We Live in a Democracy!!

[fd15k]

My conclusion is that we are a republic with some democratic aspects and that all would be well if we had closed the immigration floodgates long ago, as in the post 1870 era. This nation was crated for the posterity of the founders, who could understand and support our form of government

BTW wikipedia has a lot of error and false conclusions, I only use it once in awhile if I'm in a hurry

Technically we are both a democracy (indirect) and a republic, because :

Democracy is a form of government in which all eligible citizens participate equally—either directly or through elected representatives—in the proposal, development, and creation of laws. It encompasses social, economic and cultural conditions that enable the free and equal practice of political self-determination.

A republic is a form of government in which affairs of state are a "public matter" (Latin: res publica), not the private concern of the rulers, in which public offices are consequently appointed or elected rather than privately accommodated (i.e., through inheritance or divine mandate). In modern times, the common definition of a republic is a government which excludes a monarch.

When it comes to the second statement, I can neither prove or disprove you. I don't know if I would be better off today if I haven't made some mistakes in my life - I like where I am now, and it's very possible that my current position is a product of previous acts, including the mistakes.

Wikipedia is open for a reason. People constantly update it, provide citations, challenge statements. Whenever unsure about a statement, look at the citations. I can't help if one rejects certain citations for the reasons of bias though.

 

[Martini_Up]

No, we are not technically a democratic republic. We are technically a constitutional republic because the US Constitution trumps whatever stupid law the people or it's representatives may try to implement and when the stupid law goes before the Supreme Court and they rule it's stupid based upon the Constitution (supreme law of the land) and it goes away... at least that's how it goes in theory. In practice, we are living in a mixed republic, oligarchy, and dictatorship. When Congress makes laws authorized by the Constitution, it is a constitutional republic. When Congress exceeds the Constitution and passes laws anyway, it is a tyrannical republic. When the Supreme Court makes laws it is an oligarchy. When Obama makes laws by executive order it is a dictatorship.

Our job is to know the right way - republic - and to call out when it's moving the wrong way - democracy (or other). Don't accept a blending of democratic republic (of china, n.korea, e. germany, congo, etc..) as that is taking away individual freedom and empowering the group, which as our founding fathers knew (specifically James Madison, Federalist Paper #10) would lead to tyranny.

We have a republic... if we can keep it.

And folks, using Wikipedia is tantamount to using Cliff's Notes... lazy. If you must use it, do so as a means to find other direct sources (Founding fathers writings for example) vs. opinions of someone in their parents basement with a computer and an internet connection.

 

[U201491]

No, we are not technically a democratic republic. We are technically a constitutional republic because the US Constitution trumps whatever stupid law the people or it's representatives may try to implement and when the stupid law goes before the Supreme Court and they rule it's stupid based upon the Constitution (supreme law of the land) and it goes away... at least that's how it goes in theory. In practice, we are living in a mixed republic, oligarchy, and dictatorship. When Congress makes laws authorized by the Constitution, it is a constitutional republic. When Congress exceeds the Constitution and passes laws anyway, it is a tyrannical republic. When the Supreme Court makes laws it is an oligarchy. When Obama makes laws by executive order it is a dictatorship.

Our job is to know the right way - republic - and to call out when it's moving the wrong way - democracy (or other). Don't accept a blending of democratic republic (of china, n.korea, e. germany, congo, etc..) as that is taking away individual freedom and empowering the group, which as our founding fathers knew (specifically James Madison, Federalist Paper #10) would lead to tyranny.

We have a republic... WE WILL KEEP IT !
And folks, using Wikipedia is tantamount to using Cliff's Notes... lazy. If you must use it, do so as a means to find other direct sources (Founding fathers writings for example) vs. opinions of someone in their parents basement with a computer and an internet connection.

Fixed it ..

