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Weapons VS Gear..

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Godfather911, May 9, 2012.

  1. Godfather911

    Godfather911 Springfield, OR. Member

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    The title of the thread could be a little deceiving. My question to you: Would you rather spend more on a "hotrodded out" weapon"S" and do not care to spend so much for the equipment that carries it. Spend 2K on a decked out AR with the tried and true optics, surpressed..etc and 20bux on old "782" or "duece" gear..IE, magazine carriers,SAW pouch modded to carry IFAK,steel Vietnam canteen,..maybe an Israeli gas mask. The gear that serves it's purpose, NOT like important,life saving gear as an IFAK. BUT the carrier..etc..

    OR

    Try to balance that 2K between a in the middle, decent AR and "good enough" optic system and the rest on say, HSGI full battle rattle with blastiic plates...or which ever company that produces fine field gear you use.

    The reason I ask this,or started this thread, being we are here in the U.S. and not over in the middle east or national gaurd unit with Uncle sam putting down the coin and providing most of our "issue" or good enough,to get the job done and we buy extra buttwipes.... What gear would you deam necessary in this environment. In Natural disaster, waiting for the government to step in hopefully soon to aid in civil order once again. Or, just because this is the way you like to conduct business. This is a thread for whatever the reason you enjoy firearms. Range gear can be included also...

    You can include whatever weapons or gear you think or have and why...

    Carry on.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2012
  2. OFADAN

    OFADAN Brownsville, OR Well-Known Member

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    Or for serious consideration….should one also throw into this fiscal equation Weapon(s) vs. Gear (both considered 'hardware') vs. Training (considered software)? I just finished reading The Red Circle about the journey of a young SEAL Sniper going through his training and prep serving in Afghanistan then later returning stateside to be invited to completely rebuild the SEAL sniper school in order to “kick it up a notch.” He and his senior leaders realized to be successful in the mission they needed to emphasize more on the critical importance of quality training and its contribution to the successful outcome of the mission. Even Marcus Luttrell acknowledges this new specialized training he received from this particular school and this man (the author) saved his life.

    IMHO the question or equation ought to be weighted as “Hardware vs. Software". The older I get the closer the mantra "the more you know and are able to do the less gear you need" tends to bare some truth. Without the equal financial and time investment in training: is like having a $2000 gun with tier 1 gear without the full capability to use it competently when it is needed most or perhaps better is the analogy of a 16 year-old with a learner’s permit driving an Indy 500 Race car to school. The hardware capability far supersedes the capacity and capability of the driver/operator and is obviously overkill for this youth’s mission. Wouldn’t this 16 year-old be better served with more training & experience and less vehicle until he/she can fully utilize and appreciate it capability?

    Time and time again, I see people with literally thousands of dollars’ worth of top of the line weapons and gear only to be out-performed by some guy who has the most rudimentary of tools but has instead invested a lifetime of $ and time in developing his skills, knowledge and behaviors to function in a bad situation. The one key thing I've learned from examples from the Red Circle, or even from successful businesses is those who excel never stop training - ever. And they don't use the cop-out "well I was in the military once and they taught me all I need to know". Those who invest in the continious developing of their skills, knowldge and behaviors "training repeatively-over and over and over" again generally survive and rise to the top regardless of the hardware they use. It must be known "possession of top of the line gear doesn't automatically equate to competence."

    I'll never forget the one Sniper/Long Range class we did in Bend. Thousands of dollars worth of high end guns and optics...only to be far out performed by guy using a stock Remington .308 and a fixed 4x Leupold. Some of the students had more invested in their Nightforce and S/Bender scopes than I do in my truck only to be FAR out performed by Garth and his "measly" 4x fixed. It was a sight to behold - a valuable lesson on the critical importance of software!

    My observation is, generally for most of us, the ratio of investment and commitment in purchasing “Hardware” is greatly disproportional to the level of investment and commitment in the development of our “Software.” And generally for me the selection/purchasing of hardware is “important” but the continious/on-going development of “software” is absolutely mission critical.
     
    beavernation, drand, MikeE and 3 others like this.
  3. RedneckRampage

    RedneckRampage Newberg Well-Known Member

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    I prefer to have one rifle and one handgun that I am competent with, that I can shoot well, that is reliable, and that is affordable. My go to guns are my Glock 23 and my AK47. I have $550 in the Glock with the sights, and $600 in the AK. I could have spent $1500 on a decent 1911, but my $550 Glock works just as well for ME. I shoot Glocks the best out of any handgun I've shot. My AK is the same thing, it's simple, I've never had an issue with it, and it was affordable. I spend my extra money on magazines, good quality gear that I NEED, like mag carriers, holsters, slings etc.. I don't care for optics, just a front tritium sight and black rear sight. I do plan on buying an AR in the next few months, but I'm not going to spend $2000 on an LWRC or Noveske, I'll likely buy a $1200 Colt, RRA, or LMT. Dan is right about the training part, too. I really need, and want, to get to a few or OFA's classes, but I first want to get my "go to" weapons dialed in where im 100% happy with them, then train with them, atleast one rifle and one handgun class, but hopefully many more! If iwas rich, sure, I'd buy the best of everything, BUT, I'm not! LOL.
     
