We need to right the NWFA ship

[elsullo]

I am very grateful that this site is here, and have enjoyed it very much. I check in every day, and LIKE IT THE WAY IT IS. I say ignore most of the complainers! If they don't like classifieds then they can just skip them; myself I love them! My only issue with the classifieds is when people are too lazy to close their threads when the item sells or is withdrawn. Perhaps there should be a three-month expiration of ads, like Outdoor Trader has.

Negative posts are VERY rare, and usually put down tastefully by other posters, so that everyone learns something anyway. I say, just keep up the good work!..........................elsullo

 

[Lars]

I like the classified section the way it is. I browse once or twice a day. It's like window shopping.

 

[Doubletap]

I like the classifieds..pretty much just the way they are..with one exception.. I would like to see sold/traded items deleted..rather than just closed.. As for the discussions..I don't get involved in too many.. I'm older than most on here..and have formed VERY firm points of view..based on those years.. As a consequence..or a benefit..whichever way you choose to look at it..I am as politically incorrect as possible.. Better to just keep my trap shut..

 

[pdxjohann]

Joey, and the rest of you fellow members have done me a service with your help and knowledge. Thank you.

When I log in then click the "new posts" button, the majority of posts are classifieds which cloud the new posts in discussion forums. Perhaps someone knows how I can keep those two categories of new posts distinct?

Best regards to all, Johann

 

[treemanx]

If you want to keep them separate just browse off the mainpage. It keeps the Classifieds at the bottom of the page, and the Discussion at the top. Thats what I do, I never look on the New Posts screen.

 

[aflineman]

We have this in our mission statement: "Provide a family friendly online community for firearm enthusiasts of the Northwest"....

Yet we continue to see this in the classifieds:
http://www.northwestfirearms.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=19

I very much enjoy the classifieds as well as the rest of the site. I think the popularity of the classifieds is due to the fact that you can do a FTF with most anyone who posts. Kind of nice to inspect what you are thinking of buying before you buy. I would really like to keep this site local. I can go innumerable other places on the internet if I want to speak with (and trade with) folks from out of the area.

 

[Oro]

Unlike others, I probably found this site in a unique way. I was planning on starting a forum for Northwest shooters, having seen some very robust and helpful ones across the country, like in PA, CA, etc. I had given some thought about how to organize the forum, etc. I envisioned. I made two thorough searches for a regional forum to make sure no one else had done it, and it was only on THR I saw a mention of this forum. I was disappointed not to get to launch my own, but I was also pleased to see a well though-out and robust forum here.

So I can imagine very clearly the frustration of the owner/founders at seeing it getting a little one-sided. I've thought about it and think this is the answer:

1) Sit tight. The forum's young, and there's still a shake-down period. Those that are here to buy/sell only will eventually go elsewhere. But tighten up the classified posting rules (more on that below).

2) Implement a minimum post requirement like some others do. It works pretty well at 1911forum.com.

3) Temporarily stop gun ads, just allow accessories and reloading supplies. Re-open the gun trading later when you feel things are where you want.

I think 1) is probably the best option for now. I see lots of superfluous ads (out of the marketplace/too high), and too much chatter. I think tightening up the posting rules might help - only one ad per poster per week, no bumping (this works in some other forums), strong moderation of extraneous comments, etc.

Option 2) is not as onerous as you might think. It will force people into the forums, there may be some shallow posts, but some of those people will also pay attention to the forums and drift back periodically. So it will work both ways.

Option 3) is high risk, as it may drive lots of people away. But it's always an option. The 1911forum.com is by far the best Colt/1911 forum going, and it banned gun sales shortly after opening in 2000 (I have been a member there since that far back).

Those are my thoughts on the subject and I wish you the best in building up the forums to the participation level you hope for and I know the gun community in this region can support.

 

[eldbillbo]

well i think the whole min post idea to posting to the classifieds is a bad idea . the classifieds bring people in i refered some people here who were trying to sneak guns onto the CL classifieds sure some posted and moved on while others became part of the furniture here .

i like it the way it is why change something cause a few guys don't like it and are too lazy to click to see the whole board

however i'm one for a compermise to make everyone happy

ar15.com has a very successful classified section take some of the basic rules

72 hr bump to top

only 3 adds per first 3 pages

if someone has to ask a question in the post rather then messaging the seller then the seller can't bump it again to answer rather they have to edit the post no bumping the ad to say sold or traded (as if you made a touchdown or something . the whole world does not need to know)

also rather than just locking we should be able to revise the subject line for example if some one wants to note reduced or sold or somthing sold but other still available this would help reduce new post also people may start posting prices in the subject line as well i won't post a price cause i may later reduce it

also a very important rule No ad stomping if you don't like the price laugh at it or grin and bare it or and move along as so many have said

 

[CaughtSteelin]

I admit I came here for the classifieds. I do try and visit at least once a day. I have read almost every forum topic on this site. I am not a big poster for mainly not really knowing what I am talking about. I grew up fishing and only started getting into guns and hunting a few years ago. SO I am still learning...