 

[fd15k]

And folks, using Wikipedia is tantamount to using Cliff's Notes... lazy. If you must use it, do so as a means to find other direct sources (Founding fathers writings for example) vs. opinions of someone in their parents basement with a computer and an internet connection.

Ah, man. I am full of bubblegum either way, doesn't matter what I cite

 

[DMax]

And this is why we are a republic again. ITs the rule of law thing.

Congressmen Want to Bring Obama to Court for Not Faithfully Executing Laws | The Weekly Standard

 

[Caveman Jim]

And this is why we are a republic again. ITs the rule of law thing.

Congressmen Want to Bring Obama to Court for Not Faithfully Executing Laws | The Weekly Standard

I say lets get down to it, this jester in chief has shown repeatedly that he has no regard for America's BOR's by all the EO's written in 5 years. I cannot believe that he is still in office (or alive still)!!!

 

[DMax]

I believe the obammy lovability on your hands and knees love affair is about over. 2014 will prove it. Then we will really find out what republicans are made of.

 

[CounterOfBeans]

Hey Martini... thanks so much for putting this issue on the table. It's such a perfect canary in the mine indicator of things when we gun lover types, generally a conservative bunch, can't even agree amongst ourselves on THE most fundamental aspect of our government, i.e. what it is. I'll put it on the table that for a group of people who should be on the same page about something like this, our disconnect should sound an alarm for us. Considering the "safety in numbers" principle, if we birds of a feather can't flock together, maybe it's prudent to re-direct some of our attention on why.

You mentioned it and I believe someone else chimed in too, but the fact is is that we mostly all belong to the dubious club called high school "graduates". It's worth taking notice that even for people who most likely all took a "US Government" class in high school, their education was apparently so thin that as adults, they can't agree on what a "Republic" is. Simultaneously, the thinness of that educational impression clearly also provided fertile ground for the minds of many other high school students to be won over by the greater-good, socialistic siren songs of statism. Which of course, is another level of divide and conquer. What tyrant needs overt hostility to overthrow a nation when the people themselves can be trained from their most intellectually defenseless years to celebrate the fashion of their own greater-good subjugation.

I "graduated" from Oregon's public school system myself and after having done a lot of impromptu interviews with people I bump into in my daily errands over the years, I have observed that it's pretty consistent that public schools don't give us much opportunity to actually dig in and study founding era documents and case law. That's no revelation of course, but for Oregonians, maybe ORS 336.057 and 336.067 is. See below:

"Chapter 336 — Conduct of Schools Generally

336.057 Courses in Constitution and history of United States. In all public schools courses of instruction shall be given in the Constitution of the United States and in the history of the United States. These courses shall:
(1) Begin not later than the opening of the eighth grade and shall continue in grades 9 through 12.
(2) Be required in all public universities listed in ORS 352.002, except the Oregon Health and Science University, and in all state and local institutions that provide education for patients or inmates to an extent to be determined by the Superintendent of Public Instruction. [Formerly 336.230; 1977 c.226 §1; 1999 c.1023 §1; 2011 c.637 §114]

336.067 Topics given special emphasis in instruction. (1) In public schools special emphasis shall be given to instruction in:
(a) Honesty, morality, courtesy, obedience to law, respect for the national flag, the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Oregon, respect for parents and the home, the dignity and necessity of honest labor and other lessons that tend to promote and develop an upright and desirable citizenry. (inter alia)"

Notice how Oregon's Legislature went out of their way at the end of 067 to actually declare the purpose for enacting these laws, to wit: "to promote and develop an upright and desirable citizenry." And they deemed that to achieve that goal, public school students would need a minimum of 5 years of "courses of instruction" on the subject of the Constitution. If I were in a generous mood, I could maybe recollect a loose tally of about a month or two or actual class time where the Constitution itself was the topic of study. Most people I've talked about this issue are the reason why I say "generous" because most them have claimed even less than that.