  4. Godfather911

    Godfather911 Springfield, OR. Member

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    I totally agree with what you said Dan. The simplest way I can put it is, It's nice to have "nice thing's" but with the proper AND constitant training, those "nice thing's" just become "more useful" in the hand's of a highly educated shooter .Gear is manufactured anymore to make the average "once in awhile" shooter believe he need's no FURTHER training then to Be able to load the weapon,point and fire. The products will do most of the work for them.
    I preach to my 11 and 12yr old son's, "An education is something that no one can take away from you, they can take your car, your house etc..but if your smart enough, you can get them all back." also, never to give up either,these always a way..
    When I was in the service, we had no high speed,low drag PERSONAL gear. It was standard TA issue we modded and made it work a little better. no REAL optics, iron sights..We did have thermal scopes, but didn't like to lug them around or even mount them, they were way too heavy. A boulder looked like a person at night because of the heat it radiated off from collecting earlier that day. Hiding under your poncho and poncho liner in "ranger graves" would semi-defeat "standard" issue thermal scope mounted Thermals mounted on M1A Abrams or other bigger vehicles would pick it up better. Anyway's...
    I was just wondering who would rather spend more on there firearms then on there shooting rigs or range gear.

    As for myself, the priorities are, but not in order, A decent long gun, one that is cheap enough to shoot for MORE training and can be used in home/civil defense. It's just an AK-74, 2point sling (not needed but 20bux won't break the bank.) and a "mojo" rear peep sight. I found an affordable romanian folding stock I just mounted. Having the ability to break down the length and transport is nice. I am looking for a decent used optic right now. A Red dot. I won't spend $500 though..
    I do like AR's but I shot those soo much and cleaned them more...If I want one, I can go out and pick one that will work with no problems. AK's, I did shoot them while in the service, but not as much, they do hold up to there history etc.. I
    just want something that I knew could get the job done,be reliable and fire in adverse conditions. Without alot of maintance is just a plus. My son's can shoot the 545, my wife can..I can buy more rounds,for the time being.

    I have a 12ga. Mossberg that I have had for over 17yrs now. Haven't fired it as much as I should, but I feel I am
    proficient enough to pick it up and defend my home or whatnot. It has a wooden furniture.I like it that way incase I have to "butt-stroke" a perp OR the slim chance I have to be able to fire on my back with the butt placed on the floor. it work's for me. We had a "pistol grip" issue AND a Mossberg, similar to what I have now, that we used while deployed. It was used to breach or clear buildings. Mostly the pistol grip. It was hung by a 550cord loop off our eagle day pack.

    Right now, I am borrowing one of my close friend's Glock17s until I get my M&P9 out of layaway next week. That will be the weapon I ail shoot the most because it will be carried the most.

    Being in Iraq or Afghan or wherever we where was a different story then what is going on here in the U.S. The tool's I used there aren't really needed here, for me. My personal gear used to shoot my pistol is Kydex pouch used on a
    Jones belt, small flashlight,1 spare mag, *a form of mace* ( I feel, a gun should be the last resort but sometimes its the only resort.) and a few other bit's...

    One thing I do carry, is a personal size IFAK in my pocket I put togther. I have a bigger one I carry in our vehicles. I am a strong believer in them. More time then none, you will encounter a personS needing medical aid then you will have to draw your weapon..in a natural disaster or a neighbor whom might have been hurt, be prepared and proficient in 1st aid.

    My shooting gear is my old PERSONAL "duece gear" I used while I was in. An eagle belt pad secued to a WW2 web belt, H-harness with extra padding tapped to the shoulders. Used issue USMC LBT dump pouch,( a friend who is still in sent me this piece) I carry my AK mag's in it. And 4 m-16 pouches that I modified. Newer bungee retention straps to secure mag's while the flap is open. The flap has been modded to stay open. They are a pain when there "new". I keep extra rags in one, lube for my weapons, cleaning/bore punch...treats or goodies in the other. I don't have my pistol mounted on my web belt at the range, I don't use a "drop holster" either..anyway's..It's old, out dated, smells like a dead cat's *** but it work's...the newer gear that is out now is nice, but I don't "need" it. This gear work's for me...I'd rather put that extra money into a class...
    I am at work right now, so I appologize for this quick post, it's pretty rough TBH.

    For an AR...I like the S&W M&P sport. It is cheap BUT effective, the lack of dust cover doesn't bother me or the ""JAM O MATIC" button AKA "forward assist" either. I think it's a great bang for the buck gun and with a decent optic, make a better range gun. Throw on a $20 sling to carry it around, good to go. I might pick one up latter....
    Just my opinion though....