I do like seeing whats for sale. Mostly to drool as this is a hard time for me and others.

It would be nice to meet up with others on this site.

 

[eldbillbo]

maybe have a newbie shoot i see newbies joining in the introduction forum and lots have questions . It should be a educational shoot focusing on safety and give newbies a chance try out some different types of firearms

the only problem i see is with ammo prices the way they are its gonna have to be a BYOA or buy it there


our church had a shoot and a bunch of non gun owners came out, after shooting several handguns and some rifles most of them went shopping for their own.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

...but understand I am speaking as someone who has spoken to several ex-members in person and corresponded via e-mail with even more of them that have similar experiences to myself.

A lot of people in this thread are missing the point. The problem is not whether the classifieds are functioning properly. The problem is why are the classifieds all that is functioning on this forum. Where is all the conversation outside of "for sale" ads.

When this site started there was a lot of effort being put into it by multiple people. We wanted to see it succeed so we posted often and started a lot of discussions. Unfortunately it became clear very early on that the tone of the board was very "bible school" in nature. People were chastised and punished for comments that could be made on Saturday morning television. People were issued warnings for language based on text and not context. Heck, I could not even post a picture of three Smiths called "smitht h r eesome.jpg" because it included the word "t h r e e some." That is the level of puritan censorship occurring on this board.

Gun enthusiasts are many things, but tolerant of censorship to such a degree is not usually one of them. Blocking strong vulgarity or removing incredibly offensive posts is one thing, but trying to pretend a gun forum is a site for children is a flawed concept. If the board monitors wanted to start a "tea party site" that is fine...but if they want to create a gun forum and then impose such restrictive guidelines and use such heavy handed monitoring techniques they have to be willing to watch it fail...as they are now doing.

You do have a small core of people who I am sure are very happy with the restrictive atmoshpere of this forum the way it is now, but it is very obvious that those people are not sufficient to keep the forum afloat.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see NWFA get back on track but I do not see it happening. I had this very discussion with Joey and other staff members several months ago and warned of this being a possibility. I mentioned that I was not going to participate in open conversation anymore and that I knew of several other people that would also not participate for similar reasons but those complaints fell on deaf ears.

 

[Bend]

Sure, hand holding around a campfire or at the range singing kumbuyya will fix the site.





Sorry, Joey, I could not resist. PM on the way, maybe.

ETA: Well said PP.

 

[eldbillbo]

yeh what ever happened to sweetbeard i miss razzing him about the beer he drank

he was one of the fun guys i assume he crossed that fine line?

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

ETA: Well said PP.

Thanks. I am just repeating what I have already said before. This is the PNW. If you want to start a gun forum and then run it with such conservative and puritan guidelines you have to accept alienating the portion of the population that are not christian, conservative, puritan, etc...and that is a huge portion of the population here. Even the local people that are all those things do not tend to be the "my way or shut up" types so common in other areas of the country.

I was speaking to some Pink Pistol members the other day in Portland and when I mentioned this forum they referred to it as "OregonChristianSoldiers.com" and made it clear they did not feel welcome here.

 

[Bend]

"puritan" & "(... Christian ...)"

The ban hammer cometh!

 

[eldbillbo]

Thanks. I am just repeating what I have already said before. This is the PNW. If you want to start a gun forum and then run it with such conservative and puritan guidelines you have to accept alienating the portion of the population that are not christian, conservative, puritan, etc...and that is a huge portion of the population here. Even the local people that are all those things do not tend to be the "my way or shut up" types so common in other areas of the country.

I was speaking to some Pink Pistol members the other day in Portland and when I mentioned this forum they referred to it as "OregonChristianSoldiers.com" and made it clear they did not feel welcome here.

Lets just blame the weather on the Christians as well

 

[treemanx]

PlayboyPenguin--

I have to respectfully dissagree with your thoughts on the issue.
#1. "The problem is not whether the classifieds are functioning properly." Thats right, its no question that the classifieds are functioning a little TOO well for some peoples taste. Some have posted here things like, "If it aint broke dont fix it", well that isnt the point either. The point is the concern over whether or not to continue to allow the classified ads to out perform the discussion areas. IMO, I think that this site should be whatever the members here need it to be, and continue to allow it to be an awesome reasource.

#2. Unfortunately it became clear very early on that the tone of the board was very "bible school" in nature. Ive seen you argue this before, and I cant understand why. Are you seriously saying that you cant handle not being able to use profanity? I swear like a sailor most of the time, but I also have the respect not to cuss in front of people whom it might offend. Joey had it in mind as shown by his rules that he wanted this site to have a family atmosphere, where a dad or mom who was a member could put their son up on their knee and look through gun ads together. Or be able to have discussions with their older children about topics off this site. Also to realize that NOT everyone is OK with reading and listening to cuss words or rated R kinda stuff. I think that is a very respectable decision on Joeys part, and the logical next step in that line of thinking is to implement a rule banning the use of profanity in any form. Perfectly reasonable IMO.