So if classroom reality in Oregon reveals itself to be in naked, gross non-compliance with a classroom law that is intended to "to promote and develop an upright and desirable citizenry.", then what does the historical record demonstrate to us about the function or even purpose of public schools when it comes to their role in producing informed, competent citizens? As a side note, yes I have had a lengthy email conversation with the lady who is the head curriculum planner for social sciences in Oregon and she conceded, after prodding, that "we" (meaning her and her colleagues) are in her words "well aware" of 336.057. And to look at the legislative history of this law on the ORS website, you see that it was amended in 2011 to limit the Colleges that are subject to it to major State Universities. Which means this law is also fresh in the minds of Oregon's Legislators. The 1976 case of Wilson v. Chancellor and 1980 Attorney General's Opinion #7982 corroborate these laws' requirements.

Washington doesn't have laws that are this proactive about Constitution education, but if the fact that these Oregon laws function to help us catch Oregon's school system with its pants down for what it's agenda is in manufacturing constitutional illiteracy, given the national coordination that goes on for curriculum planning, wouldn't we be naive to believe that the national consistency of constitutional ignorance is a result of anything but the same kind of agenda that Oregon's example demonstrates openly for us.

If you can control or guide people's thoughts, you can wield their actions or behavior. In a law based society like ours, the peoples' intellectual defense against such mind control is command of the Constitution and law education. The fact that we are so out of sorts with what's real on the basic issue of what a Republic is, should be a red flag for parents of kids in Oregon's schools to start paying some visits with their school boards about the suppression of ORS 336.057 & 067.

 

[LogicBomb]

A Democracy is two wolves and one lamb voting on what to have for dinner.

Keith

and the 2nd amendment gives the lamb the power to contest the election results

 

[Ligito]

My conclusion is that we are a republic with some democratic aspects and that all would be well if we had closed the immigration floodgates long ago, as in the post 1870 era. This nation was crated for the posterity of the founders, who could understand and support our form of government

BTW wikipedia has a lot of error and false conclusions, I only use it once in awhile if I'm in a hurry

This nation was crated and sold to China.

 

[U201491]

Hey Martini... thanks so much for putting this issue on the table. It's such a perfect canary in the mine indicator of things when we gun lover types, generally a conservative bunch, can't even agree amongst ourselves on THE most fundamental aspect of our government, i.e. what it is. I'll put it on the table that for a group of people who should be on the same page about something like this, our disconnect should sound an alarm for us. Considering the "safety in numbers" principle, if we birds of a feather can't flock together, maybe it's prudent to re-direct some of our attention on why.

You mentioned it and I believe someone else chimed in too, but the fact is is that we mostly all belong to the dubious club called high school "graduates". It's worth taking notice that even for people who most likely all took a "US Government" class in high school, their education was apparently so thin that as adults, they can't agree on what a "Republic" is. Simultaneously, the thinness of that educational impression clearly also provided fertile ground for the minds of many other high school students to be won over by the greater-good, socialistic siren songs of statism. Which of course, is another level of divide and conquer. What tyrant needs overt hostility to overthrow a nation when the people themselves can be trained from their most intellectually defenseless years to celebrate the fashion of their own greater-good subjugation.

I "graduated" from Oregon's public school system myself and after having done a lot of impromptu interviews with people I bump into in my daily errands over the years, I have observed that it's pretty consistent that public schools don't give us much opportunity to actually dig in and study founding era documents and case law. That's no revelation of course, but for Oregonians, maybe ORS 336.057 and 336.067 is. See below:

"Chapter 336 — Conduct of Schools Generally

336.057 Courses in Constitution and history of United States. In all public schools courses of instruction shall be given in the Constitution of the United States and in the history of the United States. These courses shall:
(1) Begin not later than the opening of the eighth grade and shall continue in grades 9 through 12.
(2) Be required in all public universities listed in ORS 352.002, except the Oregon Health and Science University, and in all state and local institutions that provide education for patients or inmates to an extent to be determined by the Superintendent of Public Instruction. [Formerly 336.230; 1977 c.226 §1; 1999 c.1023 §1; 2011 c.637 §114]

