We are TOTALLY screwd, because when SHTF, we will have NO rights

[matt_w]

As someone who has worked on the development of current and next generation military communication equipment, I can say that civilian crap could easily be shut down, while still leaving the military communications working. GPS included.

 

[MA Duce]

As someone who has worked on the development of current and next generation military communication equipment, I can say that civilian crap could easily be shut down, while still leaving the military communications working. GPS included.

Yeah there seem to be a lot of "experts" on these forums who make it up as they go along. I'm reminded of the old Mark Twain quote:

"It's not what you don't know that upsets me, it what you think you know that ain't so."

 

[moriarty689]

Concur with the above. I don't know much about ECM, but we have Chameleons (small portable jamming devices) on virtually all the USMC vehicles in Afg right now and they work. As I understand you can broadcast through them, they just jam the receiver. If someone .gov or .mil doesn't want you to be able to use the airwaves, you won't be able too.

Proper prior planning

 

[MA Duce]

Gee....got real quiet here.

 

[VW_Factor]

As someone who has worked on the development of current and next generation military communication equipment, I can say that civilian crap could easily be shut down, while still leaving the military communications working. GPS included.

I think you seriously underestimate the capability and knowledge of some HAM operators.

 

[MA Duce]

I think you seriously underestimate the capability and knowledge of some HAM operators.

Will your transmitter transmit? Explain exactly, ( and I can follow the wave form math) how you will successfully escape detection and jamming. The Iraqis couldn't do it and they had the best equipment the Russians and French could sell them. ( Feel free to use PM if you don't want your advanced capabilities getting out.)

But if you put energy into the air it will be detected.

 

[Scott]

Just think EMP? I believe it. If a HAM operator can out preform our Military and Government I will give them props.

 

[matt_w]

I think you seriously underestimate the capability and knowledge of some HAM operators.

There were many HAM operators in my grad-level engineering classes, so I know some of them are very bright and have the know-how. There is a limit to what you can do with stuff available to the civilian population, or without spending millions on your hardware.

Not saying it's impossible to overcome, but if 95% of operators get knocked out, then that's probably good enough. Not to mention, long-range communication would probably be completely knocked out.

Not trying to put anyone down, I'm just saying this based on my education and work experiences.

 

[MA Duce]

Just think EMP? I believe it. If a HAM operator can out preform our Military and Government I will give them props.

Umm please explain to me what EMP has to do with this. I'm always up for learning.

 

[MA Duce]

There were many HAM operators in my grad-level engineering classes, so I know some of them are very bright and have the know-how. There is a limit to what you can do with stuff available to the civilian population, or without spending millions on your hardware.

Not saying it's impossible to overcome, but if 95% of operators get knocked out, then that's probably good enough. Not to mention, long-range communication would probably be completely knocked out.

Not trying to put anyone down, I'm just saying this based on my education and work experiences.

I fully agree with your assessment Matt. The HAM networks in the US provide a vital connection in times of natural disaster. And I know some operators myself. I just question the ability of any amateur operator to be capable of operating in a military SIGINT environment. I base this on the frequency agility, power, and sophistication of military equipment.

 

[viperjody]

If you google Ham Iraq, you will see the military the US military was successful at blocking SOME ham operation, but it would be a very difficult to do with the amount of transmitters out there with home antennas spreading the signal. I not saying they cant block it, I am saying they cannot block 100% for a long period of time.

Amateur Radio Activity Shut Down in Iraq:

my original topic:
Proposed Bill Gives Obama the Power to Shut Down the Internet | Maximum PC

Getting back to the beginning of my topic, if the the US governement shuts down HAM, Internet, Communication of any kind, how can we all communicate?

 

[VW_Factor]

Just think EMP? I believe it. If a HAM operator can out preform our Military and Government I will give them props.

EMP will have no effect on tube radios (I wondered about it, I asked my father who has been a HAM Extra class since before I was born for confirmation. While not the end all/be all of information about such things, I would trust his word. EMP will take out solid state equipment for sure, but tube radios are a MUCH different animal I'll look around for a study or more information behind it). Which of the HAMs I know personally, all have radios and have tube amps capable of running thousands of watts.

Beyond that, the basics of jamming a signal.. Still has to follow the laws of physics with the EMS. In order to jam it, military would have to output more power on all the same frequencies on the HAMs are running to "walk over it or jam it". Also on frequencies the military and/or government likely has not used for maybe 50 years or more? Antennas for some of the bands operated on are excessively large and cannot be easily transported. (such as inverted V antennas for 80 meter bands)

I would wish them luck with that one.

I only have basic understanding of radio stuff, but the way I see it. To shut down even a basic HAM operators let alone the advanced guys with their fancy schmansy equipment.. I just see that as a close to impossible task.

Now, for them to maybe shutdown communications in perhaps a metro area or something. That is more feasible I think. In any event, if its something you wonder about or worry about. I would implore you to read and learn about it or perhaps even think about getting a HAM licence yourself.

 

[VW_Factor]

Many people have bought or kept old vacuum tube radios for use after an EMP attack. Although vacuum tubes are thousands of times more resistant to EMP than transistors (and discrete transistors are much more resistant than integrated circuits), other components of vacuum tubes radios can be damaged by EMP.

Found here..

