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Weapon mounted remote controlled aerial vehicles?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Daev, Sep 7, 2011.

  1. Daev

    Daev Portland, Oregon, United States Member

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    I'm curious as to what the legality is (or rather if anyone knows if there is any legal precedent) for civilian ownership of UAVs (From remote controlled air planes to hover crafts) mounted with firearms and targeting systems?

    I'm planning on making some DIY drones in the near future and rigging up an airgun setup so as to do some dogfights with friends, and I got to thinking, "Would it be legal to add real guns to this?"

    I'm presently digging across the internet looking for more info, but I figured I'd ask here as well.
     
  2. yotehunter

    yotehunter north west Active Member

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    sorta screws with the rules knowing your backstop, or knowing what is beyond your target, or don't point at anything you don't intend to destroy... Sounds like a bad idea to me.
     
  3. Daev

    Daev Portland, Oregon, United States Member

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    Depends on the optics system and its use.

    I mean, obviously, you wouldn't want to use real guns for dogfights between RC vehicles.
     
  4. nubus

    nubus Guest

    Hovercrafts inside a 4 foot berm sounds cool.
    Not so sure about the airplane idea though...

    P.S. Most jurisdictions consider pellet guns as real guns in legal speak.
     
  5. darkminstrel

    darkminstrel PDX Well-Known Member

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    If you are thinking about ever using it as a hunting device I can tell you that most states have laws against automated hunting. That includes pulling a trigger via remote. No links to point you to at the moment, but I'm sure they're a quick search away.
     
  6. Daev

    Daev Portland, Oregon, United States Member

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    I'm not sure if Oregon is one of those states... at least it doesn't say anything on the Department of Fish and Wildlife website about it: ODFW: Weapons Restrictions

    Asking around about this, I'm also hearing stories about folks building these for Boar hunting in other parts of the country.
     
  7. donMiguel

    donMiguel SouthKingWA Active Member

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    One place to look is in FAA regulations. They have concerns about what gets in the air, and how high, and how close. They may have "guidance" on arming platforms.
     
  8. Daev

    Daev Portland, Oregon, United States Member

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    Rule 2-i in this list, http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/105.pdf, seems to prohibit it.

    That's too bad.
     
  9. pchewn

    pchewn Beaverton Oregon USA Well-Known Member

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    I read an article about scale boats that are radio-controlled and shoot each other to sink in the pond. It is a real club/hobby/sport. I just looked it up, here is the link: BATTLE STATIONS! They shoot CO2 powered guns and "cannons" up to 1/4" dia. Sounds similar to what you might have in mind.

    I have participated in "slope combat" where we fly RC gliders and try to knock each other down. One event even had "anti-aircraft" fire -- from a paintball gun. Loads of fun!
     
  10. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Where does it say that is law? Looks like some sort of ethics code for competition or club rules

    I'm going to get into UAV hovercraft with CC cameras for surveillance/security out at our rural home site
     
    Nwcid and (deleted member) like this.
  11. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    You should just breed more kids and let them patrol the place, with the rule of, "you shoot it you eat it"... LOL!
     
  12. gnarl

    gnarl Sequim, WA Member

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    Maybe softair pellets, I would think anything of greater density/velocity could be a real hazard.
     
  13. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    A few questions

    Do you currently fly R/C airplanes? How long? How much actual flight time?

    I fly control line I used to fly R/C in control line we use streamers of creape paper out behind the planes to simulate combat. The goal is to cut the streamer with the prop.

    And I can tell you take trying to do what you are thinking of will take extreme piloting skills. R/C models typically fly at around 60+ MPH 100+ is common. If you think you can watch a TV screen and fly the plane that is vitually impossible as you will only have an idea of the attitude of the aircraft if it's pointing at the ground.

    And at 60mph if your pointed at the ground in a couple seconds your in the ground.

    To attempt to maintain control if the aircraft within your flight box (the imaginary box in the sky that you can see the aircraft well enough from the pilots position to control it) maintain a visual on the target aircraft and then watch some targeting view will be near impossible. if you ever get a hit on another aircraft it will be pure dumb luck.

    If you are going to attempt to use something like an Airsoft gun then using the pellet spds of 150 to 250fps that a pistol lenght barrel electric airsoft gun shoots at. The with the aircraft traveling at 60mph = 88fps or 100mph = 146fps

    If you go with something like a pellet or BB gun then you will have the trouble of carrying the weight and dealing with the recoil.

    You pellet is going to be dropping in speed to as much as half its speed. Within a few yards of the muzzle once the air gets ahold of it.

    If you use something like a .22 you are now talking about a serious liability. Since a round even if it hit the other model could still travel up to a mile or more depending on the attitute of the aircraft.
     
  14. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    STOP KILLING THIS MAN'S DREAM OF R/C AIR SUPERIORITY!!! :bluelaugh:
     
  15. hermannr

    hermannr Okanogan Highlands Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Paint balls, maybe bb's, but real guns? No way. You would have absolutely no idea where that bullet will end up, and you will be liable for anything it hits. The civil (and possible criminal) liability would be way more than you want to face.

    Sorry I can't find the reference, but a few years ago, in WI, somehow a .45 bullet left a licensed range and hit a woman over 1 mile away. The range was shut down. And that range had been open for something like 29 years with no problems.

    With the mapping programs available today, it is not even difficult to trace where a stray bullet came from. Don't do it.
     
  16. Swedish K

    Swedish K SW Washington Moderator Staff Member

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    Similar accidents at the San Quentin range - they have replaced it with an indoor range for pistol and put up skyscreens on the rifle range as a result of allowing 2 federal agencies borrow the range - in both instances the fed officers were playing tuck and roll / shoot stuff that wasn't part of the approved training - one agency shot up a school bus or two in the nearby district bus lot, the other shot up a studio building at Industrial Light and Magic at skywalker ranch - George Lucas' studios.

    While I agree that they have some pretty good technology out there now for finding the point of origin for gunshots I would be amazed if they didn't say "the software must have a glitch - it says the shot came from 400 feet above the ground and about 3200 feet north east - there isn't a radio tower over there - must be something wrong with the data or software..."
     
  17. Daev

    Daev Portland, Oregon, United States Member

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    Feel free to rain on it, I'll be the first to admit that it's kind of crazy.

    Good points.

    Thanks.
     
  18. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    The other legal trouble is you will run into is with the ATF and firing device. The ATF pretty much rules that almost any electrical device used to fire the gun = machinegun even with a momentary switch. Has to due with "single shot/pull of trigger" thing. Cant find the link right now.
     
  19. dolooper

    dolooper Coast Range, or thereabouts Well-Known Member

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