336.067 Topics given special emphasis in instruction. (1) In public schools special emphasis shall be given to instruction in:
(a) Honesty, morality, courtesy, obedience to law, respect for the national flag, the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Oregon, respect for parents and the home, the dignity and necessity of honest labor and other lessons that tend to promote and develop an upright and desirable citizenry. (inter alia)"

Notice how Oregon's Legislature went out of their way at the end of 067 to actually declare the purpose for enacting these laws, to wit: "to promote and develop an upright and desirable citizenry." And they deemed that to achieve that goal, public school students would need a minimum of 5 years of "courses of instruction" on the subject of the Constitution. If I were in a generous mood, I could maybe recollect a loose tally of about a month or two or actual class time where the Constitution itself was the topic of study. Most people I've talked about this issue are the reason why I say "generous" because most them have claimed even less than that.

So if classroom reality in Oregon reveals itself to be in naked, gross non-compliance with a classroom law that is intended to "to promote and develop an upright and desirable citizenry.", then what does the historical record demonstrate to us about the function or even purpose of public schools when it comes to their role in producing informed, competent citizens? As a side note, yes I have had a lengthy email conversation with the lady who is the head curriculum planner for social sciences in Oregon and she conceded, after prodding, that "we" (meaning her and her colleagues) are in her words "well aware" of 336.057. And to look at the legislative history of this law on the ORS website, you see that it was amended in 2011 to limit the Colleges that are subject to it to major State Universities. Which means this law is also fresh in the minds of Oregon's Legislators. The 1976 case of Wilson v. Chancellor and 1980 Attorney General's Opinion #7982 corroborate these laws' requirements.

Washington doesn't have laws that are this proactive about Constitution education, but if the fact that these Oregon laws function to help us catch Oregon's school system with its pants down for what it's agenda is in manufacturing constitutional illiteracy, given the national coordination that goes on for curriculum planning, wouldn't we be naive to believe that the national consistency of constitutional ignorance is a result of anything but the same kind of agenda that Oregon's example demonstrates openly for us.

If you can control or guide people's thoughts, you can wield their actions or behavior. In a law based society like ours, the peoples' intellectual defense against such mind control is command of the Constitution and law education. The fact that we are so out of sorts with what's real on the basic issue of what a Republic is, should be a red flag for parents of kids in Oregon's schools to start paying some visits with their school boards about the suppression of ORS 336.057 & 067.

No one noticed when the canary died :-/

 

[U201491]

This nation was crated and sold to China.

You are correct. What they forgot is this nation is ours and not theirs to sell !
It is time for some serious CPR.

 

[Dunerunner]

A Democracy is two wolves and one lamb voting on what to have for dinner.

" Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."

 

[U201491]

I believe the obammy lovability on your hands and knees love affair is about over. 2014 will prove it. Then we will really find out what republicans are made of.

We must wake everyone up that we can reach.
This forum is just a good starting point. 33K followers here are but a drop in the bucket.
300 + million people need to engage their brains. If they do not and let the left stay on
control in DC they will regret what they have done, but it will be too late for any resolve
except for very unpleasant resolution. There will be resolution, but not as it could have
been.
Lets work our azzes off to fix this now in a better way.

 

[U201491]

Ah, man. I am full of bubblegum either way, doesn't matter what I cite

Best fact presented today.

 

[Martini_Up]

Excellent post, getting to root of our problem, ignorance. Seems it's the root of many of our problems.

.....

