wins. Still the GOP just shrug and walk away. Let the GOP pull something like that and wath the media catch fire.

 

[Alexx1401]

Hillsboro Bi-Mart has Federal 9mm for 12.97/box this afternoon. I passed because .26/round for fmj just seems to be high, considering it's really only worth about a dime/round

Given the way it's going that is a "good" price now. I am sure it all went out the door a second after word got out. Most of what I have here was around $12 a box when I bought it. At that time it was always on sale at walk in places slightly cheaper but to me it was worth that price to just have it dropped at my door.

 

[aksu747]

9mm prices have me considering keeping my Glock in .45 GAP cause 32 cents to 40 cents a round might be the cheapest centerfire I'll be able shoot for a while.
And considering I can get Speer Gold Dots for 40 cents a round for .45 GAP isn't too bad.

 

[briant27]

Given the way it's going that is a "good" price now. I am sure it all went out the door a second after word got out. Most of what I have here was around $12 a box when I bought it. At that time it was always on sale at walk in places slightly cheaper but to me it was worth that price to just have it dropped at my door.

FMJ bullet is crazy expensive for reloading. A round with FMJ in it would probably hover around $0.15-$0.16 a round. $0.26 is very good. Tumbling is hard work, sorting cases and inspection is very hard work, and finally put in the effort to finish the round and making sure the powder is correct is more than worth the extra $0.10 per round imo.

 

[EHJ]

How I feel when I practice at the range these days...

 

[The Heretic]

9mm prices have me considering keeping my Glock in .45 GAP cause 32 cents to 40 cents a round might be the cheapest centerfire I'll be able shoot for a while.
And considering I can get Speer Gold Dots for 40 cents a round for .45 GAP isn't too bad.

It used to be the case that the heavier the ammo (usually due to the projectile) the costlier it was. I am sure that is still pretty much the case when it comes to cost of manufacture (not including scaling of quantity). Right now it seems that demand and supply is driving the price - 9mm being the highest demand. I.E., the supply chain is selling for as much as they can.

Makes me glad I have enough ammo, and that I have a diversity of it - 9mm, .40 and .45 ACP.

 

[Alexx1401]

FMJ bullet is crazy expensive for reloading. A round with FMJ in it would probably hover around $0.15-$0.16 a round. $0.26 is very good. Tumbling is hard work, sorting cases and inspection is very hard work, and finally put in the effort to finish the round and making sure the powder is correct is more than worth the extra $0.10 per round imo.

That is why I have not rolled any 9mm since they started letting us order ammo. I could of course roll it cheaper but to me the work is not worth it. I have for several panics now though warned people to keep the stuff to roll on hand. Stuff for me is in 5gal buckets. If it got to where I start to run low I can and would roll some more. I will probably die and the stuff will still be unused. Kids can sell / give it away whatever they want. Its nice to know it's there if I need it even if I never use it

 

[Alexx1401]

It used to be the case that the heavier the ammo (usually due to the projectile) the costlier it was. I am sure that is still pretty much the case when it comes to cost of manufacture (not including scaling of quantity). Right now it seems that demand and supply is driving the price - 9mm being the highest demand. I.E., the supply chain is selling for as much as they can.

Makes me glad I have enough ammo, and that I have a diversity of it - 9mm, .40 and .45 ACP.

The larger rounds are slightly more costly but it's down to such a low difference as to be hard to quantify. What makes the big difference, when things are "normal", is how much of it is made. Look at .32ACP compared to 9mm. The 9mm was made in such huge quantity that it was always FAR cheaper even though there was more metal used. Same with something like .45 ACP compared to .45 Colt. The cost of the latter has ALWAYS been that to really enjoy shooting it you had to either roll it or buy it re rolled. Factory has been high all my damn life. Because they just do not make nearly as much of it.
Now in this panic of course some of the "odd calibers" may often be found cheaper since all of a sudden the 9mm is just gone. Kind of funny that the stuff that was a short time ago far more expensive is now "cheap"

 

[Alexx1401]

How I feel when I practice at the range these days...

View attachment 758793

Yeah when I start doing dumps of happy sticks these days I often feel people glaring at me
Edit, I had forgotten a couple range trips back another shooter my age was picking up brass and I asked him if he wanted mine. I pick up the 9mm brass but only to give away. He looked like he wanted to buy me a nice meal he had such a smile on his face

 

[GWS]

Hillsboro Bi-Mart has Federal 9mm for 12.97/box this afternoon. I passed because .26/round for fmj just seems to be high, considering it's really only worth about a dime/round

These days, that's a great price. Gotta love BiMart for not jacking up their prices. The fact that they are keeping prices down makes you wonder about all the other stores charging $20+ for a box of 115gr 9mm ball.

NONE of the GOP has ever come close to this. Only one party can be counted on to almost always refuse to admit they lost and refuse to concede. So they project this to Trump all the time. Clinton is still running around saying she won as is that woman who ran for Governor in one of the southern states. She got trounced and is still running around saying she won. We regularly see elections where the GOP person wins. So they start re counting ballots. They will suddenly find boxes of ballots in some car, in the alley, behind a burger joint, and they just keep re counting till the D wins. Still the GOP just shrug and walk away. Let the GOP pull something like that and wath the media catch fire.

That's how Al Franken got his senate seat, isn't it?

 

[Alexx1401]

These days, that's a great price. Gotta love BiMart for not jacking up their prices. The fact that they are keeping prices down makes you wonder about all the other stores charging $20+ for a box of 115gr 9mm ball.

That's how Al Franken got his senate seat, isn't it?

Yes he did, WA state did it too when Dino won. The incumbent said it was a tie, they started recounting the votes till she won. Dino shrugged and walked away. If it had been the other way? If Dino had been the incumbent and pulled this? The press here would have started riots.