#3 Gun enthusiasts are many things, but tolerant of censorship to such a degree is not usually one of them. Really? Ive never seen a gun owner I know have a problem with not using profanity around my or other peoples kids! Or old school elderly people, or people that everyone knows just plain dont want to hear it. You are transposing your line of thinking onto "gun enthusiasts", and the fact is that you cant generalize people like that just to make your arguement sound more credible. You said tolerant to censorship, well it depends what kind. Censorship of cuss words? No problem, I can have that respect and I think its not a problem for most reasonable people either.

#4 and use such heavy handed monitoring techniques they have to be willing to watch it fail...as they are now doing. What??? There is no problem with the site "failing"! The classifieds are "too sucessful" and the discussion areas are not keeping pace. Has nothing to do with failing. It especially doesnt have anything to do with whether or not memebers are allowed to cuss and use profanity or not! If there are members who really cant have respect for the clean atmosphere in NWFA and want to leave because of it, they are probably people that wouldnt have been productive here anyways IMO. I mean think about what your saying man! Imagine walking into a mom and pop gun store, where people are browsing(some with their kids), and some are talking amongst themselves, and you come walking in saying F this and F that, holy S F me in the A! Do you think that the store owner would want to kick you out?? You would be on the outside of that store with a quickness. Its not about censorship bud, its about having a little respect for others.

#5 I was speaking to some Pink Pistol members the other day in Portland and when I mentioned this forum they referred to it as "OregonChristianSoldiers.com" and made it clear they did not feel welcome here. Why??? Because of the guidelines of conduct that allow for people to be respectful of eachother? Give me a break. Your comments are self explanitory.

I know you say that there are others who feel the same way you do. But honestly, your the only one I really ever have heard complaining about this. The "issue" that people are having with the classifieds getting bigger and more active than the discussion areas I dont believe has anything whatsoever to do with your "issue". Try opening up a thread to discuss it, instead of bending this problem to use as an arguement to justify your issue.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

The point is the concern over whether or not to continue to allow the classified ads to out perform the discussion areas.

if the board atmosphere is so stifling that people do not want to participate in open discussion then what other choice is there besides dissolving the board? Treating symptoms will not solve the problems the forum is facing.

Ive seen you argue this before, and I cant understand why. Are you seriously saying that you cant handle not being able to use profanity?

Do you really consider the word "th r e e some" to be "profanity?" I think you would be in the minority if you do...and that is one of the main problems. The forum has tried to please the minority and alienated the majority.

There is no problem with the site "failing"! The classifieds are "too sucessful" and the discussion areas are not keeping pace.

If that were true this discussion would not be needed. The fact is open discussion is so weak that the board has become nothing but ads. If you do like many boards and not include ads in the recent searches you would seldom see any activity at all.

Why??? Because of the guidelines of conduct that allow for people to be respectful of eachother?

No, not at all. It is because the guidelines are so restrictive that no variance from a very narrow idea of what is acceptable is tolerated. That type of intolerance is not welcomed by very many people.

The very fact that the problems exist, the board is not prospering, and people continue to make excuses and bury their head in the sand simply because the current conditions favor their own opinions does not look very promising for this forum.

 

[treemanx]

The very fact that the problems exist, the board is not prospering, and people continue to make excuses and bury their head in the sand simply because the current conditions favor their own opinions does not look very promising for this forum.

This board is not prospering? Arent we getting ready to crest some 3000 members? Seems to me like your grasping at straws here bud. This site actually has been growing and progressing ever since Ive been here. Im not usually one to be a member of an online forum, but I spend alot of time on this site because it IS those things.

Do I consider the word thr e e som e to be a profanity......Well yes as a matter of fact, if used in the context of sexuality. It describles a sexual act, does it not? Gimme a break man, your really grasping.

It is because the guidelines are so restrictive that no variance from a very narrow idea of what is acceptable is tolerated. That type of intolerance is not welcomed by very many people.

I havent felt restricted in the least. I got points taken away for using a cuss word one time even, and I understand why. But I know the parameters that this site has and am perfectly able to enjoy myself here and stay within the rules.

 

[Joe Link]

First of all, the site is not going to fail. This is a problem, yes, and left unchecked it would be very bad for NWFA, but that's why we're having this discussion in this thread.

I really don't understand what's so restrictive about this site, nor why it's so hard to understand why we want to maintain a child friendly atmosphere here. Example of why this is important: we've been considering sponsoring the Eddie Eagle program in local schools. If teachers, parents, and possibly students visit this site and see talk of a *********, how is that going to reflect on all of us? You cannot bring the idea of firearm ownership into the mainstream in large Northwest cities like Seattle and Portland (which are decidedly anti-gun) and not make this family friendly. Firearm ownership, use, and enjoyment is not reserved for adults only, so neither should the site.

* Penguin, I understand now what you meant by not taking the context into consideration when you were referring to your three pistols. I believed that to be an innuendo, and if it wasn't, I apologize.