336.067 Topics given special emphasis in instruction. (1) In public schools special emphasis shall be given to instruction in:
(a) Honesty, morality, courtesy, obedience to law, respect for the national flag, the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Oregon, respect for parents and the home, the dignity and necessity of honest labor and other lessons that tend to promote and develop an upright and desirable citizenry. (inter alia)"

Notice how Oregon's Legislature went out of their way at the end of 067 to actually declare the purpose for enacting these laws, to wit: "to promote and develop an upright and desirable citizenry." And they deemed that to achieve that goal, public school students would need a minimum of 5 years of "courses of instruction" on the subject of the Constitution. If I were in a generous mood, I could maybe recollect a loose tally of about a month or two or actual class time where the Constitution itself was the topic of study. Most people I've talked about this issue are the reason why I say "generous" because most them have claimed even less than that.

.....

If you can control or guide people's thoughts, you can wield their actions or behavior. In a law based society like ours, the peoples' intellectual defense against such mind control is command of the Constitution and law education. The fact that we are so out of sorts with what's real on the basic issue of what a Republic is, should be a red flag for parents of kids in Oregon's schools to start paying some visits with their school boards about the suppression of ORS 336.057 & 067.

If you can keep people ignorant of their rights, it certainly is a form of control

 

[CounterOfBeans]

Excellent post, getting to root of our problem, ignorance. Seems it's the root of many of our problems. If you can keep people ignorant of their rights, it certainly is a form of control

Indeed. What other motivation could be responsible for direct evidence of suppressing law(s) that require schools to: "to promote and develop an upright and desirable citizenry." via substantial Constitution education? Just out of curiosity, how much class time did you get to actually study the Constitution itself in 8th through 12th grade (roughly)? How about for your teenager?

With common core "feducation" oozing into school curricula right now, I'd like to propose that, for Oregonians, since ORS 336.057 & 067 are still on the books as evidence of the kind of standards that should be in place, these laws should be used as parents' battle cry against the indoctrinations that are sweeping through public schools right now. It arms their emotional indignance about what's happening in schools with actually lawful authority that compels attention and performance in public officials.

Re: "The fact that we are so out of sorts with what's real on the basic issue of what a Republic is, should be a red flag for parents of kids in Oregon's schools to start paying some visits with their school boards about the suppression of ORS 336.057 & 067.", this is what the Oregon Constitution has to say about suppressing laws at Article 1, Section 22:


"Section 22. Suspension of operation of laws. The operation of the laws shall never be suspended, except by the Authority of the Legislative Assembly."

 

[bill may]

The retards don't know we have a democratic republic. no slight intended at all

there is no democratic in the phrase "Constitutional Republic" who is the retard now? we do not have a democracy.

 

[Burt Gummer]

Now go forth and spread the truth to those that erroneously believe we're a democracy!!!!

We were supposed to be a Republic, yes, that is true.

Sadly we are far, far from being a Republic now. We are an Oligarchy in general, and more specifically defined as a Plutocracy (Rule by the Rich).

The corp US government state is run by Euro Banking Elite Families (the same Rothschilds, Morgans, dynasties that own the Federal Reserve).

As Woodrow Wilson said, "we are controlled under the duress of a few powerful men." (He was a Judas who helped sneak through the Federal Reserve Act in exchange for his Presidency, and later apologized for ruining the nation one hundred years ago.)

Anyone that believes they live in a free Republic really hasn't been paying attention at all or is in serious denial.

To accept that one is actually a subject under a Plutocracy, or a slave, is too much for the vast majority of people to bear. So it is easier for them to believe they are free, that their vote counts, that they voted for or against a President and were part of a process.

All of that is simply window dressing.

 

[evltwn]

Yawwwwwwwn........hey, as I am retired, please take me up on my offer to help you pack your belongings for a place more to your liking. Canada.....hmmm...close, but their health care is worse than ours! And those pesky gun restrictions. How about Mexico? Warmer, good food, real immigration enforcement, but they have pretty bad gun control laws too. Gee, that would also pretty much rule out South America, the entire European and Asian continents...where can a guy go to live in (relative, to be certain) freedom? Let me know...always ready to help someone so obviously unhappy HERE to relocate to a better place.