Electromagnetic Pulse Protection - EMP - Futurescience.com

Sounds like a tube radio can be damaged, however seemingly by EMP of magnitude it sounds like.. That the EMP would be the least of your worries at that point.

Article is good reading anyway.

 

[4Freedom]

Most of you will think I am silly for this suggestion, but I think all of you have forgot one other major asset that you can acquire in a SHTF, evil-American government takeover. That major asset would be multiple passports/identities. Yes, you may think I am bad for saying this, but seriously, SHTF scenarios usually culminate slowly; they don't just happen overnight and you could have warning. I do say USUALLY here, no guarantees of course. However, I think it would be best to have a passport to a country that will allow you to bring your firearms and is most likely to resist any American dictatorship takeover.

I know it is very hard to get multiple passports/citizenship and, obviously, having two identities can be illegal to acquire, but if SHTF and the government is rounding up people and sending them to labor camps, you will wish you had a way to leave and stay out of the country.

As far as troops rebelling against leaders, this has happened. During the coup in the Soviet Union, the soldiers were ordered to fire on the protesters and refused. This persuaded the Kremlin chronies who formed the coup to step down. However, as we saw in Tienanmen Square, soldiers can and do follow orders to massacre their own people. American soldiers have a lot more access to the outside than other soldiers around the world. I actually doubt that Americans of this generation would go along with orders to destroy the people of this country.

But what I don't doubt, is a rogue government importing mercenaries or militias from other countries, such as from the Middle East, Somalia, etc or other places around the world who would prove very loyal for high pay and would have quite a bit of animosity towards AMerican people. The UN maybe the least of your worries, compared to some of the belligerent rebels who may be put into an American military uniform.

Even in Iran, many of the people serving in the Basij milita are arabs from Syria, Lebanon and Palestinian areas. The reason they use arabs in the militias is because there is a big problem with keeping the local Persian people in the Basij militia loyal. However, there is great animosity between these outsiders and Persians who have no problem following the dictators orders to kill a people who are foreign to them. During the last protests in Iran after the election, many protesters tried talking with the Basij militants who could not understand their Persian and would respond in Arabic.


Anyhow.. If you don't have multiple citizenship, I would suggest trying to find a way.. If I could have 3 or 4 passports I would do it. More the merrier. Anyone who has money to invest in a foreign bank can get a resident permit or passport to another country.

 

[MA Duce]

VIPERJODY: Your quote: Getting back to the beginning of my topic, if the the US governement shuts down HAM, Internet, Communication of any kind, how can we all communicate?

I would be very interested in why you think this is a possibility and what you think the economic ramifications would be.

 

[EZLivin]

VIPERJODY: Your quote: Getting back to the beginning of my topic, if the the US governement shuts down HAM, Internet, Communication of any kind, how can we all communicate?

I would be very interested in why you think this is a possibility and what you think the economic ramifications would be.

Couple of comments:

1) "If the government shuts down HAM, Internet, Communication of any kind, how can we all communicate?" Answer: You can't. (But they are not going to do that.)

2) My wife is involved in disaster management at a fairly high level locally, which requires her to interact with national agencies that oversee disaster preparedness and disaster management in the US. I can tell you those agencies are strongly encouraging the public to become involved in HAM. They recognize the important role HAM plays, and are encouraging it. I plan to get my license (and equipment) soon.

 

[mjbskwim]

I would be as worried about our military, they will be over sea's, and they will bring in the UN, thats when all the bad will happen..

The UN troops will fall like our boys did in Normandy when they hit the beach.
I hope for the sake of the poor UN soldiers,that they don't bring them in.
They will be massacred.They are a foreign entity and rightfully should be massacred on our soil.

The Government can make a police state if they deem necessary.What will make this so?
Will it really be justified?
Who can know?

I do know that the National Guard has asked the question of it's soldiers,to raise hands if they would dis-arm their brothers and neighbors.

Seems the Patriots didn't raise any hands.

The government knows it has it's hands full if it wants a complete police state.
If we just keep posting statements from the founding fathers,about a tyrannical government on facebook and other sites,we will have people wondering and questioning everything the government does in a different way.


eace:

 

[joe bode]

to Viperjody:
I believe there is an Executive order which can suspend Posse Comitas even though the constitution says different.

 

[revjen45]

I do know that the National Guard has asked the question of it's soldiers,to raise hands if they would dis-arm their brothers and neighbors.

Seems the Patriots didn't raise any hands.

I would think the smart ones DID raise their hands. Why tell The Monster who it can't trust?

As far as U.N. troops: Americans will not have the same compunctions about killing the Blue Helmet Blowholes that they might with their countrymen.

 

[galtsghost]

If you google Ham Iraq, you will see the military the US military was successful at blocking SOME ham operation, but it would be a very difficult to do with the amount of transmitters out there with home antennas spreading the signal. I not saying they cant block it, I am saying they cannot block 100% for a long period of time.

Amateur Radio Activity Shut Down in Iraq:

my original topic:
Proposed Bill Gives Obama the Power to Shut Down the Internet | Maximum PC

Getting back to the beginning of my topic, if the the US governement shuts down HAM, Internet, Communication of any kind, how can we all communicate?

I was in Iraq -twice - and there is such a thing as giving a horse enough rope. Should something be left active - when there exist the capability to eliminate it entirely - assume that there are reasons, none of which are in your favor. Of course that would not matter if you were Hamming for entirely peaceful reasons.