We Discuss Various Concealed Carry Firearms, how about real world calibers?

[oldcorpgunny]

As a former deputy sheriff, I would like to point out that I carried six rounds in the revolver and twelve more in speed loaders. A box of 50 was located in my patrol car. While serving in the Marines during Vietnam, my T,O & E weapon was a 1911A1 with three issued magazines (and an extra one in a pocket.) Just because you have weaponry that can hold 17 rounds and you're carrying two more magazines with 17 rounds each, how long are you going to stay engaged to an assailant before fleeing the scene? Handguns are for defensive use only, so defend yourself and get out of Dodge! Just my opinion.

 

[dangerranger60]

I'm one that believes in the caliber of the shooter matters more than the caliber of the gun.
I have seen just as many come into the morgue with small caliber holes as large ones.
If you can hit something the target cant do without, they will take the ride to the morgue.
Personally I carry a J frame 38 spl, 32cal or a small 9mm on me every day.
I am more confident that I will have these pocket size guns on me than a full size gun. I am rarely without one in my pocket. And that's more important to me than caliber.
All of these are best described as get off me / or leave me alone guns. But that is the mission of self defense. DR

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

"Come on Jack, a 22 will lodge in the lungs. Nobody needs a high powered 9mm for self defense."

Biden goes on anti-gun tirade, suggests there’s ‘no rational basis’ for 9mm pistols

Biden ranted against ownership of what he called “high-caliber weapons” while appearing to rule out the possibility of taking major executive action on guns.

nypost.com

 

[Alexx1401]

"Come on Jack, a 22 will lodge in the lungs. Nobody needs a high powered 9mm for self defense."

Biden goes on anti-gun tirade, suggests there’s ‘no rational basis’ for 9mm pistols

Biden ranted against ownership of what he called “high-caliber weapons” while appearing to rule out the possibility of taking major executive action on guns.

nypost.com

Good he should have all his security armed with only a .22. Lead by example there Brandon.

 

[dangerranger60]

Good he should have all his security armed with only a .22. Lead by example there Brandon.

Not that I'm sharing any good will toward Joe, But security/protection details and self defense are not the same mission. I also don't think of either 9mm or even 223 as being a high powered weapon. [ Joes comparison]. And Joe is an idiot.
A 22 revolver may well cause a BG to find someone else to rob, But not likely to have the same effect on a Madman who is willing to go up against a security team likely armed with sub machineguns.
I'm not advocating for 22 carry.... Just pointing out the difference in missions. DR

 

[Alexx1401]

Not that I'm sharing any good will toward Joe, But security/protection details and self defense are not the same mission. I also don't think of either 9mm or even 223 as being a high powered weapon. [ Joes comparison]. And Joe is an idiot.
A 22 revolver may well cause a BG to find someone else to rob, But not likely to have the same effect on a Madman who is willing to go up against a security team likely armed with sub machineguns.
I'm not advocating for 22 carry.... Just pointing out the difference in missions. DR

Joe should lead by example. He can give his guys full auto .22's then.

 

[Lilhigbee]

Joe should lead by example and take his demented azz to a home!!

 

[washagonian]

Here's some DATA - to serve as food for thought regarding this thread. I'm not championing any particular caliber or firearm platform. But I do like to review data when making my personal decisions. Take what you like and leave the rest.

DATA SET #1: FBI REPORT - LEO SELF DEFENSE SHOOTINGS - % OF HITS FROM SHOTS FIRED BY LEO

For Information about this data, go to:
https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2019/resource-pages/tables/table-106.xls

FBI data shows that in LEO DEFENSIVE shootings (the LEO is under attack) the average percentage of shots fired by the LEO that hit the target was 30.3% in the latest published data year of 2019.

Over a 10-year period between 2010 and 2019, the percentage of shots fired that were hits was an average of 38.7%.

If I do the math: 30.3% of an 8+1 capacity firearm is 2.72 hits. I'll round that down to 2 hits since a partial round really doesn't exist in the real world.)

For a 15+1 capacity firearm, the number of hits at 30.3% is 4.48 rounds (rounded down to 4).

Given that this is data from LEO self-defensive shootings, I'm pretty sure I won't be as accurate or capable given that I don't have the training that LEO's have. I'll be hoping to MAYBE perform at 50% of a LEO's ability, which equals a hit rate of 15.15%.

15.15% from and 8+1 firearm is 1.35 (round down to 1 hits)

15.15% from a 15+1 firearm is 2.42 (round down to 2 hits)

Holly fricking schiet! Where'd I put my 9mm, 32-round Glock Happy Stick?


DATA SET #2: STOPPING POWER COMPARISON

This data was compiled by Greg Ellifritz of Active Response Training. The blog post with the data was dated 3/18/2012. To review the post with the data, definitions used, etc., go to:
http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/an-alternate-look-at-handgun-stopping-power

Notes:

Data was collected over 10 year period.

Data was from military and law enforcement actions. No suicide or accidental shooting data is included.

Ellifritz has some typical conclusions and observations that are supported by the data. Read the article if you're interested.

Here is a table I setup to summarize the data presented in the article.




MY OWN CONCLUSIONS

It is interesting that rather than there being wide differences between calibers - the data are not that different.

This suggests that in a self-defense scenario, if the person shoots the caliber they are comfortable with, can shoot well, have trained with, yada yada, then a 380 can be as effective as a 45 in terms of stopping the threat. (Compare the 380 data to the 45 data and then consider the difference in the size and power of these two rounds).

It is true that a 380 can't equal the ballistic penetration and wound cavity statistics of a 45. But in the hands of someone who can shoot it well, that person may be just as effective at stopping a threat in a self-defense situation as someone who shoots a 45 well.

Like I said in the beginning, take what you like and leave the rest.

 

[Z-PDX]

As a former deputy sheriff, I would like to point out that I carried six rounds in the revolver and twelve more in speed loaders. A box of 50 was located in my patrol car. While serving in the Marines during Vietnam, my T,O & E weapon was a 1911A1 with three issued magazines (and an extra one in a pocket.) Just because you have weaponry that can hold 17 rounds and you're carrying two more magazines with 17 rounds each, how long are you going to stay engaged to an assailant before fleeing the scene? Handguns are for defensive use only, so defend yourself and get out of Dodge! Just my opinion.

I like it. And not really a super controversial opinion to me.

When I was on the job, I carried a 1911 and 2 spare 8-round mags.

As for fleeing the scene... Someone smarter than me pointed out that a handgun is for fighting your way back to the car to get the rifle that you should have brought along in the first place.

I have no idea how this relates to concealed carry calibers, but there it is.

 

[tourproto]

I find it hard to believe that even 25% of concealed carry people really pack full size guns and 30+ rounds everyday. I would say that in the circle of folks that I know carry daily that 90% of them carry compact guns in .380 or 9mm.

For me, it just isn't practical to carry a full size gun. My CCW is to protect me. Not to hunt down an active shooter or to get engaged in a full scale firefight. That is such a ridiculously infinitesimal scenario IMHO, that I am not going weigh myself down with 2-3 lbs of "stuff" on a daily basis.

I was always taught the gun you will carry everyday is better than the gun you leave at home because it is too inconvenient to carry. I rotate 3 guns, but 90% of the time it is either a Ruger LCP (pocket carry) or Glock 42 (appendix carry) both in .380. I can carry both guns wearing polo shorts and a t-shirt. The other 10% of the time I will carry a Hellcat (4 o'clock). But to be honest, I don't like the weight of the Hellcat with a full mag. Just too much weight. But depending on where I am going and what I will be doing, I carry it once in a while.

I have 1911s, 92FSes, S&W .357 revolvers, and would never in a million years concealed carry any of them. Way too inconvenient, but obviously some in this thread don't seem to mind the heft. I don't care about the loss of stopping power, I care about having **something** to defend myself and being able to dress normally and not worrying about printing.

To each their own.

 

[Alexx1401]

For me, it just isn't practical to carry a full size gun. My CCW is to protect me. Not to hunt down an active shooter or to get engaged in a full scale firefight. That is such a ridiculously infinitesimal scenario IMHO, that I am not going weigh myself down with 2-3 lbs of "stuff" on a daily basis.



To each their own.

I have LONG told people the same thing about guns and safes. Any is better than none. I don't always carry my "normal" 1911 with 27 rounds but, I do ALWAYS carry something.

 

[oldcorpgunny]

Just wanted to let you folks know that I just picked up 9MM ammo for $17 per box at Bi-Mart in Vancouver.

 

[tourproto]

Just wanted to let you folks know that I just picked up 9MM ammo for $17 per box at Bi-Mart in Vancouver.

Wow! That's pretty good except for the sales taxes you have to pay on that side of the river. I'll take a look at the BiMarts near me.